Equitable access to advanced math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

according to who?

According to their grades in their current classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I keep trying to explain to the small-minded in the Harvard return to standardized test required model thread why the test is "biased." They need to come to this thread to understand that math instruction, from a young age, is not accessible for all--or even most, and that makes the test biased. When students are shut out from the possibility of success beginning in elementary school, there is no equity.

Is it biased in its predictive ability?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

according to who?

According to their grades in their current classes.

are you assuming or is this source you can point to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

Can you please point to the link that explains this criteria?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is where URM kids are at a significant disadvantage, with not knowing there exists an accelerated path that they can excel on. Knowing that there exists a higher level of math within their reach would inspire URM students to work harder to reach it, only if it allowed to be attained. Additionally, the recognition that mastery of current math concepts is essential for success at more advanced attainable math levels can drive students to dedicate themselves more fully to their current learning.

One kid moved in from out of state. Geometry in 7th grade, 8th grade took pre-algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

according to who?

LCPS has numbers on math test scores and later performance in math classes. They set the bar at 82% on SOL8. Somewhere around 50 students in the county for algebra 1 in 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

according to who?

LCPS has numbers on math test scores and later performance in math classes. They set the bar at 82% on SOL8. Somewhere around 50 students in the county for algebra 1 in 6th grade.

close to 200 students in lcps take algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not a single student has anything but an A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

according to who?

LCPS has numbers on math test scores and later performance in math classes. They set the bar at 82% on SOL8. Somewhere around 50 students in the county for algebra 1 in 6th grade.

close to 200 students in lcps take algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not a single student has anything but an A.

Good for them. How are those 200 students doing in BC Calc in their junior year and post-calc in their senior year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

according to who?

LCPS has numbers on math test scores and later performance in math classes. They set the bar at 82% on SOL8. Somewhere around 50 students in the county for algebra 1 in 6th grade.

close to 200 students in lcps take algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not a single student has anything but an A.

What is your source for this number?

[Anonymous]

VA DOE SOL scores show 210 8th graders took the Algebra II SOL, 100% passed. Loudoun County had 167 8th graders take the Algebra II SOL with a 94% pass rate.

[Anonymous]

VA DOE SOL site shows that FCSP has 31 6th graders take Algebra 1 and 1,600 7th graders take Algebra 1. Loudoun County had 35 6th graders and 1,682 in Algebra 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

FCPS does not restrict advanced Math, for equity or any other reasons. Fairfax doesn't accelerate quite as much as LoCo does but that's not a bad thing IMO.

It does, by preventing younger students from enrolling in advanced classes based on scores that would qualify an older student to take the same class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fcps allows HS graduation with just Algebra 2, works for those that don't get math. But using that as baseline and restricting students from taking advanced above grade math to avoid widening equity gap is where the problem is.

FCPS does not restrict advanced Math, for equity or any other reasons. Fairfax doesn't accelerate quite as much as LoCo does but that's not a bad thing IMO.

why? shouldnt they be encouraging taking on more advanced math similar to what texas does?

LoCo sends more 6th graders to Algebra I than Fairfax does. I don't think that's a good thing. Ymmv

(Texas is not sending large numbers of 6th graders to Algebra I, fyi.)

read the texas article... it appears they are enrolling students into advanced math and giving students a choice to opt-out if they find it too challenging.

"“About three years ago, around 20 to 22 percent of a cohort was enrolling in advanced math from fifth to sixth grade,” he said. “When we went to an opt-out policy, we’ve now increased that to between 35 and 40 percent of a cohort gets automatically enrolled in advanced math.”"

so in FCPS, why not enroll all six graders in algebra 1, and give the students an opt-out to step back. Instead of showing barriers to those who want to do advanced math.

I don't think you understand what "advanced" means. "Advanced", at least nationally and in the Texas case, is the math track that leads to algebra 1 in 8th grade. That's what the top 40% in Texas are placed into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

Oh they're not hidden? Then link the FCPS page where they're explained. We'll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
you seem to be misinformed. Many counties across US have kids completing algebra 1 comfortably in 6th grade. multiple sections across many middle schools in LoCo.

It is not that many. You have a lot of kids taking summer geometry after 7th grade and thus lots of algebra 2 kids in 8th grade.
The numbers were a little higher before, but then Loudoun implemented VMPI ahead of the state and the numbers dropped along with closing of school's reducing test scores.

That’s because people don’t know how it’s done.

The kid has to score 145 on the cogat math, then do a screener pre IAAT, then take the IAAT then the sol.

Neighbor’s child scored a couple of points off on ln the quant CogAT, and by the time they thought the child was ready for Algebra I and inquired there was no time to retake the CogAT.

Totally NOT transparent.

The people that are in the know plan for this ahead of time. Others suck it up with summer classes.

Still others are fine with a child being 2 years ahead of the math curriculum and not three. I suspect that most fall into this category. DS could have handled algebra in 6th but is fine taking it next year. I wouldn’t want him taking the class virtually and I don’t think getting up early to be on the bus to MS and then having to be transported to his ES is a great work around.

The point is not that some parents don’t want to accelerate their child, but that the criteria is hidden and only serves the ones that know. Just because you know, doesn’t mean that you’ll take the opportunity. It actually helps you make an informed decision.

Fair point.

No it's not. The criteria to take Algebra in 6th grade isn't hidden. It's very high and the class is inappropriate for the vast majority of students, whether or not they are URM.

according to who?

LCPS has numbers on math test scores and later performance in math classes. They set the bar at 82% on SOL8. Somewhere around 50 students in the county for algebra 1 in 6th grade.

close to 200 students in lcps take algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not a single student has anything but an A.

Good for them. How are those 200 students doing in BC Calc in their junior year and post-calc in their senior year?

Given that they're all A students, there's no reason to assume their performance would significantly decline. More importantly, unless they're choosing to drop down a grade level, whatever level they get is still better than being a year behind where they are.