Where do normal kids go to college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JMU, VCU, Christopher Newport, in some cases VA Tech, Mason, West Virginia, and some other OOS schools (College of Charleston, USF, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.). Honestly, there are lots of options for kids who might not have the highest stats but did okay. It's just that this board seems obsessed with only the top 50.

+1,000

I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been lurking on this forum for about a week, seeking information, and finally felt compelled to share my thoughts.

I have no issue with parents wanting the absolute best opportunities for their children. God knows I do, and there's nothing inherently wrong with both valuing and pursuing a T-50 institution personally or for your child. Generally - or certainly on this forum however - there seems to be a particularly strong focus on those institutions, sometimes to the complete disrespect of anything else. I've lived in the DC region since 1993, but grew up in Philadelphia in a solidly middle class family with first-generation college graduate parents. The two areas couldn't be any different. Few of my closest neighborhood friends graduated from college, and my family would've been just as proud if I went to East Stroudsburg or UPenn. Some might call that a low bar. We just view it as casting a much wider net to the end of what makes one successful.

I'm no mathematician, but of all the college students in this country, my guess is that less than 10% attend T-50 institutions. Are the rest of those colleges, where the majority of our children attend, garbage and not worthy of attending for those whom they may be the only option? Neither life nor success is linear, so we can't act like only high-achieving kids who attend the most highly regarded institutions, are the only people who will ultimately be successful.

I graduated from a T-25 state flagship, and got my masters degree from a T-25 private. I have done well in my career (professionally and from an earnings perspective), but I have friends and former classmates who've done "better" in those categories. Of the most successful folks I've worked with, almost none graduated from schools with the prestige of my alma maters. The CEO of a former employer graduated from a SUNY school. Another went to Louisville, and another, the University of Richmond. My current boss graduated from Miami of Ohio, and past bosses/colleagues have graduated from JMU, Frostburg, and small directional state schools in the midwest.

There's no question that prestigious schools can open doors but the most successful people, the real achievers and impact-makers, are those one's who work their tails off, and make the absolute most of every opportunity that they have.

Our second and youngest is currently sweating out the RD college acceptance season (actually, we are probably more than them). They (using the non-binary term only to protect their identity) have a 3.2 GPA, 1200 SATs, and documented challenges with ADD and executive functioning (they had an IEP since 7th grade). They have two acceptances in hand - one from a small in-state school; one from a mid-tier private in the Northeast with substantial merit $; one waitlist from a large state school; and three rejections from a large sought after in-state school, a large OOS, and a selective STEM-focused private in the Northeast that we knew was a stretch. They are awaiting what we think is their first choice - another STEM-focused private in the Northeast, and another large in-state. They are exceptionally bright and more importantly, an exceptional person in every aspect (kind, respectful, hard-working, honest, independent thinker, values family). They have yet to figure out who they are, and how to tap into their full potential. Our message to them is that wherever you end up, that is where you should be, and do everything you can to maximize the opportunity.

Its not about groupthink, and I certainly don't believe that we all must value and pursue the same things for ourselves and our families. But I do believe that for our kids sake, we should evangelize a far less narrow definition of, and potential path to, success.

Thank you for sharing your view. I too am a big fan of widening the search. I felt this way a long time, but what really confirmed it for me was watching the trouble some very smart friends with doctorates from excełlent schools went through to get a tenure track job. It showed me that even colleges you never heard of are getting professors who have excellent credentials.

[Anonymous]

Look at UNCW, JMU, Delaware, URI, UNH, Umass Amherst, Miami Ohio, College of Charleston

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JMU, VCU, Christopher Newport, in some cases VA Tech, Mason, West Virginia, and some other OOS schools (College of Charleston, USF, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.). Honestly, there are lots of options for kids who might not have the highest stats but did okay. It's just that this board seems obsessed with only the top 50.

+1,000

I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been lurking on this forum for about a week, seeking information, and finally felt compelled to share my thoughts.

I have no issue with parents wanting the absolute best opportunities for their children. God knows I do, and there's nothing inherently wrong with both valuing and pursuing a T-50 institution personally or for your child. Generally - or certainly on this forum however - there seems to be a particularly strong focus on those institutions, sometimes to the complete disrespect of anything else. I've lived in the DC region since 1993, but grew up in Philadelphia in a solidly middle class family with first-generation college graduate parents. The two areas couldn't be any different. Few of my closest neighborhood friends graduated from college, and my family would've been just as proud if I went to East Stroudsburg or UPenn. Some might call that a low bar. We just view it as casting a much wider net to the end of what makes one successful.

I'm no mathematician, but of all the college students in this country, my guess is that less than 10% attend T-50 institutions. Are the rest of those colleges, where the majority of our children attend, garbage and not worthy of attending for those whom they may be the only option? Neither life nor success is linear, so we can't act like only high-achieving kids who attend the most highly regarded institutions, are the only people who will ultimately be successful.

I graduated from a T-25 state flagship, and got my masters degree from a T-25 private. I have done well in my career (professionally and from an earnings perspective), but I have friends and former classmates who've done "better" in those categories. Of the most successful folks I've worked with, almost none graduated from schools with the prestige of my alma maters. The CEO of a former employer graduated from a SUNY school. Another went to Louisville, and another, the University of Richmond. My current boss graduated from Miami of Ohio, and past bosses/colleagues have graduated from JMU, Frostburg, and small directional state schools in the midwest.

There's no question that prestigious schools can open doors but the most successful people, the real achievers and impact-makers, are those one's who work their tails off, and make the absolute most of every opportunity that they have.

Our second and youngest is currently sweating out the RD college acceptance season (actually, we are probably more than them). They (using the non-binary term only to protect their identity) have a 3.2 GPA, 1200 SATs, and documented challenges with ADD and executive functioning (they had an IEP since 7th grade). They have two acceptances in hand - one from a small in-state school; one from a mid-tier private in the Northeast with substantial merit $; one waitlist from a large state school; and three rejections from a large sought after in-state school, a large OOS, and a selective STEM-focused private in the Northeast that we knew was a stretch. They are awaiting what we think is their first choice - another STEM-focused private in the Northeast, and another large in-state. They are exceptionally bright and more importantly, an exceptional person in every aspect (kind, respectful, hard-working, honest, independent thinker, values family). They have yet to figure out who they are, and how to tap into their full potential. Our message to them is that wherever you end up, that is where you should be, and do everything you can to maximize the opportunity.

Its not about groupthink, and I certainly don't believe that we all must value and pursue the same things for ourselves and our families. But I do believe that for our kids sake, we should evangelize a far less narrow definition of, and potential path to, success.

Thank you for sharing your view. I too am a big fan of widening the search. I felt this way a long time, but what really confirmed it for me was watching the trouble some very smart friends with doctorates from excełlent schools went through to get a tenure track job. It showed me that even colleges you never heard of are getting professors who have excellent credentials.

This is a good point. The PhD glut has been a boon to lower ranked schools, particularly in the liberal arts. Harvard PhDs will stab each other in the back for a job at like Bama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JMU, VCU, Christopher Newport, in some cases VA Tech, Mason, West Virginia, and some other OOS schools (College of Charleston, USF, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.). Honestly, there are lots of options for kids who might not have the highest stats but did okay. It's just that this board seems obsessed with only the top 50.

+1,000

I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been lurking on this forum for about a week, seeking information, and finally felt compelled to share my thoughts.

I have no issue with parents wanting the absolute best opportunities for their children. God knows I do, and there's nothing inherently wrong with both valuing and pursuing a T-50 institution personally or for your child. Generally - or certainly on this forum however - there seems to be a particularly strong focus on those institutions, sometimes to the complete disrespect of anything else. I've lived in the DC region since 1993, but grew up in Philadelphia in a solidly middle class family with first-generation college graduate parents. The two areas couldn't be any different. Few of my closest neighborhood friends graduated from college, and my family would've been just as proud if I went to East Stroudsburg or UPenn. Some might call that a low bar. We just view it as casting a much wider net to the end of what makes one successful.

I'm no mathematician, but of all the college students in this country, my guess is that less than 10% attend T-50 institutions. Are the rest of those colleges, where the majority of our children attend, garbage and not worthy of attending for those whom they may be the only option? Neither life nor success is linear, so we can't act like only high-achieving kids who attend the most highly regarded institutions, are the only people who will ultimately be successful.

I graduated from a T-25 state flagship, and got my masters degree from a T-25 private. I have done well in my career (professionally and from an earnings perspective), but I have friends and former classmates who've done "better" in those categories. Of the most successful folks I've worked with, almost none graduated from schools with the prestige of my alma maters. The CEO of a former employer graduated from a SUNY school. Another went to Louisville, and another, the University of Richmond. My current boss graduated from Miami of Ohio, and past bosses/colleagues have graduated from JMU, Frostburg, and small directional state schools in the midwest.

There's no question that prestigious schools can open doors but the most successful people, the real achievers and impact-makers, are those one's who work their tails off, and make the absolute most of every opportunity that they have.

Our second and youngest is currently sweating out the RD college acceptance season (actually, we are probably more than them). They (using the non-binary term only to protect their identity) have a 3.2 GPA, 1200 SATs, and documented challenges with ADD and executive functioning (they had an IEP since 7th grade). They have two acceptances in hand - one from a small in-state school; one from a mid-tier private in the Northeast with substantial merit $; one waitlist from a large state school; and three rejections from a large sought after in-state school, a large OOS, and a selective STEM-focused private in the Northeast that we knew was a stretch. They are awaiting what we think is their first choice - another STEM-focused private in the Northeast, and another large in-state. They are exceptionally bright and more importantly, an exceptional person in every aspect (kind, respectful, hard-working, honest, independent thinker, values family). They have yet to figure out who they are, and how to tap into their full potential. Our message to them is that wherever you end up, that is where you should be, and do everything you can to maximize the opportunity.

Its not about groupthink, and I certainly don't believe that we all must value and pursue the same things for ourselves and our families. But I do believe that for our kids sake, we should evangelize a far less narrow definition of, and potential path to, success.

Look PP, there’s nothing inherently wrong with your post. But what are you expecting? You are on a DMV board with a strong representation from NYC and NE. Many of the moms and dads on these boards went to ivy or T20. They are UMC to wealthy professionals and they want the same or similar path for their kids. So, yes this board discussion skews in that direction. I actually think this board has become less ivy focused than it was 6 years ago. So if you think the conversations are one dimensional now, it was T50 back then. It was ivy or bust.

No, there is nothing wrong with the other colleges in America. A good education can be had in most places.

I DO have a problem with the parents who come on this board feigning real or imaged ignorance claiming ‘my DC only gets B’s and they have a 1200, Where oh where can they go??!!’ Please the college in the next city or county or state, or any of the other 2000 colleges in America, don’t be so helpless.

DP. I agree and you make a good point that DCUM, in and of itself, probably isn't "normal."

What do you think has caused that shift? Is it that it's even harder or more random to get into an Ivy? Or that the costs seem over-the-top for even the DCUM crowd? Something else?

To OP's question, though, I think the answer is: "Normal kids go anywhere but Ivy or Top 20" -- regardless of grades or test scores. An academic (or athletic) all-star is not "normal." And in no MC household I know is 80-90K/yr "worth it" and for families with HHI less than that kind of COA (and there are plenty of us)....even state flagships can be a stretch, even if we've "saved" for it.

We're just glad there are all those other choices and that our DC has found one they are super excited to attend, despite what some family members and teachers may think is too low of a destination. DC recognizes she's likely an over-achiever, that grade-inflation is real, test scores are optional or gigged, and yet has decent grasp on what's a realistic and affordable destination for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JMU, VCU, Christopher Newport, in some cases VA Tech, Mason, West Virginia, and some other OOS schools (College of Charleston, USF, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.). Honestly, there are lots of options for kids who might not have the highest stats but did okay. It's just that this board seems obsessed with only the top 50.

+1,000

I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been lurking on this forum for about a week, seeking information, and finally felt compelled to share my thoughts.

I have no issue with parents wanting the absolute best opportunities for their children. God knows I do, and there's nothing inherently wrong with both valuing and pursuing a T-50 institution personally or for your child. Generally - or certainly on this forum however - there seems to be a particularly strong focus on those institutions, sometimes to the complete disrespect of anything else. I've lived in the DC region since 1993, but grew up in Philadelphia in a solidly middle class family with first-generation college graduate parents. The two areas couldn't be any different. Few of my closest neighborhood friends graduated from college, and my family would've been just as proud if I went to East Stroudsburg or UPenn. Some might call that a low bar. We just view it as casting a much wider net to the end of what makes one successful.

I'm no mathematician, but of all the college students in this country, my guess is that less than 10% attend T-50 institutions. Are the rest of those colleges, where the majority of our children attend, garbage and not worthy of attending for those whom they may be the only option? Neither life nor success is linear, so we can't act like only high-achieving kids who attend the most highly regarded institutions, are the only people who will ultimately be successful.

I graduated from a T-25 state flagship, and got my masters degree from a T-25 private. I have done well in my career (professionally and from an earnings perspective), but I have friends and former classmates who've done "better" in those categories. Of the most successful folks I've worked with, almost none graduated from schools with the prestige of my alma maters. The CEO of a former employer graduated from a SUNY school. Another went to Louisville, and another, the University of Richmond. My current boss graduated from Miami of Ohio, and past bosses/colleagues have graduated from JMU, Frostburg, and small directional state schools in the midwest.

There's no question that prestigious schools can open doors but the most successful people, the real achievers and impact-makers, are those one's who work their tails off, and make the absolute most of every opportunity that they have.

Our second and youngest is currently sweating out the RD college acceptance season (actually, we are probably more than them). They (using the non-binary term only to protect their identity) have a 3.2 GPA, 1200 SATs, and documented challenges with ADD and executive functioning (they had an IEP since 7th grade). They have two acceptances in hand - one from a small in-state school; one from a mid-tier private in the Northeast with substantial merit $; one waitlist from a large state school; and three rejections from a large sought after in-state school, a large OOS, and a selective STEM-focused private in the Northeast that we knew was a stretch. They are awaiting what we think is their first choice - another STEM-focused private in the Northeast, and another large in-state. They are exceptionally bright and more importantly, an exceptional person in every aspect (kind, respectful, hard-working, honest, independent thinker, values family). They have yet to figure out who they are, and how to tap into their full potential. Our message to them is that wherever you end up, that is where you should be, and do everything you can to maximize the opportunity.

Its not about groupthink, and I certainly don't believe that we all must value and pursue the same things for ourselves and our families. But I do believe that for our kids sake, we should evangelize a far less narrow definition of, and potential path to, success.

Look PP, there’s nothing inherently wrong with your post. But what are you expecting? You are on a DMV board with a strong representation from NYC and NE. Many of the moms and dads on these boards went to ivy or T20. They are UMC to wealthy professionals and they want the same or similar path for their kids. So, yes this board discussion skews in that direction. I actually think this board has become less ivy focused than it was 6 years ago. So if you think the conversations are one dimensional now, it was T50 back then. It was ivy or bust.

No, there is nothing wrong with the other colleges in America. A good education can be had in most places.

I DO have a problem with the parents who come on this board feigning real or imaged ignorance claiming ‘my DC only gets B’s and they have a 1200, Where oh where can they go??!!’ Please the college in the next city or county or state, or any of the other 2000 colleges in America, don’t be so helpless.

I know exactly 2 people (3 if I count one guy I worked with 10 years ago who went to Harvard but ended up a career civil servant) who went to an Ivy or top 10. And of those, one of them regretted it in a big way. Most around where I am went to UVA, Tech, JMU, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In state schools
Elon
Clemson
University of South Carolina
LMU
LSU
University of Kentucky
Emerson
… look at schools ranked in the 75-150

Not anyore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In state schools
Elon
Clemson
University of South Carolina
LMU
LSU
University of Kentucky
Emerson
… look at schools ranked in the 75-150

Not anyore.

Kentucky has a 21-28 ACT mid-range and over a 90% acceptance rate. A "normal" kid can still get in there with ease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love that the poster above actually listed Northern Michigan. My daughter applied and got in there, but has made the decision that it is just too far from home. That said, it seems like a nice place to spend 4 years.

Im from there. If you are from the DMV , you won’t make it. If you are from the North Pole, you MiGHT make it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love that the poster above actually listed Northern Michigan. My daughter applied and got in there, but has made the decision that it is just too far from home. That said, it seems like a nice place to spend 4 years.

Im from there. If you are from the DMV , you won’t make it. If you are from the North Pole, you MiGHT make it.

Yes, you have to be willing to deal with cold. It is the upper peninsula of MI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:JMU, VCU, Christopher Newport, in some cases VA Tech, Mason, West Virginia, and some other OOS schools (College of Charleston, USF, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.). Honestly, there are lots of options for kids who might not have the highest stats but did okay. It's just that this board seems obsessed with only the top 50.

+1,000

I apologize for the length of this post, but I've been lurking on this forum for about a week, seeking information, and finally felt compelled to share my thoughts.

I have no issue with parents wanting the absolute best opportunities for their children. God knows I do, and there's nothing inherently wrong with both valuing and pursuing a T-50 institution personally or for your child. Generally - or certainly on this forum however - there seems to be a particularly strong focus on those institutions, sometimes to the complete disrespect of anything else. I've lived in the DC region since 1993, but grew up in Philadelphia in a solidly middle class family with first-generation college graduate parents. The two areas couldn't be any different. Few of my closest neighborhood friends graduated from college, and my family would've been just as proud if I went to East Stroudsburg or UPenn. Some might call that a low bar. We just view it as casting a much wider net to the end of what makes one successful.

I'm no mathematician, but of all the college students in this country, my guess is that less than 10% attend T-50 institutions. Are the rest of those colleges, where the majority of our children attend, garbage and not worthy of attending for those whom they may be the only option? Neither life nor success is linear, so we can't act like only high-achieving kids who attend the most highly regarded institutions, are the only people who will ultimately be successful.

I graduated from a T-25 state flagship, and got my masters degree from a T-25 private. I have done well in my career (professionally and from an earnings perspective), but I have friends and former classmates who've done "better" in those categories. Of the most successful folks I've worked with, almost none graduated from schools with the prestige of my alma maters. The CEO of a former employer graduated from a SUNY school. Another went to Louisville, and another, the University of Richmond. My current boss graduated from Miami of Ohio, and past bosses/colleagues have graduated from JMU, Frostburg, and small directional state schools in the midwest.

There's no question that prestigious schools can open doors but the most successful people, the real achievers and impact-makers, are those one's who work their tails off, and make the absolute most of every opportunity that they have.

Our second and youngest is currently sweating out the RD college acceptance season (actually, we are probably more than them). They (using the non-binary term only to protect their identity) have a 3.2 GPA, 1200 SATs, and documented challenges with ADD and executive functioning (they had an IEP since 7th grade). They have two acceptances in hand - one from a small in-state school; one from a mid-tier private in the Northeast with substantial merit $; one waitlist from a large state school; and three rejections from a large sought after in-state school, a large OOS, and a selective STEM-focused private in the Northeast that we knew was a stretch. They are awaiting what we think is their first choice - another STEM-focused private in the Northeast, and another large in-state. They are exceptionally bright and more importantly, an exceptional person in every aspect (kind, respectful, hard-working, honest, independent thinker, values family). They have yet to figure out who they are, and how to tap into their full potential. Our message to them is that wherever you end up, that is where you should be, and do everything you can to maximize the opportunity.

Its not about groupthink, and I certainly don't believe that we all must value and pursue the same things for ourselves and our families. But I do believe that for our kids sake, we should evangelize a far less narrow definition of, and potential path to, success.

Thank you for sharing your view. I too am a big fan of widening the search. I felt this way a long time, but what really confirmed it for me was watching the trouble some very smart friends with doctorates from excełlent schools went through to get a tenure track job. It showed me that even colleges you never heard of are getting professors who have excellent credentials.

+1 My DD goes to Juniata, which some here sneer at, but she's having a good experience and currently working on research with a professor who went to Brown (undegrad) and Yale (grad).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In state schools
Elon
Clemson
University of South Carolina
LMU
LSU
University of Kentucky
Emerson
… look at schools ranked in the 75-150

Those are in red states hell no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In state schools
Elon
Clemson
University of South Carolina
LMU
LSU
University of Kentucky
Emerson
… look at schools ranked in the 75-150

Those are in red states hell no

Also known as the states everyone is moving to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work at the University of Missouri. Admissions are guaranteed for 24 ACT / 1160 SAT and a 2.0+ GPA. This is the state flagship; other state schools are even easier. It's crazy to me as a native New Yorker that so many locals send their talented, accomplished kids to Mizzou. But then they are having a good time, graduating without debt and still getting into law and med school, so maybe I am the crazy one. Still trying to figure that out.

Weird that ppl send their kids here given the peer group.

I have no knowledge of Mizzou but why can't people just understand that kids can have accomplishments, be successful, go to grad schools, make money . . . whatever your definition of success is . . . from any school. I get that some may provide some intangibles (networks or pathways to super selective careers). But that is the exception, not the rule. Yes, even for kids at Mizzou.

Couldn't agree more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In state schools
Elon
Clemson
University of South Carolina
LMU
LSU
University of Kentucky
Emerson
… look at schools ranked in the 75-150

Those are in red states hell no

Also known as the states everyone is moving to.

And many will regret

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In state schools
Elon
Clemson
University of South Carolina
LMU
LSU
University of Kentucky
Emerson
… look at schools ranked in the 75-150

Those are in red states hell no

Also known as the states everyone is moving to.

They're moving to Mississippi, Alabama and West by God Virginia?