Drs firing patients

[Anonymous]

I am a veterinarian. I fire clients when they are abusive to my staff. They get a copy of their records and a very polite notice stating we hope they can find a practice that better aligns with their standards and needs....They are given a list of practices in the area accepting new clients, along with a list of emergency clinics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can legal action be taken? What circumstances would warrant this?

Doctor here. I once had to fire a patient because he was violent toward me and staff. This was 20 years ago.

This is extreme and well warranted.
This is more about getting rid of a patient without reason. It’s happening
I can’t help but feel it comes down to money.
Low, Medicare, reimbursements, unlikely to get paid, that type of thing

Disagree-doctors build their practices around accepting Medicare/medicaid/certain insurances (or not accepting them.) they aren’t going to them fire patients with that insurance for no reason! Much more likely is that the patient is a repeated no show/rude/non-compliant and doesn’t adhere to agree upon treatment plan or office procedure.

What the dr perceives as rude is a judgement call. Or is it the pt appears threatening because they’re knowledgeable? So a doctor can say a patient is rude and get rid of them when that may not be the case at all.
I went to numerous specialist with a life-threatening condition and was consistently treated poorly and was told I was a problem and not to come back. I came to find out. I had a very rare condition that there is no research on And it was “ the worst thing you could walk through the door with”. This was told to me by a friend who is in the same field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can legal action be taken? What circumstances would warrant this?

Doctor here. I once had to fire a patient because he was violent toward me and staff. This was 20 years ago.

This is extreme and well warranted.
This is more about getting rid of a patient without reason. It’s happening
I can’t help but feel it comes down to money.
Low, Medicare, reimbursements, unlikely to get paid, that type of thing

Disagree-doctors build their practices around accepting Medicare/medicaid/certain insurances (or not accepting them.) they aren’t going to them fire patients with that insurance for no reason! Much more likely is that the patient is a repeated no show/rude/non-compliant and doesn’t adhere to agree upon treatment plan or office procedure.

What the dr perceives as rude is a judgement call. Or is it the pt appears threatening because they’re knowledgeable? So a doctor can say a patient is rude and get rid of them when that may not be the case at all.
I went to numerous specialist with a life-threatening condition and was consistently treated poorly and was told I was a problem and not to come back. I came to find out. I had a very rare condition that there is no research on And it was “ the worst thing you could walk through the door with”. This was told to me by a friend who is in the same field.

Okay, but this is just a business. If your mechanic doesn't like you asking a lot of questions because you are more knowledgeable than they are about cars, wouldn't you want a different mechanic? There is no benefit to going to a mechanic when you have superior knowledge or skills.

The key focus of the practice of medicine is providing good medical care. That requires people to be able to work together, and if either party thinks you can't, then you can't (emergency room needs aside). And your values about what good medical care looks like has to be similar enough to work together, too. Either party can make that call -- you can leave, or they can leave the relationship. It's just a business, and doctors aren't special. They don't have to sit and listen to you, or argue with you, or do what you tell them to do -- certainly not if they don't think it is a productive relationship.

None of the doctors you fired were going to be able to provide you the services you wanted and needed, and you knew more than they did. No lose to you to leave them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can legal action be taken? What circumstances would warrant this?

Doctor here. I once had to fire a patient because he was violent toward me and staff. This was 20 years ago.

This is extreme and well warranted.
This is more about getting rid of a patient without reason. It’s happening
I can’t help but feel it comes down to money.
Low, Medicare, reimbursements, unlikely to get paid, that type of thing

Disagree-doctors build their practices around accepting Medicare/medicaid/certain insurances (or not accepting them.) they aren’t going to them fire patients with that insurance for no reason! Much more likely is that the patient is a repeated no show/rude/non-compliant and doesn’t adhere to agree upon treatment plan or office procedure.

What the dr perceives as rude is a judgement call. Or is it the pt appears threatening because they’re knowledgeable? So a doctor can say a patient is rude and get rid of them when that may not be the case at all.
I went to numerous specialist with a life-threatening condition and was consistently treated poorly and was told I was a problem and not to come back. I came to find out. I had a very rare condition that there is no research on And it was “ the worst thing you could walk through the door with”. This was told to me by a friend who is in the same field.

Okay, but this is just a business. If your mechanic doesn't like you asking a lot of questions because you are more knowledgeable than they are about cars, wouldn't you want a different mechanic? There is no benefit to going to a mechanic when you have superior knowledge or skills.

The key focus of the practice of medicine is providing good medical care. That requires people to be able to work together, and if either party thinks you can't, then you can't (emergency room needs aside). And your values about what good medical care looks like has to be similar enough to work together, too. Either party can make that call -- you can leave, or they can leave the relationship. It's just a business, and doctors aren't special. They don't have to sit and listen to you, or argue with you, or do what you tell them to do -- certainly not if they don't think it is a productive relationship.

None of the doctors you fired were going to be able to provide you the services you wanted and needed, and you knew more than they did. No lose to you to leave them.

As a doctor I honestly kind of agree here. I do put my patient relationships in a special category and I feel much more responsible for my patients health and well being than I’m sure my mechanic feels for my person health and well being. But, as you say, it’s a business. If someone thinks they know more than me about my speciality and wants to ignore my recommendations in favor of their own plans, that’s their choice of course. It’s their body and their life. But it’s not a productive use of either of our time if they routinely choose to not adhere to my treatment plan or undergo my recommended diagnostics. And it puts me in the position of having a patient who might have a bad outcome, because they didn’t follow my recommendations, that they can then try to turn around back on me- maybe not successfully in a legal sense, but they could try, and it would still affect my professional reputation. Because they won’t say “I refused a C section for 3 hours and then when they finally performed it after I consented , it was too late and my baby had suffered a birth injury”. They’ll say “my baby has CP because the doctor didn’t take it out in time and I’m gonna sue”. And that’s what people hear in the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors really only fire patients for what they believe is a liability to their malpractice insurance. But I could see how questions could be seen as threatening by some doctors.

How is asking doctors questions about your care or prescribed medications threatening?

Questions about care is not threatening, but if the questions are because the patient is not trusting my prescribed treatment plan or diagnostic work up as appropriate, then that is not a therapeutic relationship that’s going to benefit them. “You have ordered an abdominal CT, might that not lead to cancer? Can you promise me it won’t lead to cancer?” is also tricky because no of course I can’t, I can just say that I believe the benefit of this tool outweighs the risk for you at this time. If the patient clearly disagrees, then that’s fine, but I’m not going to take on the liability of a patient who refuses my diagnostic work up or, who agrees to it but says they’re going to come after me if it leads to cancer. It’s not worth the headache. Find a doctor you trust and if that’s not me, I get it and that’s fine.

I got news for you. There are no patients who trust a Dr. and that includes your patients. They’re all verifying everything you tell them.
Every patient knows you’re not in it because you care because the odds are you don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can legal action be taken? What circumstances would warrant this?

Doctor here. I once had to fire a patient because he was violent toward me and staff. This was 20 years ago.

This is extreme and well warranted.
This is more about getting rid of a patient without reason. It’s happening
I can’t help but feel it comes down to money.
Low, Medicare, reimbursements, unlikely to get paid, that type of thing

Disagree-doctors build their practices around accepting Medicare/medicaid/certain insurances (or not accepting them.) they aren’t going to them fire patients with that insurance for no reason! Much more likely is that the patient is a repeated no show/rude/non-compliant and doesn’t adhere to agree upon treatment plan or office procedure.

What the dr perceives as rude is a judgement call. Or is it the pt appears threatening because they’re knowledgeable? So a doctor can say a patient is rude and get rid of them when that may not be the case at all.
I went to numerous specialist with a life-threatening condition and was consistently treated poorly and was told I was a problem and not to come back. I came to find out. I had a very rare condition that there is no research on And it was “ the worst thing you could walk through the door with”. This was told to me by a friend who is in the same field.

Okay, but this is just a business. If your mechanic doesn't like you asking a lot of questions because you are more knowledgeable than they are about cars, wouldn't you want a different mechanic? There is no benefit to going to a mechanic when you have superior knowledge or skills.

The key focus of the practice of medicine is providing good medical care. That requires people to be able to work together, and if either party thinks you can't, then you can't (emergency room needs aside). And your values about what good medical care looks like has to be similar enough to work together, too. Either party can make that call -- you can leave, or they can leave the relationship. It's just a business, and doctors aren't special. They don't have to sit and listen to you, or argue with you, or do what you tell them to do -- certainly not if they don't think it is a productive relationship.

None of the doctors you fired were going to be able to provide you the services you wanted and needed, and you knew more than they did. No lose to you to leave them.

Drs need to leave their thin skin at home. People come to you with a problem looking for help and if you’re not able you can find fault with the patient. You do them a favor by, in a face saving way, tell them you don’t know how to help them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors really only fire patients for what they believe is a liability to their malpractice insurance. But I could see how questions could be seen as threatening by some doctors.

How is asking doctors questions about your care or prescribed medications threatening?

Questions about care is not threatening, but if the questions are because the patient is not trusting my prescribed treatment plan or diagnostic work up as appropriate, then that is not a therapeutic relationship that’s going to benefit them. “You have ordered an abdominal CT, might that not lead to cancer? Can you promise me it won’t lead to cancer?” is also tricky because no of course I can’t, I can just say that I believe the benefit of this tool outweighs the risk for you at this time. If the patient clearly disagrees, then that’s fine, but I’m not going to take on the liability of a patient who refuses my diagnostic work up or, who agrees to it but says they’re going to come after me if it leads to cancer. It’s not worth the headache. Find a doctor you trust and if that’s not me, I get it and that’s fine.

I got news for you. There are no patients who trust a Dr. and that includes your patients. They’re all verifying everything you tell them.
Every patient knows you’re not in it because you care because the odds are you don’t.

Believe me, the vast majority of doctors care. We are human. And god knows we could make the same amount with WAY less schooling and student debt if we had chosen to, because on average we are pretty smart or else we wouldn’t have been able to get into a decent residency. But with attitudes like yours, it makes it harder and harder for the good doctors who do care to want to stay in practice. Pretty much everyone I know wants out at the 20 year mark (so, before age 50) once debts are paid and retirement saved up. Because it’s so, so draining to try so hard to help people and be ridiculed and eye rolled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can legal action be taken? What circumstances would warrant this?

Doctor here. I once had to fire a patient because he was violent toward me and staff. This was 20 years ago.

This is extreme and well warranted.
This is more about getting rid of a patient without reason. It’s happening
I can’t help but feel it comes down to money.
Low, Medicare, reimbursements, unlikely to get paid, that type of thing

Disagree-doctors build their practices around accepting Medicare/medicaid/certain insurances (or not accepting them.) they aren’t going to them fire patients with that insurance for no reason! Much more likely is that the patient is a repeated no show/rude/non-compliant and doesn’t adhere to agree upon treatment plan or office procedure.

What the dr perceives as rude is a judgement call. Or is it the pt appears threatening because they’re knowledgeable? So a doctor can say a patient is rude and get rid of them when that may not be the case at all.
I went to numerous specialist with a life-threatening condition and was consistently treated poorly and was told I was a problem and not to come back. I came to find out. I had a very rare condition that there is no research on And it was “ the worst thing you could walk through the door with”. This was told to me by a friend who is in the same field.

Okay, but this is just a business. If your mechanic doesn't like you asking a lot of questions because you are more knowledgeable than they are about cars, wouldn't you want a different mechanic? There is no benefit to going to a mechanic when you have superior knowledge or skills.

The key focus of the practice of medicine is providing good medical care. That requires people to be able to work together, and if either party thinks you can't, then you can't (emergency room needs aside). And your values about what good medical care looks like has to be similar enough to work together, too. Either party can make that call -- you can leave, or they can leave the relationship. It's just a business, and doctors aren't special. They don't have to sit and listen to you, or argue with you, or do what you tell them to do -- certainly not if they don't think it is a productive relationship.

None of the doctors you fired were going to be able to provide you the services you wanted and needed, and you knew more than they did. No lose to you to leave them.

Drs need to leave their thin skin at home. People come to you with a problem looking for help and if you’re not able you can find fault with the patient. You do them a favor by, in a face saving way, tell them you don’t know how to help them.

That's not thin skin, that's practicality. You're projecting.

If we can work together, great. If we can't, then we can't. Simple. Neither of us should be chasing the other around the table begging anyone to agree.

Business transaction, right? Just a job like any other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a doctor gets annoyed by an educated patient askin 1-3 relevant questions, then she/he needs to see a psychiatrist. Dr Wrong needs help becoming Dr. Right.

Many doctors would tell you there's no such thing as an "educated patient." The very idea threatens a LOT of MD egos.

I got fired for asking too many questions, and being upset when I was ignored and the ignorance of the practice led to actual harm on my part. They're lucky I was too sick to sue.

Some doctors, like the people they are, really ain't sh*t.

Looks like we found the pile of pubmed citation poster. Too sick to sue, that’s a new one. Such a physical order to identity a lawyer actually willing to take on a case with merit.

Drink less and then try your comment again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors really only fire patients for what they believe is a liability to their malpractice insurance. But I could see how questions could be seen as threatening by some doctors.

How is asking doctors questions about your care or prescribed medications threatening?

Questions about care is not threatening, but if the questions are because the patient is not trusting my prescribed treatment plan or diagnostic work up as appropriate, then that is not a therapeutic relationship that’s going to benefit them. “You have ordered an abdominal CT, might that not lead to cancer? Can you promise me it won’t lead to cancer?” is also tricky because no of course I can’t, I can just say that I believe the benefit of this tool outweighs the risk for you at this time. If the patient clearly disagrees, then that’s fine, but I’m not going to take on the liability of a patient who refuses my diagnostic work up or, who agrees to it but says they’re going to come after me if it leads to cancer. It’s not worth the headache. Find a doctor you trust and if that’s not me, I get it and that’s fine.

I got news for you. There are no patients who trust a Dr. and that includes your patients. They’re all verifying everything you tell them.
Every patient knows you’re not in it because you care because the odds are you don’t.

I can’t imagine having this attitude. Your outlook on life generally must really suck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors really only fire patients for what they believe is a liability to their malpractice insurance. But I could see how questions could be seen as threatening by some doctors.

How is asking doctors questions about your care or prescribed medications threatening?

Questions about care is not threatening, but if the questions are because the patient is not trusting my prescribed treatment plan or diagnostic work up as appropriate, then that is not a therapeutic relationship that’s going to benefit them. “You have ordered an abdominal CT, might that not lead to cancer? Can you promise me it won’t lead to cancer?” is also tricky because no of course I can’t, I can just say that I believe the benefit of this tool outweighs the risk for you at this time. If the patient clearly disagrees, then that’s fine, but I’m not going to take on the liability of a patient who refuses my diagnostic work up or, who agrees to it but says they’re going to come after me if it leads to cancer. It’s not worth the headache. Find a doctor you trust and if that’s not me, I get it and that’s fine.

I got news for you. There are no patients who trust a Dr. and that includes your patients. They’re all verifying everything you tell them.
Every patient knows you’re not in it because you care because the odds are you don’t.

I can’t imagine having this attitude. Your outlook on life generally must really suck.

DP, but lucky you. On a long enough timeline, you'll meet some doctors who will change your mind. Those of us with chronic conditions just get there faster because we see more doctors more often. The whole industry is shit, and while there may occasionally be decent people trying their best in it, the "no good cops" adage tends to hold true in US healthcare too.

Of course, the ableism of not being believed when we try to speak up about the problems, or being insulted or dismissed when we do our own research and ask to be heard as active participants in our care also adds to the suck of having any sort of disability in the first place. And yeah, over time, our outlook on life does tend to decline as a result.

Best of luck for your continued good health, that you may never experience what some of us have to live through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors really only fire patients for what they believe is a liability to their malpractice insurance. But I could see how questions could be seen as threatening by some doctors.

How is asking doctors questions about your care or prescribed medications threatening?

Questions about care is not threatening, but if the questions are because the patient is not trusting my prescribed treatment plan or diagnostic work up as appropriate, then that is not a therapeutic relationship that’s going to benefit them. “You have ordered an abdominal CT, might that not lead to cancer? Can you promise me it won’t lead to cancer?” is also tricky because no of course I can’t, I can just say that I believe the benefit of this tool outweighs the risk for you at this time. If the patient clearly disagrees, then that’s fine, but I’m not going to take on the liability of a patient who refuses my diagnostic work up or, who agrees to it but says they’re going to come after me if it leads to cancer. It’s not worth the headache. Find a doctor you trust and if that’s not me, I get it and that’s fine.

I got news for you. There are no patients who trust a Dr. and that includes your patients. They’re all verifying everything you tell them.
Every patient knows you’re not in it because you care because the odds are you don’t.

I can’t imagine having this attitude. Your outlook on life generally must really suck.

DP, but lucky you. On a long enough timeline, you'll meet some doctors who will change your mind. Those of us with chronic conditions just get there faster because we see more doctors more often. The whole industry is shit, and while there may occasionally be decent people trying their best in it, the "no good cops" adage tends to hold true in US healthcare too.

Of course, the ableism of not being believed when we try to speak up about the problems, or being insulted or dismissed when we do our own research and ask to be heard as active participants in our care also adds to the suck of having any sort of disability in the first place. And yeah, over time, our outlook on life does tend to decline as a result.

Best of luck for your continued good health, that you may never experience what some of us have to live through.

This 100%. Except that, because the way our system is, PP could be on the verge if a health crisis and have no idea because doctor patted him on the back 6 months ago and said everything is OK.

I'm that person - see the autoimmunity crisis thread. Without a diagnosis I can't get anyone to take me seriously.

[Anonymous]

So medicine, at this point, has nothing to offer to actually affect your outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doctors really only fire patients for what they believe is a liability to their malpractice insurance. But I could see how questions could be seen as threatening by some doctors.

How is asking doctors questions about your care or prescribed medications threatening?

Questions about care is not threatening, but if the questions are because the patient is not trusting my prescribed treatment plan or diagnostic work up as appropriate, then that is not a therapeutic relationship that’s going to benefit them. “You have ordered an abdominal CT, might that not lead to cancer? Can you promise me it won’t lead to cancer?” is also tricky because no of course I can’t, I can just say that I believe the benefit of this tool outweighs the risk for you at this time. If the patient clearly disagrees, then that’s fine, but I’m not going to take on the liability of a patient who refuses my diagnostic work up or, who agrees to it but says they’re going to come after me if it leads to cancer. It’s not worth the headache. Find a doctor you trust and if that’s not me, I get it and that’s fine.

I got news for you. There are no patients who trust a Dr. and that includes your patients. They’re all verifying everything you tell them.
Every patient knows you’re not in it because you care because the odds are you don’t.

I can’t imagine having this attitude. Your outlook on life generally must really suck.

DP, but lucky you. On a long enough timeline, you'll meet some doctors who will change your mind. Those of us with chronic conditions just get there faster because we see more doctors more often. The whole industry is shit, and while there may occasionally be decent people trying their best in it, the "no good cops" adage tends to hold true in US healthcare too.

Of course, the ableism of not being believed when we try to speak up about the problems, or being insulted or dismissed when we do our own research and ask to be heard as active participants in our care also adds to the suck of having any sort of disability in the first place. And yeah, over time, our outlook on life does tend to decline as a result.

Best of luck for your continued good health, that you may never experience what some of us have to live through.

First, I was responding to this complete BS: "I got news for you. There are no patients who trust a Dr. and that includes your patients. They’re all verifying everything you tell them.
Every patient knows you’re not in it because you care because the odds are you don’t[u]."

I have most certainly run into my fair share of bad doctors and doctors who are in it solely for the compensation. Some of my friends are exactly that way.

But to say that odds are skewed to doctors of that type is complete BS and a projection. I think you have a complete misunderstanding of what the medical profession is generally able to do. What exactly is so special about you in particular that warrants extreme amounts of time to solve your problems? That isn't how an economy works - we can't dedicate unending amounts of time of limited resources to singular individuals. So you work within that arrangement and paradigm or you go out and make a ton of money to create the exchange you want.

Also, to assume I have never experienced a chronic condition is also wrong. The difference is I don't expect miracles and I am also not going to show up to a 15 minute appointment with a stack of self-identified pubmed citations demanding they be read on the spot. That is a good way to get fired.

[Anonymous]

People are generally 99% good and well behaved and understanding; the 1% who have problems with everything and can’t stop complaining can’t find a good doc. Go figure. It’s you, not the system.