If you kid is studying at Williams/Amherst/Pomona/Swarthmore/Wellesley/Bowdoin now,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not my kid but a few years ago a neighbor's kid who was a superstar at our strong public (not famous, but competitive culture) went to Williams and was blown away by how much more intense it was than high school. Not just the workload but the overall competitive environment, I don't think he was expecting that.

Key Point: Much depends upon the student's high school experience. Students from many elite private prep schools (both boarding & day) are accustomed to such workloads and intellectual challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three private high school and then one of those colleges. The big three was way harder in terms of workload and time management.

I worked hard in college. I probably studied, I don't know, maybe eight hours a day, more during exams. But time management was not an issue because I only had four classes and I was neither work study nor an athlete. So I had PLENTY of time to get work done. And I got WAY more sleep than in high school.

I feel like there is something miss here from what you are saying. Did your daughter go to a high school where she only had a couple hours of homework a night? Or did her high school not prepare her well for college level week? Or is she an athlete or have a work study job? She should have plenty of time to get her work done and still sleep 7 to 8 hours a night.

Very common comment regarding students from elite prep boarding schools who attend top 10 colleges and universities. Some LACs, such as Swarthmore and Harvey Mudd, seem to take pride in loading up students with work. Happens at CMU, Princeton, and Georgia Tech also. More common to be stressed out over college/university workload for engineering majors than for most other majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four classes, none of which are STEM, are typically not overwhelming. My guess is that your dd’s high school was not particularly rigorous and it will take her a a semester or two to catch up, just be patient and support her, she’ll figure it out.

says someone who was not a liberal arts major. My DS takes four classes currently, politics and history, and it's a TON of reading. Literally too much reading. i think he told me he had to read hundreds of pages per day. He got good at being able to skim and only read the parts that he'll need for any upcoming essay or test. Otherwise, there was simply NO way he could read all of that material. So yes, its common. Also common is studying on the weekends.That is par for the course in college. My DS also took all those Ap classes you mention, got 4s and 5s and never broke a sweat, barely studied and got a 4.6 GPA from a competitive HS. So yeah college is another level, as it should be.

Did she not read hundreds of pages in high school?
I hate to interject this yet again (although I'm a different poster) but my Big3 kids honestly did. There was so much assigned reading. Commonly 10-12 books per year in English class alone. Between that and history both my kids would spend 1-2 hours per night in high school just reading text.

Unrelated to wear anyone went to high school, but an English class at a SLAC will be more like 10-12 books per semester. so,if you are taking 2-3 of them, it can be a lot of reading. Ideally students figure out how to mix their classes so that they aren’t taking 4-5 resding/writing intensive courses each semester.

My DCs are humanities majors but have take a reasonable number of STEM classes. Those with labs are certainly time consuming in terms of class time and require study, but not as time consuming as English/sociology/history classes. But they aren’t taking the super tough chem courses to be fair!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, very common experience.

This is why it's important to have the experience in high school of "lots of hard work to do, no free time". Otherwise college is a huge shock.

So they should live like hermits for 8 years to be prepared for "life". I disagree. I think there can be balance and that social life is very important for teens mental well being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like to shove a stick up the a$$ of every poster who says they worked harder at their “big 3” than they did at an elite college. Do they really think that public school kids at elite colleges just waltzed in after not doing shit in high school? Those kids worked equally hard if not harder, taking a dozen AP classes or more in order to stand out among the hundreds of kids in their class. They didn’t have the benefit of a (ridiculously named) “Big 3” to back up their applications so they hard to work harder.

Just STFU already. You’re not special. You’re privileged. There’s a difference.

Maybe you should have a conversations with the teachers on the board who claim there is no real rigor in said AP classes.

here we are generalizing again on this site. It depends greatly on the teachers and the specific APs and the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four classes, none of which are STEM, are typically not overwhelming. My guess is that your dd’s high school was not particularly rigorous and it will take her a a semester or two to catch up, just be patient and support her, she’ll figure it out.

says someone who was not a liberal arts major. My DS takes four classes currently, politics and history, and it's a TON of reading. Literally too much reading. i think he told me he had to read hundreds of pages per day. He got good at being able to skim and only read the parts that he'll need for any upcoming essay or test. Otherwise, there was simply NO way he could read all of that material. So yes, its common. Also common is studying on the weekends.That is par for the course in college. My DS also took all those Ap classes you mention, got 4s and 5s and never broke a sweat, barely studied and got a 4.6 GPA from a competitive HS. So yeah college is another level, as it should be.

Did she not read hundreds of pages in high school?
I hate to interject this yet again (although I'm a different poster) but my Big3 kids honestly did. There was so much assigned reading. Commonly 10-12 books per year in English class alone. Between that and history both my kids would spend 1-2 hours per night in high school just reading text.

Unrelated to wear anyone went to high school, but an English class at a SLAC will be more like 10-12 books per semester. so,if you are taking 2-3 of them, it can be a lot of reading. Ideally students figure out how to mix their classes so that they aren’t taking 4-5 resding/writing intensive courses each semester.

My DCs are humanities majors but have take a reasonable number of STEM classes. Those with labs are certainly time consuming in terms of class time and require study, but not as time consuming as English/sociology/history classes. But they aren’t taking the super tough chem courses to be fair!

A STEM class is MUCH more time consuming than English/sociology/history, get outta here with that nonsense.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I like to shove a stick up the a$$ of every poster who says they worked harder at their “big 3” than they did at an elite college. Do they really think that public school kids at elite colleges just waltzed in after not doing shit in high school? Those kids worked equally hard if not harder, taking a dozen AP classes or more in order to stand out among the hundreds of kids in their class. They didn’t have the benefit of a (ridiculously named) “Big 3” to back up their applications so they hard to work harder.

Just STFU already. You’re not special. You’re privileged. There’s a difference. [/quote]

But if they don’t maintain their Big 3 branding, then it will all be for nothing. The more they publicly talk about how intense it is…share notes, groan… the more the brand cements itself in the public sphere…and the AO’s will (hopefully) sweep their kids in…

[/quote]

But being at big 3 doesn’t mean you’re an intellectual powerhouse. More often than not it means your parents donated a ton of money and ran the auction in preschool or your K-8 before you got in. Money talks at the Big 3 and it doesn’t work as well for college unless your parents are going to give 7 figures. [/quote]

What it means is that your education isn’t at the whims of the county school board, who care far more about promoting equity than rigor. That isn’t the fault of the students or teachers who are being shortchanged by the Board of Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four classes, none of which are STEM, are typically not overwhelming. My guess is that your dd’s high school was not particularly rigorous and it will take her a a semester or two to catch up, just be patient and support her, she’ll figure it out.

says someone who was not a liberal arts major. My DS takes four classes currently, politics and history, and it's a TON of reading. Literally too much reading. i think he told me he had to read hundreds of pages per day. He got good at being able to skim and only read the parts that he'll need for any upcoming essay or test. Otherwise, there was simply NO way he could read all of that material. So yes, its common. Also common is studying on the weekends.That is par for the course in college. My DS also took all those Ap classes you mention, got 4s and 5s and never broke a sweat, barely studied and got a 4.6 GPA from a competitive HS. So yeah college is another level, as it should be.

Did she not read hundreds of pages in high school?
I hate to interject this yet again (although I'm a different poster) but my Big3 kids honestly did. There was so much assigned reading. Commonly 10-12 books per year in English class alone. Between that and history both my kids would spend 1-2 hours per night in high school just reading text.

Unrelated to wear anyone went to high school, but an English class at a SLAC will be more like 10-12 books per semester. so,if you are taking 2-3 of them, it can be a lot of reading. Ideally students figure out how to mix their classes so that they aren’t taking 4-5 resding/writing intensive courses each semester.

My DCs are humanities majors but have take a reasonable number of STEM classes. Those with labs are certainly time consuming in terms of class time and require study, but not as time consuming as English/sociology/history classes. But they aren’t taking the super tough chem courses to be fair!

I was an English major at a top 5 SLAC and then a graduate student in Literature (and TA) at a top university and we (and later my students) never read 10-12 books in an semester long course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Four classes, none of which are STEM, are typically not overwhelming. My guess is that your dd’s high school was not particularly rigorous and it will take her a a semester or two to catch up, just be patient and support her, she’ll figure it out.

says someone who was not a liberal arts major. My DS takes four classes currently, politics and history, and it's a TON of reading. Literally too much reading. i think he told me he had to read hundreds of pages per day. He got good at being able to skim and only read the parts that he'll need for any upcoming essay or test. Otherwise, there was simply NO way he could read all of that material. So yes, its common. Also common is studying on the weekends.That is par for the course in college. My DS also took all those Ap classes you mention, got 4s and 5s and never broke a sweat, barely studied and got a 4.6 GPA from a competitive HS. So yeah college is another level, as it should be.

Did she not read hundreds of pages in high school?
I hate to interject this yet again (although I'm a different poster) but my Big3 kids honestly did. There was so much assigned reading. Commonly 10-12 books per year in English class alone. Between that and history both my kids would spend 1-2 hours per night in high school just reading text.

Unrelated to wear anyone went to high school, but an English class at a SLAC will be more like 10-12 books per semester. so,if you are taking 2-3 of them, it can be a lot of reading. Ideally students figure out how to mix their classes so that they aren’t taking 4-5 resding/writing intensive courses each semester.

My DCs are humanities majors but have take a reasonable number of STEM classes. Those with labs are certainly time consuming in terms of class time and require study, but not as time consuming as English/sociology/history classes. But they aren’t taking the super tough chem courses to be fair!

I was an English major at a top 5 SLAC and then a graduate student in Literature (and TA) at a top university and we (and later my students) never read 10-12 books in an semester long course.

I assume unless there are some institutional restrictions there is probably nothing stopping Professor A from assigning 20 books and Professor B assigning 5 books for essentially the same class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like to shove a stick up the a$$ of every poster who says they worked harder at their “big 3” than they did at an elite college. Do they really think that public school kids at elite colleges just waltzed in after not doing shit in high school? Those kids worked equally hard if not harder, taking a dozen AP classes or more in order to stand out among the hundreds of kids in their class. They didn’t have the benefit of a (ridiculously named) “Big 3” to back up their applications so they hard to work harder.

Just STFU already. You’re not special. You’re privileged. There’s a difference.

DP Please take your own advice.

[Anonymous]

This was my own experience at UMich- not SLAC but it a lot of highly ranked schools are like this. Plus the dreaded bell curve where you feel like a failure after each exam only to find out that a 50% is a B. What was the point of that? Do colleges still do that? Seemed like Academic ego by profs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This was my own experience at UMich- not SLAC but it a lot of highly ranked schools are like this. Plus the dreaded bell curve where you feel like a failure after each exam only to find out that a 50% is a B. What was the point of that? Do colleges still do that? Seemed like Academic ego by profs.

The bell curve was only dreaded when my buddy who was a Chemistry major was one of the ones helping set the curve at a 97 (out of 100) for organic chemistry, which perhaps dashed the hopes of many a pre-med major. The 50% curves were fine.

[Anonymous]

I went to one of those schools back in the dark ages. But my experience was that most of my fellow students were in a similar situation to your daughter. I did two things that made my workload a lot less than my peers.
1) Read a book on speed reading and then implement those techniques. I was reading nearly twice as fast as most of my peers, and I have found that to be a valuable skill throughout my life.
2) First week of the semester, I would look ahead on the syllabus for all the papers that were due, and I would create at least a basic outline for each one. Then when you are reading and come across a quote or a study or whatever that you want to include in the paper, immediately add it to the existing outline/citation document. Then when it is time to write the paper almost all of the work is already done, you just need to edit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three private high school and then one of those colleges. The big three was way harder in terms of workload and time management.

I worked hard in college. I probably studied, I don't know, maybe eight hours a day, more during exams. But time management was not an issue because I only had four classes and I was neither work study nor an athlete. So I had PLENTY of time to get work done. And I got WAY more sleep than in high school.

I feel like there is something miss here from what you are saying. Did your daughter go to a high school where she only had a couple hours of homework a night? Or did her high school not prepare her well for college level week? Or is she an athlete or have a work study job? She should have plenty of time to get her work done and still sleep 7 to 8 hours a night.

Similar experience. It's about time management. Way more free time in college than in high school. OP's daughter needs to figure this out. If she's only getting 6-7 hours a sleep it's because she's staying up late catching up when she has plenty of time during the day between classes, after the last class and before dinner, or library after dinner. Sunday afternoons and evenings were always standard studying days at college. It's good preparation for life as a consultant or analyst after graduation.

From what I remember, I typically rose at 9, just had coffee for breakfast, headed to library and prepped for first class, then classes/lunch/library studies through late afternoon. Maybe some chilling till dinner with friends. After dinner back to library, then gym and the occasional campus club event. Bed by 1.

Repeat through Thursday. Friday afternoon after last class typically didn't study but hung out and socialized. Same with Saturdays. Sunday was definitely a study day but leisurely.

I tended to study solo in a quiet corner of the library but plenty studied in groups and made it a social thing too. Not always advisable and that may be the other problem if OP's daughter's "studying" is really talking with friends in the library.

I went to an Ivy and maybe averaged 2 hours of homework per night.

These schools sound fairly miserable.

That said, I do wonder with the online ratings of courses/teachers/workloads if it is easier to carve out a better lifestyle these days.

But what did you major in? it makes a big difference.

Econ. I never took a humanities class that required hundreds or thousands of pages of assigned reading. Maybe I knew how to avoid those classes pre-Internet.

I'm not this PP but did the same. (not at Ivy) Econ major and avoided any class with tons of reading. I'd love to sit in on those sorts of courses as an adult (still without needing to do the reading). I preferred to take on more analytical courses that used math.

But everyone is different. I had friends who needed to study far more than I did for Econ (and similar) courses...but they loved political science and history courses that piled on reading and had papers. Part of college is learning your strengths and weaknesses and how to balance those in choosing a passion.

I took several poli sci classes that I thought were interesting because the professors were a former ambassador and high-ranking former government official. One of the professors was like 2nd under Secretary of State (?? what that is called). It is possible because these were not tenured people, the class was not heavy on the thousands of pages of reading. They were awesome...early 1990s and we were discussing how Russia and Eastern Europe were democratizing and the guy was literally in the room for all this stuff.

That sounds amazing. Ah, I want to go back to college! Do young people even appreciate the opportunities they have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a big three private high school and then one of those colleges. The big three was way harder in terms of workload and time management.

I worked hard in college. I probably studied, I don't know, maybe eight hours a day, more during exams. But time management was not an issue because I only had four classes and I was neither work study nor an athlete. So I had PLENTY of time to get work done. And I got WAY more sleep than in high school.

I feel like there is something miss here from what you are saying. Did your daughter go to a high school where she only had a couple hours of homework a night? Or did her high school not prepare her well for college level week? Or is she an athlete or have a work study job? She should have plenty of time to get her work done and still sleep 7 to 8 hours a night.

Similar experience. It's about time management. Way more free time in college than in high school. OP's daughter needs to figure this out. If she's only getting 6-7 hours a sleep it's because she's staying up late catching up when she has plenty of time during the day between classes, after the last class and before dinner, or library after dinner. Sunday afternoons and evenings were always standard studying days at college. It's good preparation for life as a consultant or analyst after graduation.

From what I remember, I typically rose at 9, just had coffee for breakfast, headed to library and prepped for first class, then classes/lunch/library studies through late afternoon. Maybe some chilling till dinner with friends. After dinner back to library, then gym and the occasional campus club event. Bed by 1.

Repeat through Thursday. Friday afternoon after last class typically didn't study but hung out and socialized. Same with Saturdays. Sunday was definitely a study day but leisurely.

I tended to study solo in a quiet corner of the library but plenty studied in groups and made it a social thing too. Not always advisable and that may be the other problem if OP's daughter's "studying" is really talking with friends in the library.

I went to an Ivy and maybe averaged 2 hours of homework per night.

These schools sound fairly miserable.

That said, I do wonder with the online ratings of courses/teachers/workloads if it is easier to carve out a better lifestyle these days.

But what did you major in? it makes a big difference.

Econ. I never took a humanities class that required hundreds or thousands of pages of assigned reading. Maybe I knew how to avoid those classes pre-Internet.

We didn't need the internet to know english, history, political science etc. were heavy on reading and papers or that science with extra lab were tons of time.

You missed the point...I am trying to remember how I managed to pick a political science class that was NOT heavy on the reading (though a bunch of papers. although mostly fairly short). It is quite possible if I had selected the course above or below in the catalogue, could have been night-and-day in terms of the workload.

Im PP - we knew by word of mouth....I suspect you did too?