any colleges moving to "test aware"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

I went to a seminar with Selingo and he mentioned this type of data sorting too. Think it involved coding with colors (high schools; zip codes).

The schools that were test optional but not really test optional are already correcting for this. They (and everyone else) sees how it went wrong. It is not how many are doing this year's applications. They are putting the test optional kids in the same data system with a zero and not using a test-cut-off number.

Have not heard this. Went to private school event last night with asst directors of admin reps from NU; Pomona; Dartmouth; UofC; Wash U; and many 4 others…we asked about TO.

I’m not in DC btw.
They said TO really is TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

I went to a seminar with Selingo and he mentioned this type of data sorting too. Think it involved coding with colors (high schools; zip codes).

The schools that were test optional but not really test optional are already correcting for this. They (and everyone else) sees how it went wrong. It is not how many are doing this year's applications. They are putting the test optional kids in the same data system with a zero and not using a test-cut-off number.

Have not heard this. Went to private school event last night with asst directors of admin reps from NU; Pomona; Dartmouth; UofC; Wash U; and many 4 others…we asked about TO.

I’m not in DC btw.
They said TO really is TO.

Wake; Dickinson; Bates. Trying to think of the other

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently heard a podcast where the Dartmouth dean of admissions said they were moving from test optional to test aware. Basically saying, yeah, of course we'll notice if you don't send in a score and if you're coming from a UMC high school. That was the tone I was picking up. He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

If a school is "test aware"...seems like if you score a 1400+ you should send the score. I don't know what the 25 - 75 range was prior to TO, but it was likely starting in the 1400s.

The description above would imply that not sending test scores means you are probably in the 1200s. It also seems to imply that TO is only for disadvantaged kids...and that honestly, an UMC kid should just apply somewhere else vs. TO.

Again, prior to TO, almost no UMC non-athlete, no hook kid would even have wasted their time applying to Dartmouth with a 1200.

Not a shock that MIT applications dropped 30% when they went back to requiring test scores last year.

Did MIT admit students without tests that did not do well their first year?

Basically - read this interview. It’s fascinating because it goes against what other schools say. And it makes a good point. If a underprivileged student only has Calc AB at their school, is taking it senior year so no AP test score, a 750+ shows, they can handle MIT math.

https://news.mit.edu/2022/stuart-schmill-sat-act-requirement-0328

I'm the one who posted earlier that the SAT only goes up to HS geometry--but I agree with this--in absence of other access to AP/IB/DE math at high school, the SAT can be important. But for most MC/UMC kids, the AP/IB exam scores are stronger evidence.

[Anonymous]

Easy.
Ask this question at next weeks online event for JHU; WashU; Rice and Emory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Easy.
Ask this question at next weeks online event for JHU; WashU; Rice and Emory.

Link?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently heard a podcast where the Dartmouth dean of admissions said they were moving from test optional to test aware. Basically saying, yeah, of course we'll notice if you don't send in a score and if you're coming from a UMC high school. That was the tone I was picking up. He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

If a school is "test aware"...seems like if you score a 1400+ you should send the score. I don't know what the 25 - 75 range was prior to TO, but it was likely starting in the 1400s.

The description above would imply that not sending test scores means you are probably in the 1200s. It also seems to imply that TO is only for disadvantaged kids...and that honestly, an UMC kid should just apply somewhere else vs. TO.

Again, prior to TO, almost no UMC non-athlete, no hook kid would even have wasted their time applying to Dartmouth with a 1200.

Not a shock that MIT applications dropped 30% when they went back to requiring test scores last year.

Did MIT admit students without tests that did not do well their first year?

Basically - read this interview. It’s fascinating because it goes against what other schools say. And it makes a good point. If a underprivileged student only has Calc AB at their school, is taking it senior year so no AP test score, a 750+ shows, they can handle MIT math.

https://news.mit.edu/2022/stuart-schmill-sat-act-requirement-0328

I'm the one who posted earlier that the SAT only goes up to HS geometry--but I agree with this--in absence of other access to AP/IB/DE math at high school, the SAT can be important. But for most MC/UMC kids, the AP/IB exam scores are stronger evidence.

This is the whole reason for “AP Precalculus.” It’s not for college credit. It’s because so many more kids can take precalc by junior year, and then they have an AP score for the “test blind” UCs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

I went to a seminar with Selingo and he mentioned this type of data sorting too. Think it involved coding with colors (high schools; zip codes).

The schools that were test optional but not really test optional are already correcting for this. They (and everyone else) sees how it went wrong. It is not how many are doing this year's applications. They are putting the test optional kids in the same data system with a zero and not using a test-cut-off number.

Have not heard this. Went to private school event last night with asst directors of admin reps from NU; Pomona; Dartmouth; UofC; Wash U; and many 4 others…we asked about TO.

I’m not in DC btw.
They said TO really is TO.

It's still test optional, but not in a way that it was last year where test optional meant that they inadvertently favored those who didn't submit test scores. They are changing their database systems so that they are all in one pile and there isn't an explicit test score cut-off for those who submit test scores. So those with test scores will be directly compared with those without test scores rather than separately (My DH is involved in higher ed tech and this is not confidential information or anything)--they don't factor test scores on the first sort (unless it's marked as a very important criteria in the CDS for the school which is vanishingly rare for a test optional school-- so it's first sorted by recalculated GPA and region and then sent to review committees. Test optional now for many means not sorted by test score ever, but test scores are used as information in review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

I went to a seminar with Selingo and he mentioned this type of data sorting too. Think it involved coding with colors (high schools; zip codes).

The schools that were test optional but not really test optional are already correcting for this. They (and everyone else) sees how it went wrong. It is not how many are doing this year's applications. They are putting the test optional kids in the same data system with a zero and not using a test-cut-off number.

Have not heard this. Went to private school event last night with asst directors of admin reps from NU; Pomona; Dartmouth; UofC; Wash U; and many 4 others…we asked about TO.

I’m not in DC btw.
They said TO really is TO.

Maybe special rules apply to you - who knows.
Did Dartmouth actually say “TO is really TO”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

What we do know for sure is the UC system is 100% test blind and many of those campuses are T50 which tells you the real value of the tests if Berkeley and UCLA can live without them.

UCLA had 146,000 applications last year and can’t sort by scores so how are they doing it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

What we do know for sure is the UC system is 100% test blind and many of those campuses are T50 which tells you the real value of the tests if Berkeley and UCLA can live without them.

UCLA had 146,000 applications last year and can’t sort by scores so how are they doing it?

recalculated regional GPA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

I went to a seminar with Selingo and he mentioned this type of data sorting too. Think it involved coding with colors (high schools; zip codes).

The schools that were test optional but not really test optional are already correcting for this. They (and everyone else) sees how it went wrong. It is not how many are doing this year's applications. They are putting the test optional kids in the same data system with a zero and not using a test-cut-off number.

Have not heard this. Went to private school event last night with asst directors of admin reps from NU; Pomona; Dartmouth; UofC; Wash U; and many 4 others…we asked about TO.

I’m not in DC btw.
They said TO really is TO.

It's still test optional, but not in a way that it was last year where test optional meant that they inadvertently favored those who didn't submit test scores. They are changing their database systems so that they are all in one pile and there isn't an explicit test score cut-off for those who submit test scores. So those with test scores will be directly compared with those without test scores rather than separately (My DH is involved in higher ed tech and this is not confidential information or anything)--they don't factor test scores on the first sort (unless it's marked as a very important criteria in the CDS for the school which is vanishingly rare for a test optional school-- so it's first sorted by recalculated GPA and region and then sent to review committees. Test optional now for many means not sorted by test score ever, but test scores are used as information in review.

This is what I assumed was happening all along. It never occurred to me that TO applicants were considered separately from others. It goes against everything I've ever heard about how schools do admissions. They look at applicants by region/school, and test scores are considered for those who submit and not for those who don't. Your saying schools were putting TO applicants in a separate process? Can you name a school that was doing it this way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recently heard a podcast where the Dartmouth dean of admissions said they were moving from test optional to test aware. Basically saying, yeah, of course we'll notice if you don't send in a score and if you're coming from a UMC high school. That was the tone I was picking up. He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

It's Dartmouth.

Highly selective regardless of the testing policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was also saying, just send it .. it's better than you think. (which I'm not so sure is true)

I'm looking for more test aware schools. Has anyone else heard of schools moving that way?

I heard that comment too. One way to look at it is that the scores do give admissions offices information, so of course they'd like them. Their 25th-75th percentile range for last year for admitted was 1500/1580, so the midpoint would be 1540. It's true that not submitting a 1530 is probably foolish--it's a great score and would probably only be seen as a positive. But, if a straight-A student with excellent extracurriculars submits a 1200, I can't imagine that that would help their application, and more likely would hurt it. It would be great if admissions offices would tell us to submit everything above a particular score, but that's against their own interests.

But why would a straight A student only score a 1200? That doesn’t make sense unless their school’s 4.0 is useless measure of ability.

Some parents play the IEP game.. extra time for tests, repeat tests, tutoring, etc. to keep them grades up. When the kid bombs a standardized test they go, "oh, he's a poor test taker" and push the kid to repeat the test multiple times to crack that 1400 benchmark..

Yep. A decent amount of UMC households with a academically average kids do this.

[Anonymous]

My kid is a NMF with good boy great sats. Counselor said the NMF is enough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are looking for ways to reject you quickly so they can cut 28,000 applicants into 1,800 admits.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you send them, then you are giving them the definite information they need to reject you.

If your scores aren't top notch, and you don't send them, then you have not given them definite information, whatever they might suspect.

I'd lean towards not sending them if you're not above midpoint for the previous year's 25/75.

Exactly. Then they have to read your essays. I listen to a different podcast not from the Dartmouth admissions Director but from someone else who mentioned that a lot of ivies want the score because it’s an auto reject pile for GPA and Test score They don’t even read anything unless you pass that first stage.

Highly selective schools want you to submit the scores and want you to pay the fee and want you to add to their great application numbers and eventual yield. They want the score bc it’s entered into a data management system (like ptr-Vovid) along with zip code and gpa and school code, for auto sorting.

But if your score is below the 50th percentile mark and you do not have something really special… Not great… Not even normal awards… Something magical, and so unique… It’s a waste of time.

So for those kids if they are below the 50th percentile, I would say no don’t submit. Because it’s true they don’t even read your application if you were below unless there is some other hook

If you do not submit the score, you are automatically put into another pile. Read usually by different people/committee members.

Did you notice strangely a lot more test optional kids got into really good schools last year then kids with perfect stats in your circle?!? Maybe just a private school thing but I think not.

What’s the data system and who is using it

What we do know for sure is the UC system is 100% test blind and many of those campuses are T50 which tells you the real value of the tests if Berkeley and UCLA can live without them.

UCLA had 146,000 applications last year and can’t sort by scores so how are they doing it?

They’ve been test blind for 2 years so too early to tell. There have been reports that the uc schools have been adding remedial math classes.