change my mind: can't pay a living wage to all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think high school should do a better job of teaching finances to all, simple rules of demand and supply, manage your career while still being somewhat passionate about your job. I would recommend anyone working minimum wage jobs to look carefully and learn skills to more high paying jobs. It doesn't have to be college educated, but nanny, baby sitter, truck driver, trade school jobs (plumber, electrician etc ) pay a LOT more and there is definite shortage for those skills and certainly add much more value to the society than serving McDonalds.. but hell easier said than done, and I recognize that people may have different circumstances. I just wish all high schoolers were taught that money is important and minimum wage jobs won't cut it.. sure they are stop gap job, but not a career for most

You think poor people don't know those things? Many of them are trapped in vicious cycles. What we learned during Covid is that with some time off and enhanced UI benefits people did upskill and got themselves out of their vicious cycles. And employers in low paying fields started shouting "no one wants to work". Nope, they just traded up.

Teen pregnancy is not a "vicious cycle." Just...don't get pregnant. If you don't have access to reliable birth control, abstain. Its that simple. It really truly is.

Who mentioned pregnancy besides you? ....
Also, who are stop gap jobs for? No one who wants to procreate correct? And yet when you do procreate it is incredibly difficult due to costs, sick leave, hours, etc. Someone who thinks this is also so simple as BC or abstain when it comes to poverty cant possibly be relied on to have these discussions in good faith.

Its one of the tenets of not being poor. And the stop gap jobs are for the under-25, non-parent group. If you graduate HS, postpone marriage and parenthood, and find a stable partner, you will be able to afford those things later on. Its very well documented and researched. It isn't rocket science.

One of the tenets of not being poor is not having poor parents but sure ....

Graduating HS and delaying parenthood is attainable for everyone.

Teen pregnancy is down 70% in the last decade and high school graduation rates have skyrocketed. Poverty levels remain essentially unchanged. Many people went to great lengths to not only graduate high school but also take on a debt load to attend college, only to find out there were no well-paying jobs, pushing them further into poverty. You seem to have a very naive view of the world.

The stats disagree. If you meet the 3 criteria above you have a 98% change of not living in poverty.

Your made up stats disagree, not the actual facts.

https://www.idra.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Effects-Graph-329x300.png

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

Huh? Its pretty easy. We spent that on our first house and made $140k at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

They don't, but they also don't live in a nice townhome in Leesburg, they live in something like this

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3816-Port-Hope-Point-Triangle-VA-22172/12470573_zpid/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

And the schools are not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Change my mind, maybe I am wrong:
Everyone in every job cannot make a wage that allows them to not:
-seek education and/or training to advance into something that pays more
-live with roommates or family
-be in a position where they cannot raise kids on their one salary or with someone with an equivalent salary

https://wtop.com/local/2023/09/health-care-workers-in-dc-area-authorize-strike-against-kaiser-permanente-joining-thousands-across-the-nation/

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/16l5zjp/why_we_are_striking_at_ford_motor_company/

the COVID-era low skilled worker wage raises seems to have created a sort wage-price spiral--$15 was the request, then $17, but it will never be enough if all low-wage workers make the same thing.

Of course. Two people working the drive thru at McDonalds are not mean to raise two kids in a 3br townhome in Burke. That is not meant to be a forever job.

Used to be, a secretary and a truck driver, or a checker at Giant and an EMT, could own a townhouse in Burke and have a kid or two who they sent to NOVA-> GMU with minimal loans. What happened?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

I disagree but you can drop the garage and spend $460k.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/114-Nottoway-St-SE-Leesburg-VA-20175/12412864_zpid/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

And the schools are not good.

All of Loudoun schools are rated like that by Great Schools. It just reflects the amount of FARMS and EL students and the acheivement gaps. The schools are fine - my kids schools have the same "ratings."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

And the schools are not good.

So we are back to a "living wage" demanding a Great Schools 10?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

And the schools are not good.

So we are back to a "living wage" demanding a Great Schools 10?

NP. That's where I get hopelessly lost whenever anyone discusses living wage. When I see it discussed on social media, "living wage" seems to mean getting paid wages from day 1 at any job that enables you to buy an HGTV-level house or get an apartment by yourself (without roommates or a partner), raise kids if you have them, have a car, cell phone, sufficient food, streaming services, and other "necessities of life," regardless of the level of skill of the job, how long you have been there, your experience, or your education level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?

$550k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/141-Hampshire-Sq-SW-Leesburg-VA-20175/12416313_zpid/

No clue how a family with HHI of $150K and kids affords this.

And the schools are not good.

So we are back to a "living wage" demanding a Great Schools 10?

NP. That's where I get hopelessly lost whenever anyone discusses living wage. When I see it discussed on social media, "living wage" seems to mean getting paid wages from day 1 at any job that enables you to buy an HGTV-level house or get an apartment by yourself (without roommates or a partner), raise kids if you have them, have a car, cell phone, sufficient food, streaming services, and other "necessities of life," regardless of the level of skill of the job, how long you have been there, your experience, or your education level.

$150K is not living wage, it's the middle class, a couple of a nurse and a teacher, both working. They have to pay 50% of their take home for this townhouse house with bad schools and have less than 4k a month to pay for everything else, from food, childcare, medical, retirement savings etc.

A couple making $15/hr can't even dream of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you. It's an impossible goal. If we raise wages to try to give everyone a living wage, prices go up, and some wages then fall below the living wage standard. The cycle goes on and on. Some jobs will never pay enough to live alone, buy a home, or raise a family.

Why can't it come out of CEO pay, which is why we have such an income gap. What about taxing companies (looking at you Walmart) who put too many employees at PT status to avoid paying benefits. If they cost the city and feds, why isn't the corporation penalized. Too many of us blame individuals for problems around immigration, benefits, healthcare, etc. when we should blame corporations.

Look at this sharp incline of rising CEO wages: https://www.statista.com/statistics/261463/ceo-to-worker-compensation-ratio-of-top-firms-in-the-us/

Walmart and McDonalds are costing taxpayers dearly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stamps-medicaid-mcdonalds-walmart-bernie-sanders/

[Anonymous]

Disagree. If you can’t afford to pay a living wage to your workers in your locality, you don’t deserve to be in business.

I am a conservative Republican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you. It's an impossible goal. If we raise wages to try to give everyone a living wage, prices go up, and some wages then fall below the living wage standard. The cycle goes on and on. Some jobs will never pay enough to live alone, buy a home, or raise a family.

Why can't it come out of CEO pay, which is why we have such an income gap. What about taxing companies (looking at you Walmart) who put too many employees at PT status to avoid paying benefits. If they cost the city and feds, why isn't the corporation penalized. Too many of us blame individuals for problems around immigration, benefits, healthcare, etc. when we should blame corporations.

Look at this sharp incline of rising CEO wages: https://www.statista.com/statistics/261463/ceo-to-worker-compensation-ratio-of-top-firms-in-the-us/

Walmart and McDonalds are costing taxpayers dearly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stamps-medicaid-mcdonalds-walmart-bernie-sanders/

Sorry but this is just not accurate.

Walmart’s CEO makes $25,000,000.

Walmart employs 2,300,000 people.

That’s $11/person/year if the CEO took home $0.

This isn’t to say that the CEO should or shouldn’t make that much. But you’re simply wrong if you think CEO comp could solve any of this.