change my mind: can't pay a living wage to all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The CEO of General Motors makes more PER HOUR than I make in a year, and I'm a college professor! It's sad that there are people who will never believe that their compensation is enough and who will always desire more.
I'm sure that the CEO thinks her compensation is just and fair and probably doesn't lose any sleep at night worrying about her employees who put off services like having a mammogram because the copay on their insurance is too high, and risk leaving their kids motherless as a result.
I have had some excruciating dental issues recently and it's made me think about all the poeple in the US, including children, who can't afford dental care and who don't have dental insurance. It seems really inhumane that in such a wealthy country we have people in pain from medical and dental conditions, and we have essentially two tiers when it comes to medical care. In a very real sense, we have created a system where the wealthy live to be 90 something, and the poor die when they are sixty. It's hard to believe that we cannot do better.
No one should be homeless in the US. We can afford to do better.

1) I think some DCUMers really convince themselves that compensation always is directly related to smarts and work ethic.
2) I wonder if the people who feel strongly that people are not entitled to a living wage or basics like housing and healthcare will feel differently when AI upends their fields.

+1
There are compensation cabals and CEOs are the most obvious. They can have documented horrendous performance, get a golden parachute and be hired elsewhere and do the same. The reason is because ALL the CEOs benefit if they keep everyone in the club, don't make it fully dependent on strong performance, and keep pay and benefits high. Board members are in the same club so there isn't pushback to the general process there. This happens at many of the business upper echelon jobs. It's very distorting and not fitting with a free market.

This is very different from the compensation differentials that happen because a skill is relatively rare but is currently in demand or there is some kind of downside to the job (e.g., petroleum engineers get paid more because fewer people with engineering skills want that that work environment so they have to pay more). Those are more natural compensation differentials. Then also there is just inertia, industry variation etc. that is essentially error in the system.

There is a lot of space between being rich and being not poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think high school should do a better job of teaching finances to all, simple rules of demand and supply, manage your career while still being somewhat passionate about your job. I would recommend anyone working minimum wage jobs to look carefully and learn skills to more high paying jobs. It doesn't have to be college educated, but nanny, baby sitter, truck driver, trade school jobs (plumber, electrician etc ) pay a LOT more and there is definite shortage for those skills and certainly add much more value to the society than serving McDonalds.. but hell easier said than done, and I recognize that people may have different circumstances. I just wish all high schoolers were taught that money is important and minimum wage jobs won't cut it.. sure they are stop gap job, but not a career for most

You think poor people don't know those things? Many of them are trapped in vicious cycles. What we learned during Covid is that with some time off and enhanced UI benefits people did upskill and got themselves out of their vicious cycles. And employers in low paying fields started shouting "no one wants to work". Nope, they just traded up.

Teen pregnancy is not a "vicious cycle." Just...don't get pregnant. If you don't have access to reliable birth control, abstain. Its that simple. It really truly is.

Who mentioned pregnancy besides you? ....
Also, who are stop gap jobs for? No one who wants to procreate correct? And yet when you do procreate it is incredibly difficult due to costs, sick leave, hours, etc. Someone who thinks this is also so simple as BC or abstain when it comes to poverty cant possibly be relied on to have these discussions in good faith.

Its one of the tenets of not being poor. And the stop gap jobs are for the under-25, non-parent group. If you graduate HS, postpone marriage and parenthood, and find a stable partner, you will be able to afford those things later on. Its very well documented and researched. It isn't rocket science.

One of the tenets of not being poor is not having poor parents but sure ....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wages can increase without costs increasing if income inequality/price gouging is reduced.

Grocery prices went up 150% for some items.

2020 1lb turkey at walmart 3.14 to 6.72
11.98 to 16.48 3lb bacon
waffles 2.93 to 4.19

Except in a free market, the market determines the price of the goods, not some third party regulator. Grocers are able to charge these prices because people will pay them. If people didn't pay it, the prices would come down. Wages going up only exacerbates this. Same with stimulus and other "free" money.

IT IS NOT A FREE MARKET. See stimulus. See corporate sponsorship and loans.

People have to buy food. Formula. Etc. I am showing that one of the cheapest places to get groceries on staples, non-organics (so just basic food) increaed that much.

And yet people are still buying...

What’s the alternative, STARVE?

[Anonymous]

Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think high school should do a better job of teaching finances to all, simple rules of demand and supply, manage your career while still being somewhat passionate about your job. I would recommend anyone working minimum wage jobs to look carefully and learn skills to more high paying jobs. It doesn't have to be college educated, but nanny, baby sitter, truck driver, trade school jobs (plumber, electrician etc ) pay a LOT more and there is definite shortage for those skills and certainly add much more value to the society than serving McDonalds.. but hell easier said than done, and I recognize that people may have different circumstances. I just wish all high schoolers were taught that money is important and minimum wage jobs won't cut it.. sure they are stop gap job, but not a career for most

You think poor people don't know those things? Many of them are trapped in vicious cycles. What we learned during Covid is that with some time off and enhanced UI benefits people did upskill and got themselves out of their vicious cycles. And employers in low paying fields started shouting "no one wants to work". Nope, they just traded up.

Teen pregnancy is not a "vicious cycle." Just...don't get pregnant. If you don't have access to reliable birth control, abstain. Its that simple. It really truly is.

Who mentioned pregnancy besides you? ....
Also, who are stop gap jobs for? No one who wants to procreate correct? And yet when you do procreate it is incredibly difficult due to costs, sick leave, hours, etc. Someone who thinks this is also so simple as BC or abstain when it comes to poverty cant possibly be relied on to have these discussions in good faith.

Its one of the tenets of not being poor. And the stop gap jobs are for the under-25, non-parent group. If you graduate HS, postpone marriage and parenthood, and find a stable partner, you will be able to afford those things later on. Its very well documented and researched. It isn't rocket science.

One of the tenets of not being poor is not having poor parents but sure ....

Graduating HS and delaying parenthood is attainable for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

There are places where the gap between rich and poor is smaller than in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think high school should do a better job of teaching finances to all, simple rules of demand and supply, manage your career while still being somewhat passionate about your job. I would recommend anyone working minimum wage jobs to look carefully and learn skills to more high paying jobs. It doesn't have to be college educated, but nanny, baby sitter, truck driver, trade school jobs (plumber, electrician etc ) pay a LOT more and there is definite shortage for those skills and certainly add much more value to the society than serving McDonalds.. but hell easier said than done, and I recognize that people may have different circumstances. I just wish all high schoolers were taught that money is important and minimum wage jobs won't cut it.. sure they are stop gap job, but not a career for most

You think poor people don't know those things? Many of them are trapped in vicious cycles. What we learned during Covid is that with some time off and enhanced UI benefits people did upskill and got themselves out of their vicious cycles. And employers in low paying fields started shouting "no one wants to work". Nope, they just traded up.

Teen pregnancy is not a "vicious cycle." Just...don't get pregnant. If you don't have access to reliable birth control, abstain. Its that simple. It really truly is.

Who mentioned pregnancy besides you? ....
Also, who are stop gap jobs for? No one who wants to procreate correct? And yet when you do procreate it is incredibly difficult due to costs, sick leave, hours, etc. Someone who thinks this is also so simple as BC or abstain when it comes to poverty cant possibly be relied on to have these discussions in good faith.

Its one of the tenets of not being poor. And the stop gap jobs are for the under-25, non-parent group. If you graduate HS, postpone marriage and parenthood, and find a stable partner, you will be able to afford those things later on. Its very well documented and researched. It isn't rocket science.

One of the tenets of not being poor is not having poor parents but sure ....

Graduating HS and delaying parenthood is attainable for everyone.

Teen pregnancy is down 70% in the last decade and high school graduation rates have skyrocketed. Poverty levels remain essentially unchanged. Many people went to great lengths to not only graduate high school but also take on a debt load to attend college, only to find out there were no well-paying jobs, pushing them further into poverty. You seem to have a very naive view of the world.

[Anonymous]

Raising a family on a single income in a good school district was attainable even a generation ago. Many of us probably grew up in these places! Now both parents must work, everything is more expensive, and wages have remain largely unchanged due to inflation. Something has got to give.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think high school should do a better job of teaching finances to all, simple rules of demand and supply, manage your career while still being somewhat passionate about your job. I would recommend anyone working minimum wage jobs to look carefully and learn skills to more high paying jobs. It doesn't have to be college educated, but nanny, baby sitter, truck driver, trade school jobs (plumber, electrician etc ) pay a LOT more and there is definite shortage for those skills and certainly add much more value to the society than serving McDonalds.. but hell easier said than done, and I recognize that people may have different circumstances. I just wish all high schoolers were taught that money is important and minimum wage jobs won't cut it.. sure they are stop gap job, but not a career for most

You think poor people don't know those things? Many of them are trapped in vicious cycles. What we learned during Covid is that with some time off and enhanced UI benefits people did upskill and got themselves out of their vicious cycles. And employers in low paying fields started shouting "no one wants to work". Nope, they just traded up.

Teen pregnancy is not a "vicious cycle." Just...don't get pregnant. If you don't have access to reliable birth control, abstain. Its that simple. It really truly is.

Who mentioned pregnancy besides you? ....
Also, who are stop gap jobs for? No one who wants to procreate correct? And yet when you do procreate it is incredibly difficult due to costs, sick leave, hours, etc. Someone who thinks this is also so simple as BC or abstain when it comes to poverty cant possibly be relied on to have these discussions in good faith.

Its one of the tenets of not being poor. And the stop gap jobs are for the under-25, non-parent group. If you graduate HS, postpone marriage and parenthood, and find a stable partner, you will be able to afford those things later on. Its very well documented and researched. It isn't rocket science.

One of the tenets of not being poor is not having poor parents but sure ....

Graduating HS and delaying parenthood is attainable for everyone.

Teen pregnancy is down 70% in the last decade and high school graduation rates have skyrocketed. Poverty levels remain essentially unchanged. Many people went to great lengths to not only graduate high school but also take on a debt load to attend college, only to find out there were no well-paying jobs, pushing them further into poverty. You seem to have a very naive view of the world.

The stats disagree. If you meet the 3 criteria above you have a 98% change of not living in poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Raising a family on a single income in a good school district was attainable even a generation ago. Many of us probably grew up in these places! Now both parents must work, everything is more expensive, and wages have remain largely unchanged due to inflation. Something has got to give.

Many of us do it now in far less than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Raising a family on a single income in a good school district was attainable even a generation ago. Many of us probably grew up in these places! Now both parents must work, everything is more expensive, and wages have remain largely unchanged due to inflation. Something has got to give.

Tons of middle class SAHM's in the DMV. They just don't live in Bethesda or McLean. Its still very attainable, especially if the breadwinner is college educated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

Socialism doesn't work, but capitalism is great?

That's news to a lot of working poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Socialism sounds good, but the problem is that it doesn’t work. Do we really need another experimenting in it?

Yes. It sucks to be poor. There will be poor always.

You (DCUM in general) keep talking about the poor and people without any degrees or skills. But those are not the only people struggling. There is a whole class of invisible people to you guys. See the professor up thread. It's not just teen mom flipping burgers vs. UMC. Again--teachers, professors, scientists, healthcare workers, low-mid range IT workers. People **you** depend on to go about your life. Those people are struggling. And now with astronomical housing costs and inflation-having a house, sending your kids to a decent public school, health care, college-those things will be only affordable to the UMC. You might not care now-but as someone from a country with a huge wealth gap--it will impact you eventually. It already is in many places in the US (rising crime, etc).

I live in Loudoun. There are lots of these types, married to each other, living a nice life in a 3br townhouse or small SFH zoned to good schools. Its perfectly doable.

How much do those SFH and townhouses cost these days?