Dinner party in Europe: Americans look older, more tired, are more unhealthy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, PP above, just realized that this was a health-specific post and not a general life post. But I guess it's all related.

The universal health care discussion belongs in politics and the work one belongs in jobs.
But yes, our health care (tied to our jobs) and our jobs that we need so we can eat and not be homeless suck. I don't know OP's point in rubbing that in our faces? Thanks?

This. And also the fact that these are AFFLUENT Europeans, not MC/LMC. Also retired and middle aged and probably with grown up kids who get free college education for the most part, so there is no agony over this. Then maybe some of these ppl were childless? Childless retired ppl always look better off as their lifestyle is largely self centered. Did OP notice who younger generation is doing in Europe? That's what matters more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

France can no longer sustain the low retirement age. They have serious financial problems and have to raise the minimum retirement age.

Greece has ongoing serious financial issues. Everyone wants to work government jobs, i.e. get paid for not working. Those with hustle only want payment in cash. Everyone wants to retire at 40. No one pays taxes. This model is not sustainable.

[Anonymous]

The Japanese work more overtime than the U.S. or Europe, but they still look young and fit. Must be diet.

[Anonymous]

More stress and uncertainty about one's financial future (esp. in vulnerable old age) in the USA for sure. It's worse than even Eastern Europe (my close friend is from there and I know a few things). Stress is what leads to poor habits like eating badly, drinking too much or getting on a train of prescription mood/anxiety/depression drugs. Everyone picks their poison or coping mechanism. Also our mentality is diseased when it comes to how much we need, just read Finance forums here on retirement and you will learn you can't retire until you get 10mil cash If we put ourselves on this type of "treadmill", no wonder we aren't doing well even in well-off UMC circles. Poor, LMC and MC have different sets of problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cheerios in the states contain chemicals not permitted in Cheerios in Europe.

I want to hear more about this and other foods that are different, and how do I start avoiding them in the US

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

That's why OP's post is rather myopic. It deals with ppl who already "made it" and probably care less what younger generation has to go through. Health of a nation is determined by large where it's young gen is and their upward mobility, mental and physical health, access to healthcare/education and ability to retire one day.

France can no longer sustain the low retirement age. They have serious financial problems and have to raise the minimum retirement age.

Greece has ongoing serious financial issues. Everyone wants to work government jobs, i.e. get paid for not working. Those with hustle only want payment in cash. Everyone wants to retire at 40. No one pays taxes. This model is not sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

France can no longer sustain the low retirement age. They have serious financial problems and have to raise the minimum retirement age.

Greece has ongoing serious financial issues. Everyone wants to work government jobs, i.e. get paid for not working. Those with hustle only want payment in cash. Everyone wants to retire at 40. No one pays taxes. This model is not sustainable.

That's why OP's post is rather myopic. It deals with ppl who already "made it" and probably care less what younger generation has to go through. Health of a nation is determined by large where it's young gen is and their upward mobility, mental and physical health, access to healthcare/education and ability to retire one day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheerios in the states contain chemicals not permitted in Cheerios in Europe.

I want to hear more about this and other foods that are different, and how do I start avoiding them in the US

There's a very long thread in this forum on this topic, started earlier this year. Find it, you'll read everything you need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Japanese work more overtime than the U.S. or Europe, but they still look young and fit. Must be diet.

They have no kids. That's the secret.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

France can no longer sustain the low retirement age. They have serious financial problems and have to raise the minimum retirement age.

Greece has ongoing serious financial issues. Everyone wants to work government jobs, i.e. get paid for not working. Those with hustle only want payment in cash. Everyone wants to retire at 40. No one pays taxes. This model is not sustainable.

You forgot to add Italy to your list. My uncles, aunts, cousins all live there. I'm from there. Those cousins of mine are lucky to have the jobs they have, which are low-level municipal office jobs or blue collar jobs which were basically handed down to them by their fathers or uncles. Try being an outsider looking for a halfway decent job, very difficult. My uncle was a mail carrier for his entire working career. He was looked upon by his friends as one of the lucky ones that got such a coveted and secure job. There's very little in the way of entrepreneurship in much of Europe. It's a different mentality. You are born into your socio-economic class and there's a high chance that this is exactly where you'll stay. So if you know this already at the age of let's say 25, why bother working hard to try to achieve anything greater - it's likely never going to happen so just go on vacation for the entire month of August. It's not like its going to kill your career, or that all of your peers are leapfrogging over you in their careers while you lounge around on the beaches of Positano. No because they're all right there on the chaise lounge right next to you.

Trust me when I tell you, life there (most of Europe) is not that great if you're anything below upper middle class. At least in the US you can be born to a single mother, living in a shelter, and somehow make it out and make something of yourself.

[Anonymous]

I'm European and I feel the need to add my thoughts here. In the US it seems acceptable in certain places (DMV) to be grossly overweight, almost as a sign of success, but in Europe this isn't the case at all. It's a sign of indulgence and perhaps even greed, which are not signifiers of intellectual, cultural or ethically successful people, just greedy people.

Obesity has increased in Europe, exponentially over the past 20-30 years. That is also true, especially amongst the poorer members of society.

I have more to say but I don't want to start a fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

France can no longer sustain the low retirement age. They have serious financial problems and have to raise the minimum retirement age.

Greece has ongoing serious financial issues. Everyone wants to work government jobs, i.e. get paid for not working. Those with hustle only want payment in cash. Everyone wants to retire at 40. No one pays taxes. This model is not sustainable.

You forgot to add Italy to your list. My uncles, aunts, cousins all live there. I'm from there. Those cousins of mine are lucky to have the jobs they have, which are low-level municipal office jobs or blue collar jobs which were basically handed down to them by their fathers or uncles. Try being an outsider looking for a halfway decent job, very difficult. My uncle was a mail carrier for his entire working career. He was looked upon by his friends as one of the lucky ones that got such a coveted and secure job. There's very little in the way of entrepreneurship in much of Europe. It's a different mentality. You are born into your socio-economic class and there's a high chance that this is exactly where you'll stay. So if you know this already at the age of let's say 25, why bother working hard to try to achieve anything greater - it's likely never going to happen so just go on vacation for the entire month of August. It's not like its going to kill your career, or that all of your peers are leapfrogging over you in their careers while you lounge around on the beaches of Positano. No because they're all right there on the chaise lounge right next to you.

Trust me when I tell you, life there (most of Europe) is not that great if you're anything below upper middle class. At least in the US you can be born to a single mother, living in a shelter, and somehow make it out and make something of yourself.

This can be true and it can also be true that Europeans are healthier and have access to better quality food that doesn’t hurt their health the same way.

It’s not all or nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cheerios in the states contain chemicals not permitted in Cheerios in Europe.

Here is a crazy idea. Stop eating processed “food” for breakfast. Maybe that’s the problem here.

You can have a healthy lifestyle in the US if you try to and stop buying shelf stable garbage in the middle of the grocery store.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: So, after one dinner party, you decided ALL Europeans are healthy and ALL Americans are tired out?

Of course OP never said that.
She was struck by the contrast and posted her observation.

I also think Europeans have a better quality of life.

They have an objectively better health care system.

They feel no need for McMansions and big cars. They value family, good food, etc.

If you think our country is so enviable, you have not been paying attention to what is going on politically or the gun violence we have grown accustomed to.

Yet all of the European doctors that work in the US all own large McMansions and luxury big cars.

They are Americans now.

They have chosen what they prefer. Most of their peers did not emigrate.

Don’t generalize about European doctors based upon physicians who chose to leave Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 56 and my big stressor right now is getting two kids through college, plus care of my disabled spouse.

We have some college money saved but not a ton. I was planning on paying for much of college from my paycheck but then my spouse had to leave work so now we are living on my paycheck plus his disability. Even with our reduced income, there's not a lot of financial aid for our kids, though. I'm also still trying to save for retirement, and to keep my job to keep our health insurance.

I don't know what our life would be like with the equivalent circumstances in different EU countries, but I think they may have better support for the disabled, and I think college costs are less of a factor as well.

Many kids don't go to college in the UK. They get funneled to trade schools.

The UK is not part of Europe.