Dinner party in Europe: Americans look older, more tired, are more unhealthy

[Anonymous]

I always wonder about the lives of the people who feel compelled to post things like this.

[Anonymous]

I can’t stand threads like these. Please believe me, I have lived all of the world serving in the foreign service. 1. The difference in weight for people I work with is no different whether they are at home or overseas. Not a single person has remarked a difference in weight due to a move to Europe or somewhere else. We all stay stable or there is weight gain due to lifestyle choices/age. 2. Anyone who has lived in those countries (visiting for a few weeks doesn’t count) knows that these people have nothing to be smug about. Every government has their serious drawbacks and their populace is ballooning in weight just like the US. I see it everywhere I go. They have plenty of stressors, usually financial. Take off your rose colored glasses please. You have it pretty good in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

Sample bias.

[Anonymous]

Check out the personal debt loads in Scandinavia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

Why don’t you move to Europe then.

[Anonymous]

Do we really need yet another “Europe is perfect, America sucks” post on a message board dominated by people living at the top of the US pyramid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These were friends of friends who live in Europe. They were French, German, Portuguese, and Swedish. Most people were 55+. They were decently well-off but not rich. Many were already retired.

Throughout the whole night, nobody compulsively looked at their phones. The only phone use was to take pictures and play music.
Not a single person was overweight.
Everyone looked 10-20 years younger. And yes one of them smoked, they all drank, they all spent time in the sun.
Everyone was vibrant and happy.
Everyone had so much energy and positivity, much more than 30-40something Americans. Nobody was tired.
Nobody complained of ailments or back problems or excessive medications.

I asked how everyone lived so well and looked so great. They said it was because they had universal healthcare, less stress, great food, and didnt feel beaten down by work throughout their lives.

America is doing it wrong.

Did these Europeans live in the US at some point? I don’t know any European that would mention universal healthcare as a reason for their wellbeing UNLESS they live or lived in a place where that isn’t the case.

Visited, but not lived. The mutual American friends had left the US because of the healthcare system.

Also worth mentioning: they ate sweets, but not excessively. Nobody even mentioned anything about weight or dieting.
Also absent from any dinnertime discussion was work. I couldn’t tell you what everyone did or used to do for a living. Nobody talked about Covid, money, or other people’s expectations.
They also minimally discussed politics, only to make fun of Trump and the idea that Americans could elect him to serve office from jail or something like that, and they mentioned that their own governments weren’t perfect but nobody wanted a U.S.-type system.

There are things with their lifestyle that would appeal to the political left and right. As I said, the emphasis on health and well-being over work was the main reason why everyone was so energetic and healthy and happy. Healthcare, vacation time, and fewer work hours contribute to this. But the other thing was more family-oriented culture and less obsession with identity and gender. Women were happily feminine in their own way and men were happily masculine in their own way. Nobody was complaining about The Patriarchy or sexism, they also weren’t bigoted either, just normal and not in a bind about everything.

It’s a small representative size and yes I have traveled in Europe many times before, mostly before the pandemic. But this was an interesting case where multiple people, older people, from different countries shared their experiences “in the wild” not in a tourism setting. My takeaway is that American-style capitalism, private healthcare, high fructose corn syrup and processed foods, and stress are more detrimental to our health than anything else. This is a sick country and we are doing so much wrong that it’s a complete farce to say we’re the best.
That, and there’s this overall trend in raising age of retirement, especially the actual age where retirement is feasible for most people, and lowering life expectancy, it’s like the nest egg and golden years are all a scam to make you work harder and enjoy life less.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do we really need yet another “Europe is perfect, America sucks” post on a message board dominated by people living at the top of the US pyramid?

Exactly. Another reason we don’t need one is that we can always count on a European living in the USA to jump in and tell us how great Europe is as well. Oh, the irony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stand threads like these. Please believe me, I have lived all of the world serving in the foreign service. 1. The difference in weight for people I work with is no different whether they are at home or overseas. Not a single person has remarked a difference in weight due to a move to Europe or somewhere else. We all stay stable or there is weight gain due to lifestyle choices/age. 2. Anyone who has lived in those countries (visiting for a few weeks doesn’t count) knows that these people have nothing to be smug about. Every government has their serious drawbacks and their populace is ballooning in weight just like the US. I see it everywhere I go. They have plenty of stressors, usually financial. Take off your rose colored glasses please. You have it pretty good in America.

+1. Where America is doing it wrong is our education system. It’s what allows a person like OP to think they can make generalizations about an entire continent based off a single vacation dinner party with only 55+ attendees. Idiocy.

[Anonymous]

Well, this is the health forum and objectively speaking, Europe is healthier than the US. Look at life expectancy, infant mortality, obesity and heart disease, reliance on medications, mental health and overall happiness.

The money forums and the politics forums can, and do, arrive at different conclusions vis-a-vis Europe vs. USA.

[Anonymous]

I really idealized Europe, then I lived in Italy for a year. I still think that some fundamental things are better than here - gun violence being the absolute number one factor that would make me prefer to be there. It was so amazing to send my kids to school, or let them walk around the city, and know that there was basically no chance of them being shot randomly.

Probably the second most amazing thing was all the walking we did in our daily lives, because we lived near an urban center. We ate lots of great food all the time and didn't gain weight, just because we didn't have a car and we walked to do every errand. And as soon as we got back here we (well, ok, I) gained about 5lbs, either from the food or the different exercise.

But, we were there as relatively privileged Americans, and I could see that for people who actually spend their lives there, there are huge trade-offs. Italy's economy is pretty stagnant (and some of these issues are true in many countries in Europe). There are very few opportunities for young people (like under 40), even with a good education. Related to that I think, people aren't having children. They have a huge older population that needs care and is going to need more - where will it come from? They have an increasing number of immigrants doing service jobs (if they are lucky), but they are totally marginalized and treated with racism and derision - much more than here, I think. It's very, very difficult for them to become citizens, so that marginalization often continues into the next generation.

Then there's the culture. Of course it's beyond beautiful. At the same time, I found it to be rather oppressive. Italians have so many opinions about the right way to do things (eat, dress, behave). Of course, they eat, dress, and behave beautifully - but I missed the more impulsive or spontaneous culture of the US. I also really missed the incredible diversity we have here. I missed seeing people of all colors and backgrounds doing all kinds of different things. Not romanticizing and of course there are terrible issues here related to racism, but you just sense that there is greater mobility and opportunity here - for everybody. (Obviously, there is also so much less of a social safety net here, so it's a big trade-off.)

And (to be frank, and I'm not proud of this) I missed our big old washing machines and dryers, our wide straight even roads, and more generally the wide open spaces we have here.

But still, the gun problem here might be enough to send us back to Europe at some point.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, PP above, just realized that this was a health-specific post and not a general life post. But I guess it's all related.

[Anonymous]

Europe doesn’t allow chemicals in the food. I can eat cheese there, for instance, but cheese here usually makes me sick.

I walk more in Europe. In the US, I walk 1-4 miles a day. In Europe, I walk 7-20. Granted, I’d not walk 20 miles if I lived in Europe but I’d still walk more.

But you are seeing just a slice of life there. In England, for example, the alcohol doesn’t sit well with drinkers and older people look bloated and red faced.

[Anonymous]

Is OP trolling?

I’m 62 and early retired. Many of my friends and similarly aged family members are already retired as well. We raised our family in NOVA. Not a single one of us is obese (not that it would matter to me, and how awful on you for fat shaming) and most of us enjoy excellent health.

When WE get together, we’re not on our phones. WE don’t talk about work because we don’t have to. WE talk about family. WE only talk about politics to say how crazy Americans are for electing Trump.

Should I go on?

I’ve been to a Europe many times. Been all over the world many times, in fact. People are the same everywhere. It’s a class thing and a generational thing. Try having a dinner party for the younger generation of Europeans and I guarantee you the conversations will be different. They’re very, very worried that their countries won’t be able to afford the same social welfare and health care systems that are making things so (allegedly) good for their parents right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stand threads like these. Please believe me, I have lived all of the world serving in the foreign service. 1. The difference in weight for people I work with is no different whether they are at home or overseas. Not a single person has remarked a difference in weight due to a move to Europe or somewhere else. We all stay stable or there is weight gain due to lifestyle choices/age. 2. Anyone who has lived in those countries (visiting for a few weeks doesn’t count) knows that these people have nothing to be smug about. Every government has their serious drawbacks and their populace is ballooning in weight just like the US. I see it everywhere I go. They have plenty of stressors, usually financial. Take off your rose colored glasses please. You have it pretty good in America.

While I’m not convinced living in a different country with the foreign service (or military or other situation where you primarily work and interact with people of your own country) is necessarily the same as people who live there as members of the community full time, I think the boldes is really really true. There’s problems everywhere and it’s easy to visit another country and see how they do things better than your country. It’s also easy to move to another country only to realize later the things your home country does well that you hadn’t even thought of until you didn’t have them.