Good alternatives to UVA/WM with merit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Do they find UVA more appealing or W&M? That preference would tend to lead to different target/safety schools.

Within your distance limit, I know kids who wanted UVA who are now at U of SC, U Mass, Rochester although more ended up at JMU, VT, or VCU (the pre-meds at VCU)
Those who liked W&M are at schools like Dickinson, Mount Holyoke, SMCM.

Right now they think W&M but DH and I went there so they are probably biased although we’ve really tried to remain neutral (and we truly don’t care!) Our main fear is they get shut out of both. Not that excited about either Tech or JMU.

I get it. I have one kid at VT who really didn't like W&M while my other liked W&M but not UVA or VT. She applied to a range of LACs. I still insisted on an in-state safety so she applied to UMW, which is the closest in Virginia in size/style to W&M. I'd recommend you start visiting some LACs that have potential to come in similar to or less than the cost of W&M (generally rank in the 50-80 range on the USNWR list). Also, Jesuit schools tend to be similar in size to W&M so some of the less-selective ones might be good options too.

OP here. I guess this where I am confused. Where do I look to get an idea of which schools would have any chance of being affordable to us with merit aid. I don't want to apply a bunch of places we have no hope of affording.

There are ample resources for this online and in books (e.g. https://thecollegesolution.com) but off the top of my head, my kids got $$$ from these schools:

Case Western Reserve
U. Pittsburgh
Oberlin
Denison
Clark
Juniata
Allegheny
Ohio Wesleyan
U. Mary Washington
UMBC

Several years ago U. Rochester gave my high-stats (1600 SAT/4.0 UW GPA) kid $9K, which didn't move the needle at all. (Now, the average non-need-based scholarship or grant awarded to first-year students at University of Rochester is $15,133.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

I think generally once you get below the 50s all the LACs pretty reliably give merit. So then you narrow down by location, academic interests, ECs, etc.

My DD was interested in W&M but not enough that she was willing to ED. She was waitlisted in RD. Her top interests were a strong environmental science program, reasonable drive from home, opportunities to continue music. Her list included Juniata, SMCM, Allegheny, Washington College, Dickinson, Mt Holyoke. Dickinson and Mount Holyoke were too expensive. The others came in around $30k.

These schools are well below William & Mary, which is fine - except there are several state schools in VA that are just as good and just as cheap.

I’m still confused by OP. Is she saying “look, my kid is only going in state if she gets into UVA or William & Mary. If she doesn’t get into either, what out of states schools are available to her with merit”.

The answer it all depends on her stats, but if she’s not getting into UVA and William and Mary she’s not getting a lot of money from any school that is even close to them in terms of quality and reputation. Good schools may take her - but they won’t throw money at her.

Well, yeah. But especially if you like W&M, what are the most similar(ish) in-state options -- CNU, UMW. If those don't appeal, there are a lot of LACs that will match W&M's price (although still more than other VA schools) and may be more appealing. That's my DD's list above. She really didn't want to go in-state and found schools that fit our budget and had what she wanted. She's happy and so are we. Yes, we could have said you have to go UMW but why when other schools had stronger programs for her particular interest.

If you like UVA, the best VA alternatives are probably JMU/VT which OP's kid isn't excited about. I'd tell them they still need to apply to those to keep their options open while also considering OOS flagships that give merit.

Are the LACs that will match W&M any better than UMW or UVA Wise?

Depends on what is "better" for the individual. It's not a 1-size-fits-all answer.

Translation: no.

You really can't understand that some particular major might be stronger at a mid-range LAC vs UMW? If the price is in similar range UMW isn't giving you some name recognition bump so it makes sense to consider the details of what a school offers. Better major, certain activities, social fit, want to get out of VA, whatever. Why force a kid to UMW or UVA-Wise when they can find a better fit for them at a similar price elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

UMW is the standard W&M safety. UNC-Asheville is pretty reasonable for OOS. Case Western sometimes comes through with big bucks.

[Anonymous]

My kid got big bucks from CWRU which made it cheaper than UVA (in state) since he would’ve done engineering there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Think what you want about the school and its location. Doesn’t change what I just said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. I know of several cases where kids got great merit from target schools. Don’t know of any from schools on a par with W&M or UVA. Not saying it doesn’t happen but chances better if aiming just a bit lower.

One of my kids had no interest in UVA, despite having the stats for it. They applied to William and Mary, Carleton and Grinnell among others. They got into all three, and Grinnell offered a substantial merit award. It did not lower the cost to the point of it being even with William and Mary completely, but it widely bridged the gap. They chose Grinnell. I would say that Grinnell and William and Mary are on par academically.

You an say he or she. Really. We don’t care and won’t search you out. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

[Anonymous]

Miami of Ohio, Florida State. Lots of less-than-tippy-top state universities give merit. At some it’s automatic based on GPA & test scores, at others it won’t be as predictable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. I know of several cases where kids got great merit from target schools. Don’t know of any from schools on a par with W&M or UVA. Not saying it doesn’t happen but chances better if aiming just a bit lower.

One of my kids had no interest in UVA, despite having the stats for it. They applied to William and Mary, Carleton and Grinnell among others. They got into all three, and Grinnell offered a substantial merit award. It did not lower the cost to the point of it being even with William and Mary completely, but it widely bridged the gap. They chose Grinnell. I would say that Grinnell and William and Mary are on par academically.

You an say he or she. Really. We don’t care and won’t search you out. 🙄

And they can say they. Really we don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree. I know of several cases where kids got great merit from target schools. Don’t know of any from schools on a par with W&M or UVA. Not saying it doesn’t happen but chances better if aiming just a bit lower.

One of my kids had no interest in UVA, despite having the stats for it. They applied to William and Mary, Carleton and Grinnell among others. They got into all three, and Grinnell offered a substantial merit award. It did not lower the cost to the point of it being even with William and Mary completely, but it widely bridged the gap. They chose Grinnell. I would say that Grinnell and William and Mary are on par academically.

You an say he or she. Really. We don’t care and won’t search you out. 🙄

And they can say they. Really we don't care.

Thanks.

I really don’t get the venom being thrown at me for responding to what I thought was OP question. Now that she’s refined it, I get that she’s basically asking “where’s a good out of state school that gives merit aid for a strong student who isn’t admitted to UVA or William & Mary and won’t go to another in state school?” I thought she was asking “where’s a good school for a kid admitted to UVA or William and Mary who wants to go out of state where they’ll get enough merit aid so going there instead makes financial sense?” That’s why I suggested Grinnell and later clarified that a kid who isn’t admitted to UVA or William &
Mary in state is unlikely to get into Grinnell at all - then again get merit aid.

No good deed goes unpunished on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Roanoke College for a strong SLAC in VA that gives merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Roanoke College for a strong SLAC in VA that gives merit.

Roanoke is ranked 120th. Not sure that qualifies as strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.