Good alternatives to UVA/WM with merit?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

Oh My Lord. It’s the crazy SCHEV poster who continues to insist that VA public high school counselors direct/force kids to go to certain schools so they can keep their jobs. This is such bullshit. VA public high school counselors are far too busy and stretched with far too many students to provide that kind of individual attention even if they wanted to. Besides, even if they were doing that they would be doing a terrible job at it, considering that only 27% of the students that they are “directing“ to UVA are actually getting in.

UVA is not “self-selecting” in the slightest. It’s a large state school with a national reputation where many students simply throw their hats into the admissions ring to see what happens. No school with 53,000 applicants is “self selecting.”

Grinnell, on the other hand, is the very definition of “self-selecting.” Given its isolated location and quirky reputation, many excellent students don’t even consider throwing in an application. If the school were located in the Northeast, it would be on the same selectivity level as Williams or Amherst.

+100

Agreed. No state school is self-selecting for in-state students. In-state tuition is quite the built in selection mechanism.

No one said that for Virginia, lthough it is true for Texas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

Oh My Lord. It’s the crazy SCHEV poster who continues to insist that VA public high school counselors direct/force kids to go to certain schools so they can keep their jobs. This is such bullshit. VA public high school counselors are far too busy and stretched with far too many students to provide that kind of individual attention even if they wanted to. Besides, even if they were doing that they would be doing a terrible job at it, considering that only 27% of the students that they are “directing“ to UVA are actually getting in.

UVA is not “self-selecting” in the slightest. It’s a large state school with a national reputation where many students simply throw their hats into the admissions ring to see what happens. No school with 53,000 applicants is “self selecting.”

Grinnell, on the other hand, is the very definition of “self-selecting.” Given its isolated location and quirky reputation, many excellent students don’t even consider throwing in an application. If the school were located in the Northeast, it would be on the same selectivity level as Williams or Amherst.

+100

Agreed. No state school is self-selecting for in-state students. In-state tuition is quite the built in selection mechanism.

No one said that for Virginia, lthough it is true for Texas

You don’t know what self-selecting means. Clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

Oh My Lord. It’s the crazy SCHEV poster who continues to insist that VA public high school counselors direct/force kids to go to certain schools so they can keep their jobs. This is such bullshit. VA public high school counselors are far too busy and stretched with far too many students to provide that kind of individual attention even if they wanted to. Besides, even if they were doing that they would be doing a terrible job at it, considering that only 27% of the students that they are “directing“ to UVA are actually getting in.

UVA is not “self-selecting” in the slightest. It’s a large state school with a national reputation where many students simply throw their hats into the admissions ring to see what happens. No school with 53,000 applicants is “self selecting.”

Grinnell, on the other hand, is the very definition of “self-selecting.” Given its isolated location and quirky reputation, many excellent students don’t even consider throwing in an application. If the school were located in the Northeast, it would be on the same selectivity level as Williams or Amherst.

+100

Agreed. No state school is self-selecting for in-state students. In-state tuition is quite the built in selection mechanism.

No one said that for Virginia, lthough it is true for Texas

You don’t know what self-selecting means. Clearly.

Actually, I do. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

This theory has been debunked on here time and time again

Maybe you’re from a lower tier school in FCPS? The PP‘s comment is absolutely the case for schools like Langley and Mclean and a few other high-performing of FCPS schools.

+1. The theory has never been debunked. Parents just don’t want to hear it. When my own DS sweetly asked about UVA for his during our college counseling session, the public counselor very on the fly (as in experienced) responded with a show of the SCHEV charts and more importantly Naviance to indicate to DS in a kind way tgst there wasn’t a chance in hell that he was getting into UVA. He then asked about Swarthmore (??? Where did that come from? You know kids … and how they talk) and again she showed him the stats . She suggested High point, Gettysburg , Drexel and, Davidson and GMU and she went to GMU

Um, these top SLACs — including Grinnell — are also more selective than out-of-state admission is to Virginia. Anyhow, you are using a guidance counselor who recommends Swarthmore over in-state UVA as “proof” this theory has not been debunked. The only thing this proves is that your counselor needs to get their head examined.

Learn to read. My own kid suggested SWAT. I have no idea where that came from as I so indicated. Our counselor was fine. She was realistic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

This theory has been debunked on here time and time again

Maybe you’re from a lower tier school in FCPS? The PP‘s comment is absolutely the case for schools like Langley and Mclean and a few other high-performing of FCPS schools.

+1. The theory has never been debunked. Parents just don’t want to hear it. When my own DS sweetly asked about UVA for his during our college counseling session, the public counselor very on the fly (as in experienced) responded with a show of the SCHEV charts and more importantly Naviance to indicate to DS in a kind way tgst there wasn’t a chance in hell that he was getting into UVA. He then asked about Swarthmore (??? Where did that come from? You know kids … and how they talk) and again she showed him the stats . She suggested High point, Gettysburg , Drexel and, Davidson and GMU and she went to GMU

Yet your kid could still apply to uva. The counselor was not a “gatekeeper” as the debunked poster claims. [/quote]


Of course they could apply to UVA. And the PP never said "gatekeeper" as in refusal to allow an application to UVA, but let me tell you what happens if you push on that. So there you are with a B student at Langley. She has no APs. She has no national awards. She is sweet and well-respected but that's about it. So you are suggesting I force an application to UVA? So this is what happens. The counselor shows us the Naviance and SCHEV results for Langley high school which indicate no chance. We arrogant parents (I guess that's what you are suggesting) insist she apply. The counselor comes up with a list of reaches, targets and safeties. We spend the money to apply. Meanwhile, I doubt you know that the high school counselor herself writes a letter to the public universities in VA. Let's agree 80 from Langley apply. What special things are she going to say about our DD who is way below all of the other students? She would clearly be no 81. Then there is the most rigorous box. The counselor can't mark that off for our daughter. She didn't even take the "very rigorous" courses. She has no APs. Then the counselor has to get two more teacher recommendations. What are they going to say that is special about our daughter with the other 80 superstars applying? Then there is the student profile submitted by the school to UVA and all other schools which will clearly indicate she is a B average student, way below her peers with no AP classes.

So now the application, which we've paid for, goes o UVA and the paid-by-the-hour reader looks at it and says WTF? and sends it to trash. The regional representative never sees it of course. The other 80 are sorted through. 45 lucky kids get in. 20 tke off for Ivie and the rest show up at UVA. Now how on earth did that process help my daughter's self-esteem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

Oh My Lord. It’s the crazy SCHEV poster who continues to insist that VA public high school counselors direct/force kids to go to certain schools so they can keep their jobs. This is such bullshit. VA public high school counselors are far too busy and stretched with far too many students to provide that kind of individual attention even if they wanted to. Besides, even if they were doing that they would be doing a terrible job at it, considering that only 27% of the students that they are “directing“ to UVA are actually getting in.

UVA is not “self-selecting” in the slightest. It’s a large state school with a national reputation where many students simply throw their hats into the admissions ring to see what happens. No school with 53,000 applicants is “self selecting.”

Grinnell, on the other hand, is the very definition of “self-selecting.” Given its isolated location and quirky reputation, many excellent students don’t even consider throwing in an application. If the school were located in the Northeast, it would be on the same selectivity level as Williams or Amherst.

+100

Agreed. No state school is self-selecting for in-state students. In-state tuition is quite the built in selection mechanism.

No one said that for Virginia, lthough it is true for Texas

You don’t know what self-selecting means. Clearly.

Actually, I do. AMA

No, you don’t. You appear to think the Texas is a good example of a “self selecting“ state college system, because the University of Texas guarantees admission to the top 10% of the graduating class of every high school in the state. That is not what a “self selecting” college is.

A self selecting college is a college that is primarily attractive to a small and more narrowly defined group of students, the result being that students more generally don’t even apply to it so the school is actually more selective than it appears on paper to be.

[Anonymous]

Plenty of kids apply to uva knowing it’s a major reach despite the high school counseling saying admission is unlikely. If counselors are guiding the right students to uva then why is the admit rate so low?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

This theory has been debunked on here time and time again

Maybe you’re from a lower tier school in FCPS? The PP‘s comment is absolutely the case for schools like Langley and Mclean and a few other high-performing of FCPS schools.

+1. The theory has never been debunked. Parents just don’t want to hear it. When my own DS sweetly asked about UVA for his during our college counseling session, the public counselor very on the fly (as in experienced) responded with a show of the SCHEV charts and more importantly Naviance to indicate to DS in a kind way tgst there wasn’t a chance in hell that he was getting into UVA. He then asked about Swarthmore (??? Where did that come from? You know kids … and how they talk) and again she showed him the stats . She suggested High point, Gettysburg , Drexel and, Davidson and GMU and she went to GMU

Yet your kid could still apply to uva. The counselor was not a “gatekeeper” as the debunked poster claims. [/quote]


Of course they could apply to UVA. And the PP never said "gatekeeper" as in refusal to allow an application to UVA, but let me tell you what happens if you push on that. So there you are with a B student at Langley. She has no APs. She has no national awards. She is sweet and well-respected but that's about it. So you are suggesting I force an application to UVA? So this is what happens. The counselor shows us the Naviance and SCHEV results for Langley high school which indicate no chance. We arrogant parents (I guess that's what you are suggesting) insist she apply. The counselor comes up with a list of reaches, targets and safeties. We spend the money to apply. Meanwhile, I doubt you know that the high school counselor herself writes a letter to the public universities in VA. Let's agree 80 from Langley apply. What special things are she going to say about our DD who is way below all of the other students? She would clearly be no 81. Then there is the most rigorous box. The counselor can't mark that off for our daughter. She didn't even take the "very rigorous" courses. She has no APs. Then the counselor has to get two more teacher recommendations. What are they going to say that is special about our daughter with the other 80 superstars applying? Then there is the student profile submitted by the school to UVA and all other schools which will clearly indicate she is a B average student, way below her peers with no AP classes.

So now the application, which we've paid for, goes o UVA and the paid-by-the-hour reader looks at it and says WTF? and sends it to trash. The regional representative never sees it of course. The other 80 are sorted through. 45 lucky kids get in. 20 tke off for Ivie and the rest show up at UVA. Now how on earth did that process help my daughter's self-esteem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all. To clarify, I’m looking at options for students with high stats and an in-state budget who still may get rejected from W&M/UVA, but the student is not that excited about Tech/JMU as alternative schools. I understand to get merit they won’t be as highly ranked at WM/UVA. Where else should we look? Thanks to those who already answered.

OP here. Should add that we want DC to be within a 6-8 hour drive. Don’t want to deal with airfare and such. So probably places like Grinnell are out, although I’m sure it’s lovely.

Ha ha. If you’re kid doesn’t get into UVA or William and Mary in state they sure as hell aren’t getting into Grinnell either - especially with merit. Grinnell had a 10 percent acceptance rate last year. So you needn’t worry about it.

Ick. Drugs, isolated, freezing cold weather, lack of diverse viewpoints—- and, where the heck is the nearest emergency room?!?

Glad you love it, good for you!

Gosh. And it is a way tougher admit than in-state UVA. What must applicants be thinking?

I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into UVA

UVA: 27% overall in-state admissions rate. “I don’t think you know how difficult it is to get into [Grinnell].”

Apples and oranges. No way anyone could think Grinnell is more competitive than UVA.

+1. The 53,000 who applied to UVA are a more self-selecting group than the few thousand who apply to Grinnell.. This is because of the availability of the SCHEV statistics, Naviance and public high school college counselors whose job it is to route the public students to the most appropriate in-state institution. No Langley counselor is going to help my B student DD get in to UVA when she is clearly GMU material (and that’s exactly what happened). So only the high fliers with a 4.53, 1520 SAT or 34 ACT apply to UVA. These are the top 5% and …. those who have taken the most rigorous courses offered at the high school. And tge counselor indicates all of this is his recommendation and in the high school profile. If a kid wants to shoot an application to Grinnell on the way, sure hope for it , the public high school doesn’t care but it does care when it’s top 5 percent if students are competing against one another for the same coveted slots at UVA. The same happens for the UCLA schools, which is why you can’t compare selectivity numbers if a top public to that if a small SLAC

This theory has been debunked on here time and time again

Maybe you’re from a lower tier school in FCPS? The PP‘s comment is absolutely the case for schools like Langley and Mclean and a few other high-performing of FCPS schools.

+1. The theory has never been debunked. Parents just don’t want to hear it. When my own DS sweetly asked about UVA for his during our college counseling session, the public counselor very on the fly (as in experienced) responded with a show of the SCHEV charts and more importantly Naviance to indicate to DS in a kind way tgst there wasn’t a chance in hell that he was getting into UVA. He then asked about Swarthmore (??? Where did that come from? You know kids … and how they talk) and again she showed him the stats . She suggested High point, Gettysburg , Drexel and, Davidson and GMU and she went to GMU

Yet your kid could still apply to uva. The counselor was not a “gatekeeper” as the debunked poster claims. [/quote]


Of course they could apply to UVA. And the PP never said "gatekeeper" as in refusal to allow an application to UVA, but let me tell you what happens if you push on that. So there you are with a B student at Langley. She has no APs. She has no national awards. She is sweet and well-respected but that's about it. So you are suggesting I force an application to UVA? So this is what happens. The counselor shows us the Naviance and SCHEV results for Langley high school which indicate no chance. We arrogant parents (I guess that's what you are suggesting) insist she apply. The counselor comes up with a list of reaches, targets and safeties. We spend the money to apply. Meanwhile, I doubt you know that the high school counselor herself writes a letter to the public universities in VA. Let's agree 80 from Langley apply. What special things are she going to say about our DD who is way below all of the other students? She would clearly be no 81. Then there is the most rigorous box. The counselor can't mark that off for our daughter. She didn't even take the "very rigorous" courses. She has no APs. Then the counselor has to get two more teacher recommendations. What are they going to say that is special about our daughter with the other 80 superstars applying? Then there is the student profile submitted by the school to UVA and all other schools which will clearly indicate she is a B average student, way below her peers with no AP classes.

So now the application, which we've paid for, goes o UVA and the paid-by-the-hour reader looks at it and says WTF? and sends it to trash. The regional representative never sees it of course. The other 80 are sorted through. 45 lucky kids get in. 20 tke off for Ivie and the rest show up at UVA. Now how on earth did that process help my daughter's self-esteem?

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of kids apply to uva knowing it’s a major reach despite the high school counseling saying admission is unlikely. If counselors are guiding the right students to uva then why is the admit rate so low?

This was my DS. I could see in Naviance there was no way he was getting in to UVA but he just wanted to see It stressed me out because ultimately his preference was VT and it was nervewracking waiting for that decision since he did not want to do ED so that he could see how the others played out. Fortunately, he got lucky and did get into VT. And denied at UVA as was totally expected.