“Fleeing” to the burbs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then again, right now, parents at our title I school are interesting, mission-focused people who work in non profits and in government, and I like the idea of being in a community with those sorts of values. Then this forum makes me think that the kinds of amazing opportunities my kids would love is all in the burbs and not in dc—but maybe it’s just a grass is always greener situation. Any thoughts on how people are working through this kind of decision?

IMHO you will find your people in Takoma Park, or possibly even better, the East Silver Spring Elementary catchment because it feeds into TPMS (with its middle school magnet set-aside) and Blair, but without the TKPK property taxes!

Before you flee to TKPK, if you're not big on crime, you may want to shop around first. Check on Blair's suspension and serious incident stats. It's not the rosy picture it's cracked up to be.

Yes, Blair has those mythical consequences for bad behavior that people here are always going on about unlike schools like BCC where kids are passed out drunk in the bathrooms or various W's with non-stop antisemitic incidents.

Anyway, speaking of MCPS HSs search the board for 1326 to see a breakdown of MCPS schools by SAT and demographic cohort. It provides great insight than the bulk average. Also, check out the Bethesda Beats college edition that shows college outcomes by HS.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Don't flee. There is no need to flee. If you want to stay in DC, then stay in DC and figure it out like lots of other people do. Or, move to Montgomery County (or wherever) because you want to do that. And if you do move to Montgomery County, you do not have to move to Bethesda or Potomac.

What you are missing here is that there are very few reasonable middle school or high school options that are acceptable if you live in NE DC. So for many there, moving out of the city IS the only viable option to “figuring it out”. Where we lived our in bound high school was Dunbar. Beautiful building but serious problems for most of the kids who attend, very high truancy, teenage pregnancy, extremely low test scores. It was not an option I was comfortable with for good reason. There are also few charter options and they are all lottery. OP is asking the right questions to “figure it out”.

True but we know lots of people who did Walls or Latin or Basis instead of schools like Dunbar. And it certainly doesn’t mean you need to move when your kids are little—DCPS has very strong ECE programs and many schools are strong into the ES years. -DP

Oh you know lots of people who won a literal lottery. Great for them! But for many others it is more desirable to put down roots where your kid can stay through HS (not to mention better public college options). Moving in MS if you don’t win a lottery is far from simple.

Or you stay in DC until it doesn't work, and then you move. But if you keep playing the lottery, most people I know were able to find something they liked. I certainly wouldn't "flee" to MCPS when my kids hadn't even tried the lottery for several years.

Most people eventually find something like for elementary. There are few choices for middle and high school with moving to certain parts of DC.

If you are willing to have your kid do Basis, most people get an offer. And I know people who strategically lotteries into ES with good feeder patterns even though they were happy with their home elementary schools in order to lock in solid middle and high school choices. The point is, it's not suburbs or bust, and the overall life you lead in DC is pretty different from the overall life you lead in Montgomery County. Personally, I would rather be in DC, even though we did haul ourselves out here ten years ago in part because we needed more space.

Wrong. Waitlist goes into the 100s. And many people don’t prefer Basis to a normal school experience.

Nobody is denying that some people stay but most people don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't flee. There is no need to flee. If you want to stay in DC, then stay in DC and figure it out like lots of other people do. Or, move to Montgomery County (or wherever) because you want to do that. And if you do move to Montgomery County, you do not have to move to Bethesda or Potomac.

What you are missing here is that there are very few reasonable middle school or high school options that are acceptable if you live in NE DC. So for many there, moving out of the city IS the only viable option to “figuring it out”. Where we lived our in bound high school was Dunbar. Beautiful building but serious problems for most of the kids who attend, very high truancy, teenage pregnancy, extremely low test scores. It was not an option I was comfortable with for good reason. There are also few charter options and they are all lottery. OP is asking the right questions to “figure it out”.

True but we know lots of people who did Walls or Latin or Basis instead of schools like Dunbar. And it certainly doesn’t mean you need to move when your kids are little—DCPS has very strong ECE programs and many schools are strong into the ES years. -DP

Oh you know lots of people who won a literal lottery. Great for them! But for many others it is more desirable to put down roots where your kid can stay through HS (not to mention better public college options). Moving in MS if you don’t win a lottery is far from simple.

Or you stay in DC until it doesn't work, and then you move. But if you keep playing the lottery, most people I know were able to find something they liked. I certainly wouldn't "flee" to MCPS when my kids hadn't even tried the lottery for several years.

Most people eventually find something like for elementary. There are few choices for middle and high school with moving to certain parts of DC.

If you are willing to have your kid do Basis, most people get an offer. And I know people who strategically lotteries into ES with good feeder patterns even though they were happy with their home elementary schools in order to lock in solid middle and high school choices. The point is, it's not suburbs or bust, and the overall life you lead in DC is pretty different from the overall life you lead in Montgomery County. Personally, I would rather be in DC, even though we did haul ourselves out here ten years ago in part because we needed more space.

Wrong. Waitlist goes into the 100s. And many people don’t prefer Basis to a normal school experience.

Nobody is denying that some people stay but most people don’t.

It sounds like you need to move to the burbs if you haven't already. But there are lots of people who make it work in DC. And having a waitlist does not mean that you don't get a spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't flee. There is no need to flee. If you want to stay in DC, then stay in DC and figure it out like lots of other people do. Or, move to Montgomery County (or wherever) because you want to do that. And if you do move to Montgomery County, you do not have to move to Bethesda or Potomac.

What you are missing here is that there are very few reasonable middle school or high school options that are acceptable if you live in NE DC. So for many there, moving out of the city IS the only viable option to “figuring it out”. Where we lived our in bound high school was Dunbar. Beautiful building but serious problems for most of the kids who attend, very high truancy, teenage pregnancy, extremely low test scores. It was not an option I was comfortable with for good reason. There are also few charter options and they are all lottery. OP is asking the right questions to “figure it out”.

True but we know lots of people who did Walls or Latin or Basis instead of schools like Dunbar. And it certainly doesn’t mean you need to move when your kids are little—DCPS has very strong ECE programs and many schools are strong into the ES years. -DP

Oh you know lots of people who won a literal lottery. Great for them! But for many others it is more desirable to put down roots where your kid can stay through HS (not to mention better public college options). Moving in MS if you don’t win a lottery is far from simple.

Or you stay in DC until it doesn't work, and then you move. But if you keep playing the lottery, most people I know were able to find something they liked. I certainly wouldn't "flee" to MCPS when my kids hadn't even tried the lottery for several years.

Most people eventually find something like for elementary. There are few choices for middle and high school with moving to certain parts of DC.

If you are willing to have your kid do Basis, most people get an offer. And I know people who strategically lotteries into ES with good feeder patterns even though they were happy with their home elementary schools in order to lock in solid middle and high school choices. The point is, it's not suburbs or bust, and the overall life you lead in DC is pretty different from the overall life you lead in Montgomery County. Personally, I would rather be in DC, even though we did haul ourselves out here ten years ago in part because we needed more space.

Wrong. Waitlist goes into the 100s. And many people don’t prefer Basis to a normal school experience.

Nobody is denying that some people stay but most people don’t.

It sounds like you need to move to the burbs if you haven't already. But there are lots of people who make it work in DC. And having a waitlist does not mean that you don't get a spot.

True you might get that spot a couple years from now.

[Anonymous]

Don’t move here presuming your kid will get into magnet programming. Many more kids qualify than there are spots. Even if they get rid of the lottery, there will be many qualified kids who don’t get in — and I think the lottery is here to stay. Look at the schools you would be inbounds for and determine whether they meet your needs.

[Anonymous]

MCPS puts a lot of school-level data online, so if you're serious about moving for schools, I would take a look at that.

My advice would be to begin by looking at high schools (combined with other geographical and social preferences you might have). If you find a few HSs that look good, then it's a much easier task to then look at the MSs in the same cluster.

The DCC is a school choice-type program but it's complicated. Once you home in on HSs you like, you can look into details of the DCC if your chosen high schools are members.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/index.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS puts a lot of school-level data online, so if you're serious about moving for schools, I would take a look at that.

My advice would be to begin by looking at high schools (combined with other geographical and social preferences you might have). If you find a few HSs that look good, then it's a much easier task to then look at the MSs in the same cluster.

The DCC is a school choice-type program but it's complicated. Once you home in on HSs you like, you can look into details of the DCC if your chosen high schools are members.

https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/index.aspx

The school at a glance provides a few bulk statistics but really doesn't tell you anything all that useful. It's similar to the Great Schools ratings that mostly penalize diverse schools and tell you nothing about a community, academic opportunities, or special programs.

[Anonymous]

Take a look at the school culture surveys. I don't recall where they are, but I found them useful in comparing across schools-- particularly in perceptions of minority students/parents. There's also someplace (I think it's in that school at a glance site but I haven't checked) that has information on discipline and crime (# times police called to school and whatnot.).

I agree that test scores don't tell you much about instructional quality, but they do tell you if your kid will be surrounded by kids who (whose parents) prioritize education and that kind of thing.

(Assume teaching quality is the same across schools, for the most part.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the school culture surveys. I don't recall where they are, but I found them useful in comparing across schools-- particularly in perceptions of minority students/parents. There's also someplace (I think it's in that school at a glance site but I haven't checked) that has information on discipline and crime (# times police called to school and whatnot.).

I agree that test scores don't tell you much about instructional quality, but they do tell you if your kid will be surrounded by kids who (whose parents) prioritize education and that kind of thing.

(Assume teaching quality is the same across schools, for the most part.)

I have to disagree. Most schools have a sizable high-performing cohort. Whether there are 6 sections of AP English or 4 doesn't really matter since it's still the same curriculum. But if having more sections of an advanced clas seems important to you then you should pick the largest schools like Blair or WJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't flee. There is no need to flee. If you want to stay in DC, then stay in DC and figure it out like lots of other people do. Or, move to Montgomery County (or wherever) because you want to do that. And if you do move to Montgomery County, you do not have to move to Bethesda or Potomac.

What you are missing here is that there are very few reasonable middle school or high school options that are acceptable if you live in NE DC. So for many there, moving out of the city IS the only viable option to “figuring it out”. Where we lived our in bound high school was Dunbar. Beautiful building but serious problems for most of the kids who attend, very high truancy, teenage pregnancy, extremely low test scores. It was not an option I was comfortable with for good reason. There are also few charter options and they are all lottery. OP is asking the right questions to “figure it out”.

True but we know lots of people who did Walls or Latin or Basis instead of schools like Dunbar. And it certainly doesn’t mean you need to move when your kids are little—DCPS has very strong ECE programs and many schools are strong into the ES years. -DP

Oh you know lots of people who won a literal lottery. Great for them! But for many others it is more desirable to put down roots where your kid can stay through HS (not to mention better public college options). Moving in MS if you don’t win a lottery is far from simple.

Or you stay in DC until it doesn't work, and then you move. But if you keep playing the lottery, most people I know were able to find something they liked. I certainly wouldn't "flee" to MCPS when my kids hadn't even tried the lottery for several years.

Most people eventually find something like for elementary. There are few choices for middle and high school with moving to certain parts of DC.

If you are willing to have your kid do Basis, most people get an offer. And I know people who strategically lotteries into ES with good feeder patterns even though they were happy with their home elementary schools in order to lock in solid middle and high school choices. The point is, it's not suburbs or bust, and the overall life you lead in DC is pretty different from the overall life you lead in Montgomery County. Personally, I would rather be in DC, even though we did haul ourselves out here ten years ago in part because we needed more space.

Wrong. Waitlist goes into the 100s. And many people don’t prefer Basis to a normal school experience.

Nobody is denying that some people stay but most people don’t.

It sounds like you need to move to the burbs if you haven't already. But there are lots of people who make it work in DC. And having a waitlist does not mean that you don't get a spot.

True you might get that spot a couple years from now.

This is an ES parent perspective. For MS and HS waiting “a couple years” doesn’t work. And the charter MS options are still not great (TR, ITS).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the school culture surveys. I don't recall where they are, but I found them useful in comparing across schools-- particularly in perceptions of minority students/parents. There's also someplace (I think it's in that school at a glance site but I haven't checked) that has information on discipline and crime (# times police called to school and whatnot.).

I agree that test scores don't tell you much about instructional quality, but they do tell you if your kid will be surrounded by kids who (whose parents) prioritize education and that kind of thing.

(Assume teaching quality is the same across schools, for the most part.)

The surveys haven't been done since 2018-19. Not super relevant in 2023, especially given the amount of staff turnover at every level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the school culture surveys. I don't recall where they are, but I found them useful in comparing across schools-- particularly in perceptions of minority students/parents. There's also someplace (I think it's in that school at a glance site but I haven't checked) that has information on discipline and crime (# times police called to school and whatnot.).

I agree that test scores don't tell you much about instructional quality, but they do tell you if your kid will be surrounded by kids who (whose parents) prioritize education and that kind of thing.

(Assume teaching quality is the same across schools, for the most part.)

Where "prioritize education" means "are middle class with college educations," and "that kind of thing" also means "are middle class with college educations."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the school culture surveys. I don't recall where they are, but I found them useful in comparing across schools-- particularly in perceptions of minority students/parents. There's also someplace (I think it's in that school at a glance site but I haven't checked) that has information on discipline and crime (# times police called to school and whatnot.).

I agree that test scores don't tell you much about instructional quality, but they do tell you if your kid will be surrounded by kids who (whose parents) prioritize education and that kind of thing.

(Assume teaching quality is the same across schools, for the most part.)

Where "prioritize education" means "are middle class with college educations," and "that kind of thing" also means "are middle class with college educations."

That kind of thing seems intended to play on people's fear of desegregation in order to boost real-estate prices in certain areas. It turns out kids go on to great colleges from all over the county not just a few schools. In fact, one of my kids ended up at Blair SMCS, and the other at Wheaton Engineering. Curiously, neither is our home school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't flee. There is no need to flee. If you want to stay in DC, then stay in DC and figure it out like lots of other people do. Or, move to Montgomery County (or wherever) because you want to do that. And if you do move to Montgomery County, you do not have to move to Bethesda or Potomac.

What you are missing here is that there are very few reasonable middle school or high school options that are acceptable if you live in NE DC. So for many there, moving out of the city IS the only viable option to “figuring it out”. Where we lived our in bound high school was Dunbar. Beautiful building but serious problems for most of the kids who attend, very high truancy, teenage pregnancy, extremely low test scores. It was not an option I was comfortable with for good reason. There are also few charter options and they are all lottery. OP is asking the right questions to “figure it out”.

True but we know lots of people who did Walls or Latin or Basis instead of schools like Dunbar. And it certainly doesn’t mean you need to move when your kids are little—DCPS has very strong ECE programs and many schools are strong into the ES years. -DP

Oh you know lots of people who won a literal lottery. Great for them! But for many others it is more desirable to put down roots where your kid can stay through HS (not to mention better public college options). Moving in MS if you don’t win a lottery is far from simple.

Or you stay in DC until it doesn't work, and then you move. But if you keep playing the lottery, most people I know were able to find something they liked. I certainly wouldn't "flee" to MCPS when my kids hadn't even tried the lottery for several years.

Most people eventually find something like for elementary. There are few choices for middle and high school with moving to certain parts of DC.

If you are willing to have your kid do Basis, most people get an offer. And I know people who strategically lotteries into ES with good feeder patterns even though they were happy with their home elementary schools in order to lock in solid middle and high school choices. The point is, it's not suburbs or bust, and the overall life you lead in DC is pretty different from the overall life you lead in Montgomery County. Personally, I would rather be in DC, even though we did haul ourselves out here ten years ago in part because we needed more space.

Wrong. Waitlist goes into the 100s. And many people don’t prefer Basis to a normal school experience.

Nobody is denying that some people stay but most people don’t.

It sounds like you need to move to the burbs if you haven't already. But there are lots of people who make it work in DC. And having a waitlist does not mean that you don't get a spot.

True you might get that spot a couple years from now.

It's definitely possible to make it work in dc but there is an element of luck involved. Most people prefer a sure thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at the school culture surveys. I don't recall where they are, but I found them useful in comparing across schools-- particularly in perceptions of minority students/parents. There's also someplace (I think it's in that school at a glance site but I haven't checked) that has information on discipline and crime (# times police called to school and whatnot.).

I agree that test scores don't tell you much about instructional quality, but they do tell you if your kid will be surrounded by kids who (whose parents) prioritize education and that kind of thing.

(Assume teaching quality is the same across schools, for the most part.)

The surveys haven't been done since 2018-19. Not super relevant in 2023, especially given the amount of staff turnover at every level.

I know people talk about a national teacher shortage but MCPS seems to be doing about the same as ever. Sure, there's turnover but that's always been true. No more so now than 10 years ago.