Cities starting to ban scooters. DC to follow?

[Anonymous]

Does it really matter? ATVs are banned, but we keep seeing them and police policy doesn't allow them to chase them down to enforce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

Cool story, bro. But it’s better that hard data guides public policy and not your feelings. And there isn’t a lot of hard data that shows that scooters or cyclists come anywhere near to representing the threat that cars and other motor vehicles pose to the safety of the general public.

Hard data you say? Where is the hard data on the number of bicycles and scooters in active use? On a proportional basis I would not be surprised if bike/scooter accidents were higher than cars etc. Just using that previously cited hard data on accident fault and bicycles are the most dangerous of all proportionately.

Try a bit harder to understand the meaning of “safety of the general public”.

The hard data says that bicycles and scooters are the most dangerous (at fault fatalities per trip).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The New York Times:

By Tom Nouvian
Reporting from Paris

April 3, 2023
Updated 12:50 p.m. ET
4 MIN READ
An overwhelming majority of Parisians who took part in a referendum on rental electric scooters have voted to ban the devices from the streets of the French capital, reflecting exhaustion with a public-transit alternative that was once seen as convenient and climate-friendly but is now largely regarded as dangerous and environmentally questionable.

Heh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New York Times:

By Tom Nouvian
Reporting from Paris

April 3, 2023
Updated 12:50 p.m. ET
4 MIN READ
An overwhelming majority of Parisians who took part in a referendum on rental electric scooters have voted to ban the devices from the streets of the French capital, reflecting exhaustion with a public-transit alternative that was once seen as convenient and climate-friendly but is now largely regarded as dangerous and environmentally questionable.

Heh

Awesome. Now let’s do it in DC. We also need to ban loud car engines and swarms of ATVs/motorbikes tiding on their back whee look and blowing through lights and stop signs. But that’s whole nother thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, PP, we get it -- cars are worse than scooters. Environmentally and in terms of harming people. Yes, I agree. But we live in a society that has designated a space for cars and the cars largely stay in that space.

Motorized scooters are a new addition and there's no safe place for them in the current infrastructure. They go too fast on sidewalks to be safe for pedestrians (and yes, people on scooters act entitled to have pedestrians move out of their way even though pedestrians are using the sidewalks as designed and shouldn't be expected to yield in that space). They are not fast enough for bike lanes, and of course it would not be safe for scooters to be in car lanes.

We went through this with bikes, too -- for a long time cyclists wanted to be able to use sidewalks because they didn't like being in the street with the cars (understandably). But pedestrians need a space that is just for them.

I'd support moves to ban cars from certain streets, increase taxes on cars and driving, and change the infrastructure focus away from cars and towards public transportation and alternative modes of transit. But none of that changes my opinion on scooters, which is that they are unsafe on sidewalks and endanger pedestrians.

Maybe if we created more carless streets, scooters could use the streets. Let's lobby for that instead. Keep them away from pedestrians who need to have safe walkways preserved.

I'm 100% in favor of micromobility lanes. The solution is not to ban scooters, it's to create safe micromobility infrastructure.

The vast, vast, vast majority of pedestrians who are injured or killed in traffic are injured by drivers of cars. To say "drivers largely stay in the space designated for cars" ignores the people injured or killed when drivers go out of that car space, as well as the people injured or killed when people have to go into that car space.

Simplistic. To the extent that cars end up on sidewalks or medians and injury people, I see no obvious way to change that, except installing barriers everywhere. I am not convinced that pedestrian injuries have increased in any real sense. NYC has been crowded for a century, with faster and more aggressive drivers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can they ride in bike lanes?

Is a scooter a BIKE? No.

Therefore they have no place in BIKE lanes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

Sounds like you’re not cut out for the city, grandma. Go back to Florida.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

Cool story, bro. But it’s better that hard data guides public policy and not your feelings. And there isn’t a lot of hard data that shows that scooters or cyclists come anywhere near to representing the threat that cars and other motor vehicles pose to the safety of the general public.

Hard data you say? Where is the hard data on the number of bicycles and scooters in active use? On a proportional basis I would not be surprised if bike/scooter accidents were higher than cars etc. Just using that previously cited hard data on accident fault and bicycles are the most dangerous of all proportionately.

Try a bit harder to understand the meaning of “safety of the general public”.

The hard data says that bicycles and scooters are the most dangerous (at fault fatalities per trip).

They injure their riders. Not the general public. This shouldn't be that hard.

Bikes and scooters also generate almost no carbon emissions, take up minimal public space, are very quiet, and generally produce far fewer negative externalities than motor vehicles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

Cool story, bro. But it’s better that hard data guides public policy and not your feelings. And there isn’t a lot of hard data that shows that scooters or cyclists come anywhere near to representing the threat that cars and other motor vehicles pose to the safety of the general public.

Hard data you say? Where is the hard data on the number of bicycles and scooters in active use? On a proportional basis I would not be surprised if bike/scooter accidents were higher than cars etc. Just using that previously cited hard data on accident fault and bicycles are the most dangerous of all proportionately.

Try a bit harder to understand the meaning of “safety of the general public”.

The hard data says that bicycles and scooters are the most dangerous (at fault fatalities per trip).

They injure their riders. Not the general public. This shouldn't be that hard.

Bikes and scooters also generate almost no carbon emissions, take up minimal public space, are very quiet, and generally produce far fewer negative externalities than motor vehicles.

Read the New York Times story. Paris banned scooters because they are so dangerous. One knocked a newborn out of a mother’s arms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can they ride in bike lanes?

Is a scooter a BIKE? No.

Therefore they have no place in BIKE lanes.

Anybody can do anything in bike lanes. You can walk or jog or ride scooters or skateboards or whatever. No one is going to stop you.

[Anonymous]

There would be zero appetite to enforce this or any other law, so what would be the point of a ban?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

Sounds like you’re not cut out for the city, grandma. Go back to Florida.

If you want to ride your bike in the street, move to the suburbs. This is a major city not the quiet cup de sac in Ohio that you grew up on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can they ride in bike lanes?

Is a scooter a BIKE? No.

Therefore they have no place in BIKE lanes.

Lol. I’ll do whatever TF I want in bike lanes, including idle my car. You won’t do sht about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

Cool story, bro. But it’s better that hard data guides public policy and not your feelings. And there isn’t a lot of hard data that shows that scooters or cyclists come anywhere near to representing the threat that cars and other motor vehicles pose to the safety of the general public.

Hard data you say? Where is the hard data on the number of bicycles and scooters in active use? On a proportional basis I would not be surprised if bike/scooter accidents were higher than cars etc. Just using that previously cited hard data on accident fault and bicycles are the most dangerous of all proportionately.

Try a bit harder to understand the meaning of “safety of the general public”.

The hard data says that bicycles and scooters are the most dangerous (at fault fatalities per trip).

They injure their riders. Not the general public. This shouldn't be that hard.

Bikes and scooters also generate almost no carbon emissions, take up minimal public space, are very quiet, and generally produce far fewer negative externalities than motor vehicles.

Read the New York Times story. Paris banned scooters because they are so dangerous. One knocked a newborn out of a mother’s arms.

Hmm no NYT story suggests they banned them because tourists use them instead of residents. Not sure if that's true here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Paris is voting Sunday on whether to ban scooters. People are sick of them — they ride too fast, they go on the sidewalks, they leave their scooters everywhere. Copenhagen, Helsinki have imposed new restrictions. London wants to require people to get licenses. I would love it if DC banned them outright. They are a menace.

While we’re at it, let’s ban cars too. They are a menace that kill tens of thousands of the living population and are making the planet unlivable for everyone that comes after.

I was just in Manhattan for a week and walked everywhere. Not once did I fear for my life from a car, but the scooters and bikes in the bike lanes were a menace. No one obeyed the lights so stepping off the curb into the bike lane to cross the street was terrifying, and not only right after the light changed. My son narrowly missed getting hit very hard by a scooter, and I had two close calls with bikes that would have ended badly because they were going so fast. I would much rather walk amongst cars where the behavior of the drivers is more predictable and most follow the lights. It was the opposite for the bikes and scooters.

Sounds like you’re not cut out for the city, grandma. Go back to Florida.

Weak. Surely you have something better than that? Do you just need more time?