S/o: The shrinking middle class at top schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This study is dividing incomes into quartiles. The upper quartile starts at 98K annual income (2018-2019 school year, not certain if that's the last year the study covers). So this has nothing to do with the donut hole gripes that circulate here.

Except at the very top schools (and the study looked at 200 schools), the financial gap known as the doughnut hole goes down well into financial aid territory. Generally speaking, under FAFSA, a family making $100k is expected to pay $47k toward the cost of attendance. That can represent a big discount off the sticker price and still be too expensive for a family to bear, especially for high-performing students who might get a merit-based full ride from a less selective college. Practically the entire honors dorm at GMU, for example, is in this situation. They could be admitted to the more selective schools included in this study, but even with FA, they can’t rationalize the more expensive choice. And this affects admissions, too, because if you feel you can’t turn down a potential full ride at a school like GMU, you can’t afford to ED anywhere. That’s why the true middle class is disappearing from the 200 selective schools looked at in this study.

If we’re talking families near $100K income I completely agree. They don’t get much aid and have a hard time scraping together any more. However, the most vocal complaints around here often turn out to have incomes 2-3 times that. Yes, tuition at a private is still painfully high, but those families are not disappearing, they’re over represented, and they’re not the focus of this study.

Our family has the 100k income range in the DMV and our EFC was 32k yr. Sounds like it wouldn't be do-able, but honestly we're almost done paying for the first and it was okay. Kid has 17k in loans total but is graduating with a 68k job lined up in a social science field so it seems an affordable loan burden. Still have savings in 529 for the 2nd and should be fine. I've seen a couple other posters close to our range on DCUM and they seem to express the same thing. It's interesting when I see those with 175-300 complaining--I think it's because their income pushed them into a different social sphere with a different set of expectations and references.

We're in the 175 range. Our EFC will be about 40k which is doable. The problem will the the 2 years when our kids overlap. Ironically, we're priced out of UVA/VT/W&M, but the incredibly expensive privates that meet all need and use CSS will be affordable

Yes, our younger kid starts next year, so no overlap. But given our income level, we have to pay for most of it out of what we saved anyway so I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference in our case anyway. W&M total cost of attendance really is under 40k though (it's where my kid goes) and UVA/VT are lower, so not sure why you're priced out if your EFC is 40k? Is it because the private schools treat the overlap differently? We only found one private that DC got into that brought the cost below W&M for us with merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This study is dividing incomes into quartiles. The upper quartile starts at 98K annual income (2018-2019 school year, not certain if that's the last year the study covers). So this has nothing to do with the donut hole gripes that circulate here.

Except at the very top schools (and the study looked at 200 schools), the financial gap known as the doughnut hole goes down well into financial aid territory. Generally speaking, under FAFSA, a family making $100k is expected to pay $47k toward the cost of attendance. That can represent a big discount off the sticker price and still be too expensive for a family to bear, especially for high-performing students who might get a merit-based full ride from a less selective college. Practically the entire honors dorm at GMU, for example, is in this situation. They could be admitted to the more selective schools included in this study, but even with FA, they can’t rationalize the more expensive choice. And this affects admissions, too, because if you feel you can’t turn down a potential full ride at a school like GMU, you can’t afford to ED anywhere. That’s why the true middle class is disappearing from the 200 selective schools looked at in this study.

DP. I don't think that figure is quite accurate. Our income is around 130k and efc around 40k.

Our kid's top college (T20) expanded aid for families in the mid income range (true middle class) over the past 3 years. % of students in mid income went up.

This latest development is real, but it isn’t really captured by the study, which only went through 2016, and where the T20 is swamped, statistically, by the other 180 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This study is dividing incomes into quartiles. The upper quartile starts at 98K annual income (2018-2019 school year, not certain if that's the last year the study covers). So this has nothing to do with the donut hole gripes that circulate here.

Except at the very top schools (and the study looked at 200 schools), the financial gap known as the doughnut hole goes down well into financial aid territory. Generally speaking, under FAFSA, a family making $100k is expected to pay $47k toward the cost of attendance. That can represent a big discount off the sticker price and still be too expensive for a family to bear, especially for high-performing students who might get a merit-based full ride from a less selective college. Practically the entire honors dorm at GMU, for example, is in this situation. They could be admitted to the more selective schools included in this study, but even with FA, they can’t rationalize the more expensive choice. And this affects admissions, too, because if you feel you can’t turn down a potential full ride at a school like GMU, you can’t afford to ED anywhere. That’s why the true middle class is disappearing from the 200 selective schools looked at in this study.

If we’re talking families near $100K income I completely agree. They don’t get much aid and have a hard time scraping together any more. However, the most vocal complaints around here often turn out to have incomes 2-3 times that. Yes, tuition at a private is still painfully high, but those families are not disappearing, they’re over represented, and they’re not the focus of this study.

Our family has the 100k income range in the DMV and our EFC was 32k yr. Sounds like it wouldn't be do-able, but honestly we're almost done paying for the first and it was okay. Kid has 17k in loans total but is graduating with a 68k job lined up in a social science field so it seems an affordable loan burden. Still have savings in 529 for the 2nd and should be fine. I've seen a couple other posters close to our range on DCUM and they seem to express the same thing. It's interesting when I see those with 175-300 complaining--I think it's because their income pushed them into a different social sphere with a different set of expectations and references.

We're in the 175 range. Our EFC will be about 40k which is doable. The problem will the the 2 years when our kids overlap. Ironically, we're priced out of UVA/VT/W&M, but the incredibly expensive privates that meet all need and use CSS will be affordable

Yes, our younger kid starts next year, so no overlap. But given our income level, we have to pay for most of it out of what we saved anyway so I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference in our case anyway. W&M total cost of attendance really is under 40k though (it's where my kid goes) and UVA/VT are lower, so not sure why you're priced out if your EFC is 40k? Is it because the private schools treat the overlap differently? We only found one private that DC got into that brought the cost below W&M for us with merit aid.

40k a year is about what we can afford. At a FAFSA school, we'd be paying full tuition times two for the overlap years. At CSS schools, we'd be paying far less for those two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This study is dividing incomes into quartiles. The upper quartile starts at 98K annual income (2018-2019 school year, not certain if that's the last year the study covers). So this has nothing to do with the donut hole gripes that circulate here.

Except at the very top schools (and the study looked at 200 schools), the financial gap known as the doughnut hole goes down well into financial aid territory. Generally speaking, under FAFSA, a family making $100k is expected to pay $47k toward the cost of attendance. That can represent a big discount off the sticker price and still be too expensive for a family to bear, especially for high-performing students who might get a merit-based full ride from a less selective college. Practically the entire honors dorm at GMU, for example, is in this situation. They could be admitted to the more selective schools included in this study, but even with FA, they can’t rationalize the more expensive choice. And this affects admissions, too, because if you feel you can’t turn down a potential full ride at a school like GMU, you can’t afford to ED anywhere. That’s why the true middle class is disappearing from the 200 selective schools looked at in this study.

If we’re talking families near $100K income I completely agree. They don’t get much aid and have a hard time scraping together any more. However, the most vocal complaints around here often turn out to have incomes 2-3 times that. Yes, tuition at a private is still painfully high, but those families are not disappearing, they’re over represented, and they’re not the focus of this study.

Our family has the 100k income range in the DMV and our EFC was 32k yr. Sounds like it wouldn't be do-able, but honestly we're almost done paying for the first and it was okay. Kid has 17k in loans total but is graduating with a 68k job lined up in a social science field so it seems an affordable loan burden. Still have savings in 529 for the 2nd and should be fine. I've seen a couple other posters close to our range on DCUM and they seem to express the same thing. It's interesting when I see those with 175-300 complaining--I think it's because their income pushed them into a different social sphere with a different set of expectations and references.

We're in the 175 range. Our EFC will be about 40k which is doable. The problem will the the 2 years when our kids overlap. Ironically, we're priced out of UVA/VT/W&M, but the incredibly expensive privates that meet all need and use CSS will be affordable

Yes, our younger kid starts next year, so no overlap. But given our income level, we have to pay for most of it out of what we saved anyway so I'm not sure it would have made much of a difference in our case anyway. W&M total cost of attendance really is under 40k though (it's where my kid goes) and UVA/VT are lower, so not sure why you're priced out if your EFC is 40k? Is it because the private schools treat the overlap differently? We only found one private that DC got into that brought the cost below W&M for us with merit aid.

40k a year is about what we can afford. At a FAFSA school, we'd be paying full tuition times two for the overlap years. At CSS schools, we'd be paying far less for those two years.

So you're primarily funding it from your current income not savings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what I have been saying.

Hard working tax paying middle class should be rewarded not punished for the society and country to be healthy.

Implying that low-income families aren’t hardworking or taxpaying.

I didn't say that, but middle class is surely getting punished.

Real middle class are getting financial aid. You mean wealthy DCUM middle class who live in million dollar homes and choose not to save and yet demand their kids go to the most expensive schools. The rest of us, who are real middle class live within our means, or under our means to save for state school.

If "real middle class" families are getting financial aid and you are "real middle class", wouldn't you get financial aid at private colleges and wouldn't need to scrape together the money for state school? I feel like you're just describing the financial situation of most MC/UMC DCUMers who cannot afford private college tuition and are instead looking at in-state or OOS/private with merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly what I have been saying.

Hard working tax paying middle class should be rewarded not punished for the society and country to be healthy.

Implying that low-income families aren’t hardworking or taxpaying.

I didn't say that, but middle class is surely getting punished.

Real middle class are getting financial aid. You mean wealthy DCUM middle class who live in million dollar homes and choose not to save and yet demand their kids go to the most expensive schools. The rest of us, who are real middle class live within our means, or under our means to save for state school.

If "real middle class" families are getting financial aid and you are "real middle class", wouldn't you get financial aid at private colleges and wouldn't need to scrape together the money for state school? I feel like you're just describing the financial situation of most MC/UMC DCUMers who cannot afford private college tuition and are instead looking at in-state or OOS/private with merit.

A lot of the private colleges are "need aware" in admissions or do not meet full need. Also, student loans up to the maximum are often the first layer of financial aid, followed by work-study before you get grants, this is especially true at many OOS public schools. If your middle income family kids gets into Harvard or Yale, yes they will be funded well without loans, but everyone knows what a crapshoot getting admitted to a school like that is. Because in state schools cost less overall you don't run into these issues. (Not to mention middle class families may not be able to afford the travel costs to further away schools).