Sold a Story and Phonics instruction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

Multiple parents who probably have no idea what is actually happening in school, and who are making up a story that teaching phonics somehow means that kids wiill never read in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

And you really think the kids would have a day that is 90% phonics? Seriously how is that even possible, they have to eat lunch and have specials. You don't have to believe everything you read on the internet!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

I think you don't know what guided reading means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

I think you don't know what guided reading means.

What are you even talking about? Guided reading is leveled reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has got to be one of the stupidest DCPS threads ever and that is saying a lot.

+1

I keep thinking of Don Quixote

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

I think you don't know what guided reading means.

What are you even talking about? Guided reading is leveled reading.

Right, the PP uses it in a way that suggests they think it means all reading. The PP they're responding to doesn't claim guided reading is still present in SoR schools. It's good that guided reading is gone, because it was basically a phony money-making scheme to make it seem like kids were learning when they weren't. That's not evidence that kids aren't reading books in classrooms. Most of those leveled texts were made up nonsense anyway; not actually normal books written for literature's sake. Hard to see why reading decodable books is less "reading" than reading leveled books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

I think you don't know what guided reading means.

What are you even talking about? Guided reading is leveled reading.

Right, the PP uses it in a way that suggests they think it means all reading. The PP they're responding to doesn't claim guided reading is still present in SoR schools. It's good that guided reading is gone, because it was basically a phony money-making scheme to make it seem like kids were learning when they weren't. That's not evidence that kids aren't reading books in classrooms. Most of those leveled texts were made up nonsense anyway; not actually normal books written for literature's sake. Hard to see why reading decodable books is less "reading" than reading leveled books.

Eh. Phonics-focus is also a money making scam - they aren’t really reading books. Good reading instruction is going to include both students grouped by levels reading for comprehension purposes (actual books) with some phonics. Kids needing intense phonics should be pull out/push in. We need less of these consultant-driven mass-produced lesson plans, and more teaching autonomy and real books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

I think you don't know what guided reading means.

What are you even talking about? Guided reading is leveled reading.

Right, the PP uses it in a way that suggests they think it means all reading. The PP they're responding to doesn't claim guided reading is still present in SoR schools. It's good that guided reading is gone, because it was basically a phony money-making scheme to make it seem like kids were learning when they weren't. That's not evidence that kids aren't reading books in classrooms. Most of those leveled texts were made up nonsense anyway; not actually normal books written for literature's sake. Hard to see why reading decodable books is less "reading" than reading leveled books.

Eh. Phonics-focus is also a money making scam - they aren’t really reading books. Good reading instruction is going to include both students grouped by levels reading for comprehension purposes (actual books) with some phonics. Kids needing intense phonics should be pull out/push in. We need less of these consultant-driven mass-produced lesson plans, and more teaching autonomy and real books.

I mean, industries will pop up around any curriculum. That’s hardly a reflection on the actual evidence about what kids need to learn how to read.

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Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

It does though... my first grader never mentions a book he reads or has been read to in school. All i see are phonics worksheets and that he worked on a phonics skill he learned back at the beginning of kindergarten. It was great that phonics taught him to read, but he never actually reads now...

He can read at home! That’s where reading books for pleasure takes place. Our DCPS also had plenty of reading in book groups etc.

Of course kids can and should read at home...but that is also where kids have traditionally done most of the their reading...at school. My grandparents were immigrants who did not speak English at home, both of their children became English professors. That didn't happen because of their home life - where minority languages were thankfully preserved - that happened because of reading books at school (and in the library). If your answer is that elementary kids should do their reading of whole books at home because they are doing phonics worksheets at school - that actually is pretty sad.

Oh ffs stop. Kids read books in DCPS. Teaching phonic does not mean they don’t read at school.

You have multiple parents saying they are not reading books, that there is no guided reading, you have had parents describe a day which is 90% phonics...you have a different opinion, but why the reactionary censorship?

I think you don't know what guided reading means.

What are you even talking about? Guided reading is leveled reading.

Right, the PP uses it in a way that suggests they think it means all reading. The PP they're responding to doesn't claim guided reading is still present in SoR schools. It's good that guided reading is gone, because it was basically a phony money-making scheme to make it seem like kids were learning when they weren't. That's not evidence that kids aren't reading books in classrooms. Most of those leveled texts were made up nonsense anyway; not actually normal books written for literature's sake. Hard to see why reading decodable books is less "reading" than reading leveled books.

Eh. Phonics-focus is also a money making scam - they aren’t really reading books. Good reading instruction is going to include both students grouped by levels reading for comprehension purposes (actual books) with some phonics. Kids needing intense phonics should be pull out/push in. We need less of these consultant-driven mass-produced lesson plans, and more teaching autonomy and real books.

What you're describing above *is* what is happening at SoR schools. My Ker at a DCPS w/ Fundations & a SoR focus brought home a book report assignment for Spring Break (as did the other 5 kids in his reading group). Those in lower levels of reading groups brought home phonics instruction-type packets. My kid gets his whole class 20 minute Fundations lesson every morning, but the balance of the instruction changes as kids learn to read well & independently. My kid doesn't mind the phonics lessons at all (even though, truthfully, he memorized his way to reading in PK3 and his TRC level is high for his DIBELS score) and they're good for him as he tackles longer/more complex words. A solid foundation in phonics is particularly good as kids transition to 2nd/3rd and start reading to learn and tackling social studies & science texts where they will encounter tons of unfamiliar words.

[Anonymous]

You will also appreciate phonics when your kids can spell, even if they don't need some of the explicit phonics instructions to be able to read. Moreover, it is better for your kids to be bored for 20 minutes during the school day so that their peers can get the reading instruction they need than be in class in 2-3 years with kids who can't read and slow the whole class down. Phonics instruction in K-3 is an investment in functional general education classes beyond those years.

[Anonymous]

Phonics instruction is really only k-1. Not sure why people think young kids should spend a lot of time “reading” in kindergarten. There are tons of read alouds and opportunities to build other literacy skills. No one is drilling phonics in 4th grade. I do appreciate the focus on word awareness/ morphology for more proficient readers. My child loves exploring language and this has been a plus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Phonics instruction is really only k-1. Not sure why people think young kids should spend a lot of time “reading” in kindergarten. There are tons of read alouds and opportunities to build other literacy skills. No one is drilling phonics in 4th grade. I do appreciate the focus on word awareness/ morphology for more proficient readers. My child loves exploring language and this has been a plus.

To be fair, it’s through 2nd, at least at our DCPS, and they’re considering extending Fundations to 3rd. But it has served my kids well even though they didn’t fall into the camp of kids who “needed” it. 2nd grader’s Lexile level is in the low 900s per RI (so we’ll above where you’d think of phonics as targeting) and she doesn’t complain about her 20 minutes of fundations/day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our charter unfortunately has bought into the SOR cult of phonics drilling, like Fundations. It's pretty sad and joyless - but the overall school culture is good - so we basically try and ignore. We told the teacher at the beginning of the year that we would not be supporting homework assignments at home (DD is in K and goes to aftercare where they do homework).

Hope this parent didn't just continue to ignore the situation!

This post highlights TWO key mistakes that can keep kids from thriving. First -- if the parent is correct, it sounds like the charter is going overboard with SOR (Science of Reading) and phonics. Kids certainly need to know how to sound out words, but teaching phonics in isolation won't achieve the goal. One would have thought we would have that figured out by now.

Second, what kind of parent would tell "the teacher at the beginning of the year that we would not be supporting homework assignments at home"? This attitude will cause a child to suffer academically, socially, emotionally, etc. in the long-term. Children should arrive in Kindergarten already knowing the alphabet and all of the sounds at MINIMUM. Ideally, they can read before they enter the classroom...and that means a parent would have had to invest substantial time reading to and teaching them from the time they were born...doing what a good parent should do...what a good parent would want to do. Make the time.

Worth reading: https://raisingamericans.substack.com/p/the-american-reading-crisis-and-how
The American Reading Crisis and How to Ensure the Phonics Renaissance Succeeds: Why the laudable return to phonics is not enough

SoldaStory podcast is really interesting too...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our charter unfortunately has bought into the SOR cult of phonics drilling, like Fundations. It's pretty sad and joyless - but the overall school culture is good - so we basically try and ignore. We told the teacher at the beginning of the year that we would not be supporting homework assignments at home (DD is in K and goes to aftercare where they do homework).

Hope this parent didn't just continue to ignore the situation!

This post highlights TWO key mistakes that can keep kids from thriving. First -- if the parent is correct, it sounds like the charter is going overboard with SOR (Science of Reading) and phonics. Kids certainly need to know how to sound out words, but teaching phonics in isolation won't achieve the goal. One would have thought we would have that figured out by now.

Second, what kind of parent would tell "the teacher at the beginning of the year that we would not be supporting homework assignments at home"? This attitude will cause a child to suffer academically, socially, emotionally, etc. in the long-term. Children should arrive in Kindergarten already knowing the alphabet and all of the sounds at MINIMUM. Ideally, they can read before they enter the classroom...and that means a parent would have had to invest substantial time reading to and teaching them from the time they were born...doing what a good parent should do...what a good parent would want to do. Make the time.

Worth reading: https://raisingamericans.substack.com/p/the-american-reading-crisis-and-how
The American Reading Crisis and How to Ensure the Phonics Renaissance Succeeds: Why the laudable return to phonics is not enough

SoldaStory podcast is really interesting too...

We also told teacher we would not do homework with K kid and we have a minority language only household and do not believe in homework in K. Kid seems to be doing in aftercare with other kids. Kid arrived in K reading short words in three languages, so we aren’t too worried.