Sold a Story and Phonics instruction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

This is so amazingly wrong. The number 1 thing that turns off kids to reading is not being able to read. LC leaves up to 40% of kids totally behind. Also, nothing about phonics instruction suggests kids don’t learn to write too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

On the contrary, when kids are given no direct phonics instruction and expected to just pick it up intuitively, for some of them it works but for some of them it doesn't. Then they end up way behind, and they don't love reading at all because they aren't getting the support they need. My DD did wonderfully with Fundations and loves reading to this day, and her comprehension and writing is outstanding. And it all rests on a foundation of early, high-quality phonics instruction. "Whole language" is a buzzword. "R-blend" is a combination of sounds. I'm really perplexed that anyone would think learning phonics for 30 minutes is such a bad thing. They have the whole rest of the day to do woo-woo Lucy Calkins things.

+100. My kid flat-out refused the whole language method, just would not guess at all, was given pull-out phonics, memorized rules of English orthography I certainly never knew, and is now (in middle school) happily reading Melville, Shakespeare, and Dumas. If that’s not a love of reading I’d like to know what it is.

Older kid picked up reading easily, never had phonics pull outs—but also skips the middles of words? Very bad habit. Stuck on young adult novels, does not seem to be moving on to the classics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

Whut? Yes, I did have plenty of phonics as a child, and I was born in 1980. I read quite well and love reading despite learning phonics. I also learned "morphographs"-- will that upset you too?

And nobody is doing phonics drilling "all day". It's about 30 minutes. So try to calm yourself. They have the whole rest of the day to do other types of reading instruction and science.

[Anonymous]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/us/reading-teaching-curriculum-phonics.html#:~:text=Professor%20Calkins%20expanded%20into%20reading,set%20aside%20time%20for%20it.

"Professor Calkins expanded into reading instruction, using similar principles. A goal was to help children to build a joyful identity as a reader. Even then, she said she never doubted the importance of phonics. In sample classroom schedules, she told schools to set aside time for it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

I love phonics for my own kids'and that was how they learned to read at home from me. It was how I was taught to read by my parents as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

No. Completely wrong and ignorant. I learned with phonics in 1983 and had a perfect English sat score. Yhe modern form
has been around since the seventies. In fact it’s beyond copyright which is why the textbook companies ignore it. You have no idea what you are talking about and are doubling down for no reason.

I said minimum phonics, not no phonics. "Sound it out and think of a word that makes sense" is phonics. We were all taught to do that while reading whole books. You are clearly not a lawyer (especially a copyright one). One phonics book might be in the public domain, and phonics is ONE technique of literacy -but that is a vastly different paradigm than force-feeding phonics drills starting at pre-K and delaying books, and discussion about reading until second grade to focus on the "science of reading" which is ONE theory of how people learn to read. I get that anger and name calling is your clutch - but it is pretty unnecessary - you must have other tools to sublimate your rage at your disposal? The "e" at the end of rage is silent, FYI. But you knew that, since you got a perfect score on the "English SAT."

I'm really perplexed why you would think direct phonics instruction means never reading a whole book or discussing it. Phonics is about 30 minutes. They can read and discuss books at other times of day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our charter unfortunately has bought into the SOR cult of phonics drilling, like Fundations. It's pretty sad and joyless - but the overall school culture is good - so we basically try and ignore. We told the teacher at the beginning of the year that we would not be supporting homework assignments at home (DD is in K and goes to aftercare where they do homework).

The “cult” of phonics? It actually teaches kid to read. And great way to be totally disrespectful to the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

Please cite your research on this. The goal is to teach kids to read. Every DCPS has a librarian - they can check out books and learn the love of reading there. Plus my DCPS kid did a ton of book groups etc. There is no reason kids can’t do phonics and learn a love of reading. PS - they can’t love reading if they can’t read!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

PLEASE jusy stop. This is NOT political and it is frankly evil for you to try to make it that way. Our DCPS has been doing phonics for years, well before there was this much media attention to it. But sure, please go tell my kid’s beloved, amazing K teacher with 4 decades of experience that she’s a right-wing stooge. That would be a very amusing conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

PLEASE jusy stop. This is NOT political and it is frankly evil for you to try to make it that way. Our DCPS has been doing phonics for years, well before there was this much media attention to it. But sure, please go tell my kid’s beloved, amazing K teacher with 4 decades of experience that she’s a right-wing stooge. That would be a very amusing conversation.

Not sure why you are injecting so much of your copious inner bile into a pedagogical discussion? Educational methods are 1) frequently debated; frequently political; 3) often intersecting with racism/classism, etc. Intelligent minds can disagree. As public school parents of elementary students we are all looking at homework, touring schools, going to back to school “literacy nights,” etc. There is a clear shift in how we are teaching reading from guided reading to heavily phonics based curriculum. Much of this is driven by test prep. It does seem sad. It will work for some kids, but it’s not a differentiated instruction model, so it does suppress growth for other students. If you are comfortable with that - fine. Others are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very depressing to see the lifeblood being sucked out of reading in favor of PARCC scores and "science." The pendulum will surely tilt back in favor of whole language, but it sounds like it will too late for most of our kids. Comprehension is critical. Writing skills are critical. Developing a love of reading - critical. Learning buzzwords like "R Blends" are not.

People like you are the cause of a lot of grief.

Of course kids should read whole books and talk about what things mean, and they need to understand enough about the history of the English language to know that we have several different spelling systems smooshed together.

But most kids also need help with learning how to sound out simple words. Whole language fanatics who ignore the need for phonics are a menace.

If you or your kids learned reading without any phonics, wonderful, but many other kids obviously need some phonics.

News flash: children all over the world - and in this country learned how to read without phonics drilling all day -with these anachronistic thingys called books. Indeed, if you were born before the 1990s, you managed to learn how to read by decoding words, and reading/writing stories, with minimum phonics per day. Some kids do need phonic drills because of learning differences, but most kids do not. And if reading is essentially flatlined in favor of "science" and drills, kids who are capable of reading without phonics are bored and their language learning is stunted. It's not surprising that people on the right (prone to saying things like "people like you") love phonics for certain students - not their own, of course, for students they deem as less capable.

PLEASE jusy stop. This is NOT political and it is frankly evil for you to try to make it that way. Our DCPS has been doing phonics for years, well before there was this much media attention to it. But sure, please go tell my kid’s beloved, amazing K teacher with 4 decades of experience that she’s a right-wing stooge. That would be a very amusing conversation.

Not sure why you are injecting so much of your copious inner bile into a pedagogical discussion? Educational methods are 1) frequently debated; frequently political; 3) often intersecting with racism/classism, etc. Intelligent minds can disagree. As public school parents of elementary students we are all looking at homework, touring schools, going to back to school “literacy nights,” etc. There is a clear shift in how we are teaching reading from guided reading to heavily phonics based curriculum. Much of this is driven by test prep. It does seem sad. It will work for some kids, but it’s not a differentiated instruction model, so it does suppress growth for other students. If you are comfortable with that - fine. Others are not.

WTH? Of course it can be differentiated. Why on earth would it not be? This discussion is so strange, the anti-phonics people are just saying such bizarre things.

https://www.wilsonlanguage.com/programs/fundations/curriculum/

[Anonymous]

Seriously, it can be differentiated. That's how my DD got Fundations in PK3, earlier than kids are supposed to, but she was an October birthday and was hungry for it so the teacher had her in a little reading group on her own. Some may say it wasn't age appropriate, but I think if the kid is enjoying it, it's totally fine. In PK3 (same school) she finished Fundations through K. We then switched to a so-called "HRCS" and she was way, way ahead of the other kids in reading and 5 years later she is doing great on all aspects of reading and language arts. I don't know why people stress themselves out so much. As long as it's properly differentiated, phonics will not harm your child! If you feel the differentiation is lacking or the other elements of the curriculum are not strong, by all means bring that up with your principal. But that's not a phonics problem.