Retire to Western NY or VT/NH Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We’re planning to retire to WNY, likely one of the villages north of Niagara Falls. Yes, taxes are high, but it’s also reasonably insulated from the worst effects of climate change, which matter to us. DH is from there, hence preferring that over VT/NH.

You’re going to live somewhere that has sh!tty weather all the time right now in order to avoid the highly speculative effects of climate change in the indeterminate future? 🙄🙄🙄😂😂😂

DH and I love cold weather; we don’t consider it “shitty.” Winters are long but the other seasons are gorgeous. I’ll take a Buffalo winter over a DC summer any day.

Also, I don’t take advice from science-deniers, so there’s that.

You like it now, will you like it as much when you're 85 and can't drive and use a walker and are afraid one fall on the ice may be the end of you?

when I am 85 and can’t drive and need a walker I will move into a Home near my children wherever they may be but I am not going to live in the south for 25 years dying of the heat just in case that happens when I am 85.

I’m the PP who was being replied to so I didn’t write the above, but it’s exactly how I feel, too.

My parents live there now, and are in denial about what a problem it is. They constantly want me to help them with weather maintenance issues for their house, and they basically can't travel at all in the winter because they won't drive in snow. They're only mid-70s but this stuff catches up with you. Skiing isn't fun for them anymore. I really resent that they moved someplace inconvenient that would obviously pose a lot of challenges, and now act like it's some unforseen misfortune.

These are your issues, PP. Stop projecting them onto others.

Ok. Enjoy dealing with the snow without help.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/protect-your-heart-when-shoveling-snow-201101151153

But why are you assuming PP won’t have help? My in laws have had the same company for years shovel/plow their driveway and sidewalk. There are tons of other companies should something happen to this one. Some of us love New England and financially plan and prepare for the things we will need in our retirement years. Just like we would plan if we wanted to live somewhere else.

Because it's not just the shoveling. It's feeling like you can't even walk to your own mailbox without risk. Can't drive anywhere because you might not be able to drive back. When you get where you're going, will you be able to get from the car to the place safely? Basically unless you can pay to hire a chaperone every time you need to go somewhere, it's a long boring difficult winter. You can say "that's your issue" but I'm telling you, it's the issue of my parents, all their friends and relatives there, and thus also their adult children. These places should be thought of as for the first decade of retirement only, then you need to make another plan.

The population of northern New England is aging (not just because of arriving retirees) and it can be very hard to find a facility to move into. I'm trying to find one right now and the options are few, expensive, and not that great.

FFS - you can hire someone to salt your walk, too. Why wouldn’t an older person be able to walk to their mailbox without risk? As for driving - pay attention to the weather and that’s usually not an issue. What happened in Buffalo over Christmas was a tragedy, but many of the deaths could have been avoided if people paid attention to the forecast and stayed off the roads.

I get that you’re bitter AF, but enough, already.

So you won't be going anywhere until the salt and shovel people come. Could be a while. Are you going to hire someone to salt your destination as well?

Look, I'll stop belaboring it, but you have to really think this stuff through. In the winter, every single time you leave your house it's a project and you have to work with your service provider who, amazingly, has many other walks to shovel and roads to plow. Just saying "I'll hire someone" is a way of avoiding thinking about whether you really will be able to get the level or service you want, and whether you truly want to live your life around the weather.

At the rate we are going, winter wont be much of a problem in VT/NH. I was up there last week and there was some snow on the ground but roads/sidewalks were totally clear.

I don't think people are saying they are living in rural areas. My second home is in a small town and even with the current labor shortage it's not hard to find plow/snow clearing people. It's all the landscapers who need work in the winter. If you are concerned about power outages get a generator or a Tesla Powerwall (seriously - I was in a house up there that had one). I've noticed more and more solar is popping up in VT in my recent visits.

Yes people need to be realistic about winter, but most of the people considering northern NE understand that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We were just in VT and it was lovely and the food was great. Lots to do and people live their whole lives outside. The people were kind of a turn off though. Not real friendly or helpful. WNY has Buffalo, "The City of Good Neighbors," and a couple of Great Lakes and the Finger Lakes, wineries, breweries, the largest Farm Market east of the Mississippi and people who rival Midwesterners in the friendly openness. The food is good, but not always super gourmet -- awesome fish fries, pancake breakfasts, old school Italian, beef on weck, etc.

That's a bummer to hear. I want to avoid living anywhere too insular. We had that when we lived in the Midwest and it wasn't fun.

OP

New England is VERY insular. Most people stay in their hometowns and don’t socialize with people outside of family/friend groups. It’s kind of depressing to be honest. I would move to a college town or a more affluent, tourist-rich coastal area.

[Anonymous]

Are you white? If not, do not live in Vermont/NH. It is incredibly white.

I’d live in western MA (e.g., anywhere from Lenox to Amherst). But keep in mind, these areas are kind of provincial. There’s just not the same level of moving around and diversity you get either in larger towns or in cities. I’ve lived in both upstate NY and western MA for years and just found it a bit isolating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New Hampshire is by far the most tax friendly of the three for retirees.

No state income tax
No sales tax
No tax on social security
Withdrawals from retirement accounts are not taxed
Public and private pension income are not taxed

Wow! This is good to know. Thank you.

OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you do NH/VT I'd stick to Burlington, Hanover, or the southern edge of the states. You will need good health care and northern VT/NY are really lacking.

What would be your plan for when you're too old to deal with snow? I grew up in VT and my parents still live there, they always loved the lifestyle, but as they grow older it's harder and harder for them. Retiring to VT is not necessarily going to be a permanent location unless your adult children live there too. Because the winter is HARD. And if you lose the ability to drive a car (like really drive a 4 wheel drive in the snow), you basically have to move. The whole life is set up around cars.

This is a serious consideration. I think I’ll move closer to one of my kids once they are settled. The snow is definitely something to think about.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Western NY is gorgeous. What cities would be nice to live in? Ithaca, Rochester? NH and VT are nearby states we’d consider.

We’d love a lower HCOL and not to be more than 70 miles from water. We like concerts, art, movies, friends, the outdoors.

Any suggestions for towns or cities in these places?

I'm stuck on Western NY is gorgeous OP. Being genuine, why do you think this? I grew up there. It has its moments to be sure. Lovely summers. But it is most definitely not gorgeous a lot of the year. It's not just the cold, it's very grey (not a lot of sunshine). Buffalo has an insane amount of cloudy days per year. Google this.

The cities are also really struggling and there is a lot of poverty in the rural areas. There are some nice suburbs.

Same poster again. Ithaca is not Western NY. That would be considered Central NY. I also lived in Ithaca for a while. Not dissimilar issues to above. Has the benefits of what a college town brings, of course.

Yeah, I was being lazy with my terminology.

OP

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We were just in VT and it was lovely and the food was great. Lots to do and people live their whole lives outside. The people were kind of a turn off though. Not real friendly or helpful. WNY has Buffalo, "The City of Good Neighbors," and a couple of Great Lakes and the Finger Lakes, wineries, breweries, the largest Farm Market east of the Mississippi and people who rival Midwesterners in the friendly openness. The food is good, but not always super gourmet -- awesome fish fries, pancake breakfasts, old school Italian, beef on weck, etc.

That's a bummer to hear. I want to avoid living anywhere too insular. We had that when we lived in the Midwest and it wasn't fun.

OP

New England is VERY insular. Most people stay in their hometowns and don’t socialize with people outside of family/friend groups. It’s kind of depressing to be honest. I would move to a college town or a more affluent, tourist-rich coastal area.

What is the social scene in the Maine coastal areas? (Not OP)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We’re planning to retire to WNY, likely one of the villages north of Niagara Falls. Yes, taxes are high, but it’s also reasonably insulated from the worst effects of climate change, which matter to us. DH is from there, hence preferring that over VT/NH.

You’re going to live somewhere that has sh!tty weather all the time right now in order to avoid the highly speculative effects of climate change in the indeterminate future? 🙄🙄🙄😂😂😂

DH and I love cold weather; we don’t consider it “shitty.” Winters are long but the other seasons are gorgeous. I’ll take a Buffalo winter over a DC summer any day.

Also, I don’t take advice from science-deniers, so there’s that.

You like it now, will you like it as much when you're 85 and can't drive and use a walker and are afraid one fall on the ice may be the end of you?

when I am 85 and can’t drive and need a walker I will move into a Home near my children wherever they may be but I am not going to live in the south for 25 years dying of the heat just in case that happens when I am 85.

I’m the PP who was being replied to so I didn’t write the above, but it’s exactly how I feel, too.

My parents live there now, and are in denial about what a problem it is. They constantly want me to help them with weather maintenance issues for their house, and they basically can't travel at all in the winter because they won't drive in snow. They're only mid-70s but this stuff catches up with you. Skiing isn't fun for them anymore. I really resent that they moved someplace inconvenient that would obviously pose a lot of challenges, and now act like it's some unforseen misfortune.

These are your issues, PP. Stop projecting them onto others.

Ok. Enjoy dealing with the snow without help.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/protect-your-heart-when-shoveling-snow-201101151153

But why are you assuming PP won’t have help? My in laws have had the same company for years shovel/plow their driveway and sidewalk. There are tons of other companies should something happen to this one. Some of us love New England and financially plan and prepare for the things we will need in our retirement years. Just like we would plan if we wanted to live somewhere else.

Because it's not just the shoveling. It's feeling like you can't even walk to your own mailbox without risk. Can't drive anywhere because you might not be able to drive back. When you get where you're going, will you be able to get from the car to the place safely? Basically unless you can pay to hire a chaperone every time you need to go somewhere, it's a long boring difficult winter. You can say "that's your issue" but I'm telling you, it's the issue of my parents, all their friends and relatives there, and thus also their adult children. These places should be thought of as for the first decade of retirement only, then you need to make another plan.

The population of northern New England is aging (not just because of arriving retirees) and it can be very hard to find a facility to move into. I'm trying to find one right now and the options are few, expensive, and not that great.

FFS - you can hire someone to salt your walk, too. Why wouldn’t an older person be able to walk to their mailbox without risk? As for driving - pay attention to the weather and that’s usually not an issue. What happened in Buffalo over Christmas was a tragedy, but many of the deaths could have been avoided if people paid attention to the forecast and stayed off the roads.

I get that you’re bitter AF, but enough, already.

So you won't be going anywhere until the salt and shovel people come. Could be a while. Are you going to hire someone to salt your destination as well?

Look, I'll stop belaboring it, but you have to really think this stuff through. In the winter, every single time you leave your house it's a project and you have to work with your service provider who, amazingly, has many other walks to shovel and roads to plow. Just saying "I'll hire someone" is a way of avoiding thinking about whether you really will be able to get the level or service you want, and whether you truly want to live your life around the weather.

Are you always this patronizing?

I lived in Chicago for seven years. I know snow. I know ice. I know terrible weather. I *also* know, as 16:56 and 17:00 pointed out, that in areas with lousy winter weather, like Buffalo, like Chicago, they have the infrastructure to deal with it. It’s not like here, where people freak out and things shut down in winter weather, in part because we don’t have the resources to make it safe for people to be out and about.

As for living your life around the weather, I’ll take this option to Florida, which the elderly seem to love, with all its heat and humidity and hurricanes. No, thank you.

But why are you assuming they would live in a city? This stuff is a lot harder if you're rural or outside the center of your town, because you have much more responsibility to maintain and pay for for your own infrastructure and when the power goes out it can be out for days. Yes, Buffalo and Chicago have infrastructure, but huge portions of VT, NH, and NY state don't have anywhere near that level. People deal with, yes, but often with the help of younger family members. If you're going to live there without family, go in with your eyes open.

Who is “they”? I originally posted about *my* retirement plans. What is it with people being so patronizing and assuming those of us interested in retiring in colder climates haven’t thought through these issues. Even for DCUM, it’s a bizarre amount of assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re planning to retire to WNY, likely one of the villages north of Niagara Falls. Yes, taxes are high, but it’s also reasonably insulated from the worst effects of climate change, which matter to us. DH is from there, hence preferring that over VT/NH.

You’re going to live somewhere that has sh!tty weather all the time right now in order to avoid the highly speculative effects of climate change in the indeterminate future? 🙄🙄🙄😂😂😂

DH and I love cold weather; we don’t consider it “shitty.” Winters are long but the other seasons are gorgeous. I’ll take a Buffalo winter over a DC summer any day.

Also, I don’t take advice from science-deniers, so there’s that.

You like it now, will you like it as much when you're 85 and can't drive and use a walker and are afraid one fall on the ice may be the end of you?

when I am 85 and can’t drive and need a walker I will move into a Home near my children wherever they may be but I am not going to live in the south for 25 years dying of the heat just in case that happens when I am 85.

I’m the PP who was being replied to so I didn’t write the above, but it’s exactly how I feel, too.

My parents live there now, and are in denial about what a problem it is. They constantly want me to help them with weather maintenance issues for their house, and they basically can't travel at all in the winter because they won't drive in snow. They're only mid-70s but this stuff catches up with you. Skiing isn't fun for them anymore. I really resent that they moved someplace inconvenient that would obviously pose a lot of challenges, and now act like it's some unforseen misfortune.

These are your issues, PP. Stop projecting them onto others.

Ok. Enjoy dealing with the snow without help.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/protect-your-heart-when-shoveling-snow-201101151153

You know you can hire people for this, right? My parents (76 and 80) live in rural Iowa, which is no stranger to snow, and they get the pros in to plow out their driveway and shovel the walks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are looking at Hanover, NH or Woodstock, VT. I went to Dartmouth and we’ve spent some time in the area since then. But it would be only for the fall/winter and probably only for a few years. I think once we are mid 70s we will want to be in a warmer place.

I'm curious, why would you spend the colder months in a colder place? Where would you spend the spring and summer?

Because we like winter and skiing (hence the reason we probably would give it up in mid 70's), and we already have a beach house where we will spend spring/summer.

I'm always amazed when I ski midweek how many retirees I run into who ski 60-100 days a season. Obviously not full days, but they are getting out there multiple days a week. That's what I want for at least a few years.

I love your commitment to healthy, active, outdoor living! My only comment on this is that it's not clear skiing will continue to be as available as it has been, due to lack of snow. Have you been reading about all the ski resorts in Switzerland? There's hardly any snow on the ground. And they expect this to be a trend, not just in Europe, but elsewhere. It's very dismaying! Just something to think about if you're planning a retirement around frequent skiing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We were just in VT and it was lovely and the food was great. Lots to do and people live their whole lives outside. The people were kind of a turn off though. Not real friendly or helpful. WNY has Buffalo, "The City of Good Neighbors," and a couple of Great Lakes and the Finger Lakes, wineries, breweries, the largest Farm Market east of the Mississippi and people who rival Midwesterners in the friendly openness. The food is good, but not always super gourmet -- awesome fish fries, pancake breakfasts, old school Italian, beef on weck, etc.

That's a bummer to hear. I want to avoid living anywhere too insular. We had that when we lived in the Midwest and it wasn't fun.

OP

New England is VERY insular. Most people stay in their hometowns and don’t socialize with people outside of family/friend groups. It’s kind of depressing to be honest. I would move to a college town or a more affluent, tourist-rich coastal area.

What is the social scene in the Maine coastal areas? (Not OP)

In the winter? Dead.

In the summer and fall, many towns are full of snowbirds and people who did not grow up in Maine.

[Anonymous]

Be sure to consider your travel needs. The Burlington airport is wee and adorable, it's like a Polly Pocket of an airport. There aren't a lot of flights. So if your plans include a lot of travel, or people traveling to you, really think about that. There's really no other airport-- the Manchester NH one isn't great either. If you're closer to Boston that's much better. Same goes for NY state.

It's so important not to delude yourself about your adult children's willingness to travel to you. It's nice that you have a yard, skiing, live in what you think is a fun destination or whatever. But flights to Vermont tend to be really expensive and there aren't a lot of other options. I'm the PP who grew up in VT and parents still live there, and I make the effort because it's my hometown. But if my parents randomly moved there and expected me to take all those expensive flights, it would really really annoy me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you white? If not, do not live in Vermont/NH. It is incredibly white.

I’d live in western MA (e.g., anywhere from Lenox to Amherst). But keep in mind, these areas are kind of provincial. There’s just not the same level of moving around and diversity you get either in larger towns or in cities. I’ve lived in both upstate NY and western MA for years and just found it a bit isolating.

lol you think VT/NH are hotbeds of kkk racism? 🙄🙄🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you white? If not, do not live in Vermont/NH. It is incredibly white.

I’d live in western MA (e.g., anywhere from Lenox to Amherst). But keep in mind, these areas are kind of provincial. There’s just not the same level of moving around and diversity you get either in larger towns or in cities. I’ve lived in both upstate NY and western MA for years and just found it a bit isolating.

lol you think VT/NH are hotbeds of kkk racism? 🙄🙄🙄

They're not as bad as some places, but yes, people can be quite racist there. There's kind of two different societies living in the area at the same time-- wealthy and well-educated and liberal, and then blue collar and more conservative.

Also don't forget about the gun nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you white? If not, do not live in Vermont/NH. It is incredibly white.

I’d live in western MA (e.g., anywhere from Lenox to Amherst). But keep in mind, these areas are kind of provincial. There’s just not the same level of moving around and diversity you get either in larger towns or in cities. I’ve lived in both upstate NY and western MA for years and just found it a bit isolating.

lol you think VT/NH are hotbeds of kkk racism? 🙄🙄🙄

They're not as bad as some places, but yes, people can be quite racist there. There's kind of two different societies living in the area at the same time-- wealthy and well-educated and liberal, and then blue collar and more conservative.

Also don't forget about the gun nuts.

And the meth, and the heroin! These areas have really serious drug problems, no way around that.