Data on where kids go to school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would like to know how many DCPS middle schoolers don’t continue on to a DCPS (or DCPCS) HS - whether their IB or an application school (Banneker, SWW, DESA, etc.). But you can’t ask this Q of this data set. It would be too difficult and expensive to get this data and of course, it wouldn’t be in CO’s best interests to find out so we will probably never know.

Also private schools don’t report this. They’re private, and have no requirement or need to report this info. At best you could merge with census type info on full population of students.

You can get this data by zip code here: https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/20007/

Enter zip code and scroll down. This one shows that 67% of kids aged 3-17 in zip code 20007 (Georgetown/Glover Park) attend private school.

For AU Park 20016: 49.4% attend private school.

This is years out of date for our gentrifying neighborhood. I’d take all of this data with an enormous grain of salt.

The other data are up to date and still a disaster for my neighborhood. It will be even worst if we include private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would like to know how many DCPS middle schoolers don’t continue on to a DCPS (or DCPCS) HS - whether their IB or an application school (Banneker, SWW, DESA, etc.). But you can’t ask this Q of this data set. It would be too difficult and expensive to get this data and of course, it wouldn’t be in CO’s best interests to find out so we will probably never know.

Also private schools don’t report this. They’re private, and have no requirement or need to report this info. At best you could merge with census type info on full population of students.

You can get this data by zip code here: https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/20007/

Enter zip code and scroll down. This one shows that 67% of kids aged 3-17 in zip code 20007 (Georgetown/Glover Park) attend private school.

For AU Park 20016: 49.4% attend private school.

This is years out of date for our gentrifying neighborhood. I’d take all of this data with an enormous grain of salt.

What makes you think it is out of date? It's based on Census data that is barely 3 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would like to know how many DCPS middle schoolers don’t continue on to a DCPS (or DCPCS) HS - whether their IB or an application school (Banneker, SWW, DESA, etc.). But you can’t ask this Q of this data set. It would be too difficult and expensive to get this data and of course, it wouldn’t be in CO’s best interests to find out so we will probably never know.

Also private schools don’t report this. They’re private, and have no requirement or need to report this info. At best you could merge with census type info on full population of students.

You can get this data by zip code here: https://www.unitedstateszipcodes.org/20007/

Enter zip code and scroll down. This one shows that 67% of kids aged 3-17 in zip code 20007 (Georgetown/Glover Park) attend private school.

For AU Park 20016: 49.4% attend private school.

This is years out of date for our gentrifying neighborhood. I’d take all of this data with an enormous grain of salt.

LOL. Universal truth of CH living; every person who moves in thinks they discovered the neighborhood and "it is changing so fast!"

[Anonymous]

The numbers seem correct for my neighborhood. I can only think of a handful of folks who’ve gone private. I haven’t looked at every zip code but I would guess going private isn’t very common outside of neighborhoods WotP, way North Ward 4, and Capitol Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The numbers seem correct for my neighborhood. I can only think of a handful of folks who’ve gone private. I haven’t looked at every zip code but I would guess going private isn’t very common outside of neighborhoods WotP, way North Ward 4, and Capitol Hill.

It’s not that common in Capitol Hill for elementary school. Only two schools aren’t terrible commutes and one is very Catholic. Middle school & HS are another story entirely; lots of parents put their kids on public transport pretty early on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

I think Tubman is the assigned non-dual-language alternative to Bancroft, so that might explain that particular dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

I think Tubman is the assigned non-dual-language alternative to Bancroft, so that might explain that particular dynamic.

Makes sense. I wonder what happens to the budget for the others -- does DCPS do some sort of revenue share between its campuses? When I've heard Councilmembers say there are too many schools and too many facilities, I assumed that they were just talking about charters. But looking at this data, makes me nervous that they are aiming to curtail both charters and out of boundary seats to force enrollment in "by-right" neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

I think Tubman is the assigned non-dual-language alternative to Bancroft, so that might explain that particular dynamic.

Makes sense. I wonder what happens to the budget for the others -- does DCPS do some sort of revenue share between its campuses? When I've heard Councilmembers say there are too many schools and too many facilities, I assumed that they were just talking about charters. But looking at this data, makes me nervous that they are aiming to curtail both charters and out of boundary seats to force enrollment in "by-right" neighborhood schools.

The funding comes by the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula. It's not a transfer of revenue from the IB school to the attended school, it all comes straight from the main pot of money.

DCPS has closed so many of its schools that it really can't close or consolidate much more without giving people longer commutes than is desirable, and given the enrollment increases over the past decade it's unlikely they will want to close any more-- DCPS has to plan for the long term as the school of right for all residents, they can't just take as many as they want and ignore the rest, so they sometimes maintain capacity for future use. They are able to adjust boundaries and feeders, as well as add physical capacity through renovation, and they are doing both of those things now and in the near future.

The Deputy Mayor for Education did a memo in 2019 that you might find interesting. It's about the capacity of the whole system
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/School%20system%20capacity%20assessment%20new%20public%20charter%20applications%20FINAL%20051519.pdf

There is also this similar analysis from 2020. Lots of discussion of "unintentionally small" schools-- those that are attracting enough students to continue to exist, but not enough to meet their own enrollment goals. https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/DME%20Charter%20Application%20Needs%20Analysis%202020.pdf

The PCSB recently took a year off from approving new schools, and is overhauling its approval criteria. They do seem to be paying a lot of attention to whether schools can realistically hope to meet their enrollment targets. The PCSB, obviously, is not trying to force enrollment towards DCPS, but it does want to ensure that schools only open if they have a reasonable likelihood of attracting students. DCPS might like to curtail charters, but has little influence, although TBH some charters are doing that all on their own . I do think the improvement of DCPS elementaries EOTP in general has helped the sparkle come off certain charters (Mundo, CMI, SSMA, Lee), but those charters still exist and there's nothing stopping them from filling their seats if they have enough applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

I think Tubman is the assigned non-dual-language alternative to Bancroft, so that might explain that particular dynamic.

Makes sense. I wonder what happens to the budget for the others -- does DCPS do some sort of revenue share between its campuses? When I've heard Councilmembers say there are too many schools and too many facilities, I assumed that they were just talking about charters. But looking at this data, makes me nervous that they are aiming to curtail both charters and out of boundary seats to force enrollment in "by-right" neighborhood schools.

The per-pupil formula is done per school system, or "Local Education Authority" (LEA). DCPS is one LEA. Most charters are one LEA. So DCPS gets a certain amount per pupil from the city, but it is then free to allocate it by school however it sees fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

I think Tubman is the assigned non-dual-language alternative to Bancroft, so that might explain that particular dynamic.

Makes sense. I wonder what happens to the budget for the others -- does DCPS do some sort of revenue share between its campuses? When I've heard Councilmembers say there are too many schools and too many facilities, I assumed that they were just talking about charters. But looking at this data, makes me nervous that they are aiming to curtail both charters and out of boundary seats to force enrollment in "by-right" neighborhood schools.

The funding comes by the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula. It's not a transfer of revenue from the IB school to the attended school, it all comes straight from the main pot of money.

DCPS has closed so many of its schools that it really can't close or consolidate much more without giving people longer commutes than is desirable, and given the enrollment increases over the past decade it's unlikely they will want to close any more-- DCPS has to plan for the long term as the school of right for all residents, they can't just take as many as they want and ignore the rest, so they sometimes maintain capacity for future use. They are able to adjust boundaries and feeders, as well as add physical capacity through renovation, and they are doing both of those things now and in the near future.

The Deputy Mayor for Education did a memo in 2019 that you might find interesting. It's about the capacity of the whole system
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/School%20system%20capacity%20assessment%20new%20public%20charter%20applications%20FINAL%20051519.pdf

There is also this similar analysis from 2020. Lots of discussion of "unintentionally small" schools-- those that are attracting enough students to continue to exist, but not enough to meet their own enrollment goals. https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/DME%20Charter%20Application%20Needs%20Analysis%202020.pdf

The PCSB recently took a year off from approving new schools, and is overhauling its approval criteria. They do seem to be paying a lot of attention to whether schools can realistically hope to meet their enrollment targets. The PCSB, obviously, is not trying to force enrollment towards DCPS, but it does want to ensure that schools only open if they have a reasonable likelihood of attracting students. DCPS might like to curtail charters, but has little influence, although TBH some charters are doing that all on their own . I do think the improvement of DCPS elementaries EOTP in general has helped the sparkle come off certain charters (Mundo, CMI, SSMA, Lee), but those charters still exist and there's nothing stopping them from filling their seats if they have enough applicants.

Great post. Especially the links. A Councilmember said very specifically recently that we have to confront that there are too many schools right now. There are people looking to close schools and they are not only talking about charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

I think Tubman is the assigned non-dual-language alternative to Bancroft, so that might explain that particular dynamic.

Makes sense. I wonder what happens to the budget for the others -- does DCPS do some sort of revenue share between its campuses? When I've heard Councilmembers say there are too many schools and too many facilities, I assumed that they were just talking about charters. But looking at this data, makes me nervous that they are aiming to curtail both charters and out of boundary seats to force enrollment in "by-right" neighborhood schools.

The funding comes by the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula. It's not a transfer of revenue from the IB school to the attended school, it all comes straight from the main pot of money.

DCPS has closed so many of its schools that it really can't close or consolidate much more without giving people longer commutes than is desirable, and given the enrollment increases over the past decade it's unlikely they will want to close any more-- DCPS has to plan for the long term as the school of right for all residents, they can't just take as many as they want and ignore the rest, so they sometimes maintain capacity for future use. They are able to adjust boundaries and feeders, as well as add physical capacity through renovation, and they are doing both of those things now and in the near future.

The Deputy Mayor for Education did a memo in 2019 that you might find interesting. It's about the capacity of the whole system
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/School%20system%20capacity%20assessment%20new%20public%20charter%20applications%20FINAL%20051519.pdf

There is also this similar analysis from 2020. Lots of discussion of "unintentionally small" schools-- those that are attracting enough students to continue to exist, but not enough to meet their own enrollment goals. https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/DME%20Charter%20Application%20Needs%20Analysis%202020.pdf

The PCSB recently took a year off from approving new schools, and is overhauling its approval criteria. They do seem to be paying a lot of attention to whether schools can realistically hope to meet their enrollment targets. The PCSB, obviously, is not trying to force enrollment towards DCPS, but it does want to ensure that schools only open if they have a reasonable likelihood of attracting students. DCPS might like to curtail charters, but has little influence, although TBH some charters are doing that all on their own . I do think the improvement of DCPS elementaries EOTP in general has helped the sparkle come off certain charters (Mundo, CMI, SSMA, Lee), but those charters still exist and there's nothing stopping them from filling their seats if they have enough applicants.

Great post. Especially the links. A Councilmember said very specifically recently that we have to confront that there are too many schools right now. There are people looking to close schools and they are not only talking about charters.

Well, I'm curious which schools they want to close. If you look at DCPS' long-term enrollment projections, and remember that every student still has to be assigned to a DCPS by-right school within a reasonable commute, then it's really hard to close schools. You'd have to figure out how to re-assign every single kid to a school that has enough room to take them, and still maintain enough capacity for long-term growth. It's not like they never close schools (Washington Metropolitan comes to mind for example), but closing neighborhood schools is logistically a struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the numbers in reverse is fascinating. Some charter schools are pulling 50, 80, 100+ kids from individual neighborhood schools.

Wow. So are some DCPS schools. McKinley is pulling 166 kids from Dunbar, Coolidge is pulling 100, Wilson/Jackson Reed is pulling 98. Altogether, DCPS high schools pull nearly 1,000 kids from Dunbar. Turner and Stanton are pulling 100 kids from Garfield Elementary. Cooke, Tubman and other DCPS schools are pulling 80 kids from Bancroft.

The intra-DCPS competition over students seems worst at high schools. Cardozo is losing about 900 students to other DCPS high schools. Eastern is losing over 700 to other DCPS schools.

I think Tubman is the assigned non-dual-language alternative to Bancroft, so that might explain that particular dynamic.

Makes sense. I wonder what happens to the budget for the others -- does DCPS do some sort of revenue share between its campuses? When I've heard Councilmembers say there are too many schools and too many facilities, I assumed that they were just talking about charters. But looking at this data, makes me nervous that they are aiming to curtail both charters and out of boundary seats to force enrollment in "by-right" neighborhood schools.

The funding comes by the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula. It's not a transfer of revenue from the IB school to the attended school, it all comes straight from the main pot of money.

DCPS has closed so many of its schools that it really can't close or consolidate much more without giving people longer commutes than is desirable, and given the enrollment increases over the past decade it's unlikely they will want to close any more-- DCPS has to plan for the long term as the school of right for all residents, they can't just take as many as they want and ignore the rest, so they sometimes maintain capacity for future use. They are able to adjust boundaries and feeders, as well as add physical capacity through renovation, and they are doing both of those things now and in the near future.

The Deputy Mayor for Education did a memo in 2019 that you might find interesting. It's about the capacity of the whole system
https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/School%20system%20capacity%20assessment%20new%20public%20charter%20applications%20FINAL%20051519.pdf

There is also this similar analysis from 2020. Lots of discussion of "unintentionally small" schools-- those that are attracting enough students to continue to exist, but not enough to meet their own enrollment goals. https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/DME%20Charter%20Application%20Needs%20Analysis%202020.pdf

The PCSB recently took a year off from approving new schools, and is overhauling its approval criteria. They do seem to be paying a lot of attention to whether schools can realistically hope to meet their enrollment targets. The PCSB, obviously, is not trying to force enrollment towards DCPS, but it does want to ensure that schools only open if they have a reasonable likelihood of attracting students. DCPS might like to curtail charters, but has little influence, although TBH some charters are doing that all on their own . I do think the improvement of DCPS elementaries EOTP in general has helped the sparkle come off certain charters (Mundo, CMI, SSMA, Lee), but those charters still exist and there's nothing stopping them from filling their seats if they have enough applicants.

They DCPS EOTP schools are “improving” only by DCUM standards. Did you really look at the participation rate for DCPS EOTP? My IB has 19% participation rate, I don’t think that is going to improve anytime soon.

[Anonymous]

Can someone explain the difference in column G: percent in boundary and column H: boundary participation rate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone explain the difference in column G: percent in boundary and column H: boundary participation rate?

Let's say a school has 100 students and 75 of them live in-boundary, the percent in-boundary is 75%. Let's say further that there are 150 kids who live in-boundary and attend DCPS or DCPCS schools. The in-boundary participation rate is 50%.