Money Money Money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes money provides so much.

Where does it fall on your list of priorities? If you have money is it important that you let other people know by material things? Do you assume people are jealous of you?

It seems like many responses point to money money money being the driving factor.

Money is very high on my list because I come from a poor family. I'm the first one in my family to go to college.
I have escaped poverty and I now consider myself UMC.
I have experienced growing up that rich people are treated with more respect. The poor are ignored and disrespected.
I buy expensive things to let other people know that I have money. Everywhere I go, I'm more respected and I'm getting better services because of it.

Are you a minority? Because I'm a waspy looking white woman and I do NOT buy expensive things (although I maintain a very neat and tidy appearance) and do not find I am lacking respect or services.

Not PP, but I do think minorities, especially Latinos and African Americans, wouldn’t have the same customer service experience across the board that you take for granted. I think sometimes minorities are racially profiled as shoplifting risks, etc. if it doesn’t appear like they are wealthy.

Yes, I’m AA and I an always deliberate about looking put together and stealth wealth signaling so that I get better/acceptable treatment. And it’s true, I’ve had (white) people go from not acknowledging me to asking me out to eat once they see a Bottega Veneta purse, or learning where I went to school, etc. it’s gross that it makes a difference, but it does.

Curious, how do you practice stealth wealth and look put together / wear a Bottega Veneta purse -- which I assume is expensive since you're mentioning the name. Sounds like a contradiction.

They're not the same thing, and can readily be done at the same time.

Looking put together is about grooming, and about wearing the right clothing for the environment. It's dressing business casual at the doctors office rather than wearing ripped jeans and an oversized, free t-shirt because you don't have to be in the office that day, or wearing a suit to court to contest your speeding ticket (because literally everyone else will be in pajamas). It's about not wearing visible labels on clothing, or having your clothes tailored so that it fits your body. Looking put together is about having my hair proactively styled - no bedhead or sloppy buns. You can look put together regardless of your socio economic class and the amount of money you spend on clothes and accessories. Looking put together gets you better treatment everywhere.

Stealth wealth is really just class signaling, just upper class signals specifically. It's stuff that is recognizable to a certain class but aren't known/don't stick out to people who aren't. One of the things that I learned from attending fancy private schools is that there are lots of small (and big) things that signal class. A lot of it is recognizable to people who can also afford it and know about it, but won't stick out to people who don't. Bottega Veneta is just an example of a heritage brand that has very distinctive designs that are obvious to anyone who knows about it, but it's not like a Louis Vuitton bag that is so mainstream that it's 100% recognizable to everyone. (Though this is changing, because Bottega Veneta has become so trendy in the last 5-10 years - though their trendy designs are a departure from their historical designs, so there's a difference there.) I distinctly remember a college friend of mine going out and buying a 2K Bottega Veneta purse on a random Tuesday. It was ridiculous, while I had spent the better part of the school year in my workstudy job trying to save up money to buy myself a laptop so I wouldn't have to write my papers in the computer lab in the basement. But the signal also doesn't have to be super expensive, even as it suggests something expensive. For example, boat shoes. They can cost $75, and be widely purchased by a lot of people, but in the right context, they suggest you have routine access to a boat and need specific shoes that are grippy but don't leave marks. I literally never saw a pair of boat shoes before going to private school. There are middle class signals too (think the heyday of the GAP or J.CREW or modern day Madewell). I just personally choose upper class signals because I get better treatment when I travel in upper class circles (and if you know what you're looking for, a lot of it is actually better made too).

I’ve never thought that dressing better would get you better treatment. Is this really a thing or primarily if you are AA? Can you give some examples? I’m Asian and go to the doctors office looking sloppy and never thought it would make a difference.

In my experience, yes, dressing better get you better treatment. In the examples I gave above (from my real life), my ticket was dismissed when no one else's was. My daughter has a rare disease and she has a number of specialists and has had a number of ER visits to Children's Hospital. Our DD's neurologist will literally tell other providers that we are "good parents" because she thinks it's necessary to share that information for us to get better care. (DD's neurologist is also POC so she gets it.) Long story short, American culture is steeped in racism, misogyny, and classism, and given that, these are things that I do to get acknowledged and treated as human. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it makes no difference.

If you're actually Asian and not just a troll, you might get better treatment without needing to do those things because this may be one scenario where you can benefit from model minority stereotypes, but there's a pretty good chance that if you dressed better, you might get better treatment too.

[Anonymous]

My spouse is European and this has somewhat changed several financial considerations for me. I don't stress as much about having enough to cover my medical bills in retirement, nor about college costs. Given the strong social safety net in Europe and our own levels of education, falling into poverty is not something that we stress too much about. If things don't work out for us state-side there is always the sense that we can go to Europe and have a stable MC life there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes money provides so much.

Where does it fall on your list of priorities? If you have money is it important that you let other people know by material things? Do you assume people are jealous of you?

It seems like many responses point to money money money being the driving factor.

Money is very high on my list because I come from a poor family. I'm the first one in my family to go to college.
I have escaped poverty and I now consider myself UMC.
I have experienced growing up that rich people are treated with more respect. The poor are ignored and disrespected.
I buy expensive things to let other people know that I have money. Everywhere I go, I'm more respected and I'm getting better services because of it.

Are you a minority? Because I'm a waspy looking white woman and I do NOT buy expensive things (although I maintain a very neat and tidy appearance) and do not find I am lacking respect or services.

Not PP, but I do think minorities, especially Latinos and African Americans, wouldn’t have the same customer service experience across the board that you take for granted. I think sometimes minorities are racially profiled as shoplifting risks, etc. if it doesn’t appear like they are wealthy.

Yes, I’m AA and I an always deliberate about looking put together and stealth wealth signaling so that I get better/acceptable treatment. And it’s true, I’ve had (white) people go from not acknowledging me to asking me out to eat once they see a Bottega Veneta purse, or learning where I went to school, etc. it’s gross that it makes a difference, but it does.

Curious, how do you practice stealth wealth and look put together / wear a Bottega Veneta purse -- which I assume is expensive since you're mentioning the name. Sounds like a contradiction.

They're not the same thing, and can readily be done at the same time.

Looking put together is about grooming, and about wearing the right clothing for the environment. It's dressing business casual at the doctors office rather than wearing ripped jeans and an oversized, free t-shirt because you don't have to be in the office that day, or wearing a suit to court to contest your speeding ticket (because literally everyone else will be in pajamas). It's about not wearing visible labels on clothing, or having your clothes tailored so that it fits your body. Looking put together is about having my hair proactively styled - no bedhead or sloppy buns. You can look put together regardless of your socio economic class and the amount of money you spend on clothes and accessories. Looking put together gets you better treatment everywhere.

Stealth wealth is really just class signaling, just upper class signals specifically. It's stuff that is recognizable to a certain class but aren't known/don't stick out to people who aren't. One of the things that I learned from attending fancy private schools is that there are lots of small (and big) things that signal class. A lot of it is recognizable to people who can also afford it and know about it, but won't stick out to people who don't. Bottega Veneta is just an example of a heritage brand that has very distinctive designs that are obvious to anyone who knows about it, but it's not like a Louis Vuitton bag that is so mainstream that it's 100% recognizable to everyone. (Though this is changing, because Bottega Veneta has become so trendy in the last 5-10 years - though their trendy designs are a departure from their historical designs, so there's a difference there.) I distinctly remember a college friend of mine going out and buying a 2K Bottega Veneta purse on a random Tuesday. It was ridiculous, while I had spent the better part of the school year in my workstudy job trying to save up money to buy myself a laptop so I wouldn't have to write my papers in the computer lab in the basement. But the signal also doesn't have to be super expensive, even as it suggests something expensive. For example, boat shoes. They can cost $75, and be widely purchased by a lot of people, but in the right context, they suggest you have routine access to a boat and need specific shoes that are grippy but don't leave marks. I literally never saw a pair of boat shoes before going to private school. There are middle class signals too (think the heyday of the GAP or J.CREW or modern day Madewell). I just personally choose upper class signals because I get better treatment when I travel in upper class circles (and if you know what you're looking for, a lot of it is actually better made too).

I’ve never thought that dressing better would get you better treatment. Is this really a thing or primarily if you are AA? Can you give some examples? I’m Asian and go to the doctors office looking sloppy and never thought it would make a difference.

Um, of course it's a thing (?) is this really news to you?

Yes? Why would I be treated better if I’m wearing business casual vs. if I’m wearing a hoodie and leggings or something. I mean I don’t look like I rolled out of bed and didn’t shower; I’m just not going to go to the store looking nicer bc I want the cashier to be nicer to me?

It matters at a store if it means some employee is less likely to follow you around and treat you as though you're shoplifting. It matters at a doctors office if they're pressured to stay on schedule and they subconsciously make a split second decision on whether you're worth spending time on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes money provides so much.

Where does it fall on your list of priorities? If you have money is it important that you let other people know by material things? Do you assume people are jealous of you?

It seems like many responses point to money money money being the driving factor.

Money is very high on my list because I come from a poor family. I'm the first one in my family to go to college.
I have escaped poverty and I now consider myself UMC.
I have experienced growing up that rich people are treated with more respect. The poor are ignored and disrespected.
I buy expensive things to let other people know that I have money. Everywhere I go, I'm more respected and I'm getting better services because of it.

Are you a minority? Because I'm a waspy looking white woman and I do NOT buy expensive things (although I maintain a very neat and tidy appearance) and do not find I am lacking respect or services.

Not PP, but I do think minorities, especially Latinos and African Americans, wouldn’t have the same customer service experience across the board that you take for granted. I think sometimes minorities are racially profiled as shoplifting risks, etc. if it doesn’t appear like they are wealthy.

Yes, I’m AA and I an always deliberate about looking put together and stealth wealth signaling so that I get better/acceptable treatment. And it’s true, I’ve had (white) people go from not acknowledging me to asking me out to eat once they see a Bottega Veneta purse, or learning where I went to school, etc. it’s gross that it makes a difference, but it does.

Curious, how do you practice stealth wealth and look put together / wear a Bottega Veneta purse -- which I assume is expensive since you're mentioning the name. Sounds like a contradiction.

They're not the same thing, and can readily be done at the same time.

Looking put together is about grooming, and about wearing the right clothing for the environment. It's dressing business casual at the doctors office rather than wearing ripped jeans and an oversized, free t-shirt because you don't have to be in the office that day, or wearing a suit to court to contest your speeding ticket (because literally everyone else will be in pajamas). It's about not wearing visible labels on clothing, or having your clothes tailored so that it fits your body. Looking put together is about having my hair proactively styled - no bedhead or sloppy buns. You can look put together regardless of your socio economic class and the amount of money you spend on clothes and accessories. Looking put together gets you better treatment everywhere.

Stealth wealth is really just class signaling, just upper class signals specifically. It's stuff that is recognizable to a certain class but aren't known/don't stick out to people who aren't. One of the things that I learned from attending fancy private schools is that there are lots of small (and big) things that signal class. A lot of it is recognizable to people who can also afford it and know about it, but won't stick out to people who don't. Bottega Veneta is just an example of a heritage brand that has very distinctive designs that are obvious to anyone who knows about it, but it's not like a Louis Vuitton bag that is so mainstream that it's 100% recognizable to everyone. (Though this is changing, because Bottega Veneta has become so trendy in the last 5-10 years - though their trendy designs are a departure from their historical designs, so there's a difference there.) I distinctly remember a college friend of mine going out and buying a 2K Bottega Veneta purse on a random Tuesday. It was ridiculous, while I had spent the better part of the school year in my workstudy job trying to save up money to buy myself a laptop so I wouldn't have to write my papers in the computer lab in the basement. But the signal also doesn't have to be super expensive, even as it suggests something expensive. For example, boat shoes. They can cost $75, and be widely purchased by a lot of people, but in the right context, they suggest you have routine access to a boat and need specific shoes that are grippy but don't leave marks. I literally never saw a pair of boat shoes before going to private school. There are middle class signals too (think the heyday of the GAP or J.CREW or modern day Madewell). I just personally choose upper class signals because I get better treatment when I travel in upper class circles (and if you know what you're looking for, a lot of it is actually better made too).

I’ve never thought that dressing better would get you better treatment. Is this really a thing or primarily if you are AA? Can you give some examples? I’m Asian and go to the doctors office looking sloppy and never thought it would make a difference.

In my experience, yes, dressing better get you better treatment. In the examples I gave above (from my real life), my ticket was dismissed when no one else's was. My daughter has a rare disease and she has a number of specialists and has had a number of ER visits to Children's Hospital. Our DD's neurologist will literally tell other providers that we are "good parents" because she thinks it's necessary to share that information for us to get better care. (DD's neurologist is also POC so she gets it.) Long story short, American culture is steeped in racism, misogyny, and classism, and given that, these are things that I do to get acknowledged and treated as human. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it makes no difference.

If you're actually Asian and not just a troll, you might get better treatment without needing to do those things because this may be one scenario where you can benefit from model minority stereotypes, but there's a pretty good chance that if you dressed better, you might get better treatment too.

Not a troll. I'm an Asian mid-30s mom with young kids (and I mostly work from home) and generally dress like I'm headed to yoga class. I'll maybe dress up a little if I feel like it but it's more to feel good and not to get something in return from other people. But that's interesting to hear, maybe I'll try that. I think of dressing up as just looking more fashionable and not necessarily looking more wealthy, which I think is what people are suggesting? I don't think I look poor, just because I'm dressed down.

[Anonymous]

I think having money, especially a lot, allows you to live life to the fullest. You can see the world and do interesting things. It also usually buys you more free time to do these things and to share them with friends and family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like everything else, perspective is required. I retired early as a big law partner with a net worth of about $4 million. A decade later, I’m worth about $7 million. When I left my firm I was making close to $1 million a year, and had I stayed where I was by now I’d likely be making close to $1.5 million a year and my net worth would probably be double what it now is. But it wasn’t worth it to me. Yes, money is important but it isn’t everything.

You were making almost a million a year, and your net worth was only $4 million? You were a huge spender and worked like a maniac. My husband and I made about $450,000 a year at most and when he retired, our net worth was over $8 million. And neither of us worked like biglaw partners do in the early years. Holy cow!

I said when I left my firm I was making almost $1 million a year. I didn't make that for many years. I retired "early" as a big law partner, almost 15 years before typical retirement age. How old were the two of you when you retired? I'll also add that we had four kids and put them all through college before retiring. How many kids did you have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like everything else, perspective is required. I retired early as a big law partner with a net worth of about $4 million. A decade later, I’m worth about $7 million. When I left my firm I was making close to $1 million a year, and had I stayed where I was by now I’d likely be making close to $1.5 million a year and my net worth would probably be double what it now is. But it wasn’t worth it to me. Yes, money is important but it isn’t everything.

You were making almost a million a year, and your net worth was only $4 million? You were a huge spender and worked like a maniac. My husband and I made about $450,000 a year at most and when he retired, our net worth was over $8 million. And neither of us worked like biglaw partners do in the early years. Holy cow!

I said when I left my firm I was making almost $1 million a year. I didn't make that for many years. I retired "early" as a big law partner, almost 15 years before typical retirement age. How old were the two of you when you retired? I'll also add that we had four kids and put them all through college before retiring. How many kids did you have?

I am still working (at 57). We have two kids, one in grad school and one a junior in college. Our net worth was $8.7 million in our early/mid 50s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like everything else, perspective is required. I retired early as a big law partner with a net worth of about $4 million. A decade later, I’m worth about $7 million. When I left my firm I was making close to $1 million a year, and had I stayed where I was by now I’d likely be making close to $1.5 million a year and my net worth would probably be double what it now is. But it wasn’t worth it to me. Yes, money is important but it isn’t everything.

You were making almost a million a year, and your net worth was only $4 million? You were a huge spender and worked like a maniac. My husband and I made about $450,000 a year at most and when he retired, our net worth was over $8 million. And neither of us worked like biglaw partners do in the early years. Holy cow!

I said when I left my firm I was making almost $1 million a year. I didn't make that for many years. I retired "early" as a big law partner, almost 15 years before typical retirement age. How old were the two of you when you retired? I'll also add that we had four kids and put them all through college before retiring. How many kids did you have?

I am still working (at 57). We have two kids, one in grad school and one a junior in college. Our net worth was $8.7 million in our early/mid 50s.

Well, we had double the kids that you did, had them all before turning 30, were never a dual income family, and the two of you over the longer term likely made more money combined than I did alone. All of that plus I suspect we had more fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes money provides so much.

Where does it fall on your list of priorities? If you have money is it important that you let other people know by material things? Do you assume people are jealous of you?

It seems like many responses point to money money money being the driving factor.

Money is very high on my list because I come from a poor family. I'm the first one in my family to go to college.
I have escaped poverty and I now consider myself UMC.
I have experienced growing up that rich people are treated with more respect. The poor are ignored and disrespected.
I buy expensive things to let other people know that I have money. Everywhere I go, I'm more respected and I'm getting better services because of it.

Are you a minority? Because I'm a waspy looking white woman and I do NOT buy expensive things (although I maintain a very neat and tidy appearance) and do not find I am lacking respect or services.

Not PP, but I do think minorities, especially Latinos and African Americans, wouldn’t have the same customer service experience across the board that you take for granted. I think sometimes minorities are racially profiled as shoplifting risks, etc. if it doesn’t appear like they are wealthy.

Yes, I’m AA and I an always deliberate about looking put together and stealth wealth signaling so that I get better/acceptable treatment. And it’s true, I’ve had (white) people go from not acknowledging me to asking me out to eat once they see a Bottega Veneta purse, or learning where I went to school, etc. it’s gross that it makes a difference, but it does.

Curious, how do you practice stealth wealth and look put together / wear a Bottega Veneta purse -- which I assume is expensive since you're mentioning the name. Sounds like a contradiction.

They're not the same thing, and can readily be done at the same time.

Looking put together is about grooming, and about wearing the right clothing for the environment. It's dressing business casual at the doctors office rather than wearing ripped jeans and an oversized, free t-shirt because you don't have to be in the office that day, or wearing a suit to court to contest your speeding ticket (because literally everyone else will be in pajamas). It's about not wearing visible labels on clothing, or having your clothes tailored so that it fits your body. Looking put together is about having my hair proactively styled - no bedhead or sloppy buns. You can look put together regardless of your socio economic class and the amount of money you spend on clothes and accessories. Looking put together gets you better treatment everywhere.

Stealth wealth is really just class signaling, just upper class signals specifically. It's stuff that is recognizable to a certain class but aren't known/don't stick out to people who aren't. One of the things that I learned from attending fancy private schools is that there are lots of small (and big) things that signal class. A lot of it is recognizable to people who can also afford it and know about it, but won't stick out to people who don't. Bottega Veneta is just an example of a heritage brand that has very distinctive designs that are obvious to anyone who knows about it, but it's not like a Louis Vuitton bag that is so mainstream that it's 100% recognizable to everyone. (Though this is changing, because Bottega Veneta has become so trendy in the last 5-10 years - though their trendy designs are a departure from their historical designs, so there's a difference there.) I distinctly remember a college friend of mine going out and buying a 2K Bottega Veneta purse on a random Tuesday. It was ridiculous, while I had spent the better part of the school year in my workstudy job trying to save up money to buy myself a laptop so I wouldn't have to write my papers in the computer lab in the basement. But the signal also doesn't have to be super expensive, even as it suggests something expensive. For example, boat shoes. They can cost $75, and be widely purchased by a lot of people, but in the right context, they suggest you have routine access to a boat and need specific shoes that are grippy but don't leave marks. I literally never saw a pair of boat shoes before going to private school. There are middle class signals too (think the heyday of the GAP or J.CREW or modern day Madewell). I just personally choose upper class signals because I get better treatment when I travel in upper class circles (and if you know what you're looking for, a lot of it is actually better made too).

I’ve never thought that dressing better would get you better treatment. Is this really a thing or primarily if you are AA? Can you give some examples? I’m Asian and go to the doctors office looking sloppy and never thought it would make a difference.

Um, of course it's a thing (?) is this really news to you?

This is a no-brainer. If you dress better, you get better treatment.

It is not about race. I am a Caucasian woman (age 53), and my mom (age 80) still dresses really nicely when going to the grocery store, the post office, the mall, the doctor's office, and on an airplane. She gets so many compliments on her appearance, her outfits, and how young she looks. (She has never had plastic surgery, and does not over-do it with make-up etc. She just looks very put-together.) People treat her with respect because she shows respect to the occasion by always dressing nicely.

She always taught me that, when choosing an outfit, "comfort should not be your #1 priority."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes money provides so much.

Where does it fall on your list of priorities? If you have money is it important that you let other people know by material things? Do you assume people are jealous of you?

It seems like many responses point to money money money being the driving factor.

Money can buy happiness, but only up to a point. There is a point of diminishing returns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me money = security and safety. Fortunately, I have realized in my early 40s that no amount will ever be "enough" for me to feel safe, so I'm working on that.

This is the same for me