Discrimination by boyscout Troop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean "let in"? Did you try to apply?

Yes and they told us not to apply - there wasn't enough room for us. Except there was for everyone else.

Apply now

[Anonymous]

What is the awesome points about Eagles? Personal achievment, help with college application, or job hunting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the awesome points about Eagles? Personal achievment, help with college application, or job hunting?

You wouldn't know it from our area but earning Eagle Scout is still relatively rare. About 5% of all Scouts starting in a BSA Troop earn Eagle. It takes patience, perseverance, and service over a period of years when a good number of kids choose to leave Scouting. Our area is a bit different because there are a lot of people who understand that earning Eagle or the Girl Scouts equivalent, the Gold Award, is helpful for college applications and can be helpful in job hunting as an adult. But, Eagle means that Scouts have worked through every rank in BSA, which is time consuming and requires a good amount of effort. It takes at least 3-4 years of active participation in a Troop, most kids take closer to 5-6 years. The service project is the bigger hurdle for kids. This is supposed to be something that the Scout develops, advertises, and coordinates. It shows a level of organization and commitment that is not necessarily common in the teenage crowd.

I know that if you have earned Eagle and join the military, you earn an additional rank when you complete basic training. Eagle Scouts receive a boost on their college applications. We have friends with college age kids who bemoan their child not completing Eagle because it is becoming one of the rare items on a college application that stands out. It also helps with writing essays and the like because it provides different experiences on a college essay that helps the student stand out. With more schools going to test optional applications, more kids adding on layers of extra curricular activities, and more kids taking AP/IB classes, the Eagle and Gold awards stand out.

NOVA has enough people involved in Scouting and invested in kids earning Eagle that there are merit badge classes you can send your Scout to in order to complete a merit badge, this makes earning a merit badge easier then in other parts of the Country. In other areas, Scouts have to take more ownership of their merit badge work because they need to see out a merit badge counselor for specific badges and that is not always easy to find. The Scouts in the NOVA area still have to complete the merit badge requirements, learn the material, and demonstrate that they know the material but the classes certainly make it easier to complete the merit badges you need in order to earn rank, including Eagle. But this area has enough people who are very interested in their kids attending a top 10 school that they see the Eagle rank as a good way of helping kids stand out on their applications.

There are Troops in this area that have a rep for pushing kids through Eagle. They know the merit badge classes, they have identified the easiest merit badges to complete, and the Troop is structured to get kids through the ranks and service projects. It is not uncommon to see some Troops in NOVA with 5-6 Scouts earning Eagle in a year. All the Eagle Scouts I know, and I work with a bunch, have mentioned how their Eagle achievement is discussed in interviews even in their 30's. And the Eagle Scouts have a decent network that they can operate in which I am sure is helpful when job hunting and the like. I know of two Troops, not going to name them, where none of the people who are active in the local Cub Scout Packs bridge to but the Troops are large and there are lots of Eagle Scout ranks earned. It seems like the kids join in Middle School and are active for 4 years and then gone when they earn Eagle.

DS is looking at Troops this year and removed two from his list because he thought all the Scouts talked about was advancement and it felt like a bit much for him. Every Troop that we visited spent time discussing their support for Eagle because they know it is important for some parents and kids.

Here are the requirements: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/3321621-08-Eagle.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry this happened to you, but were there behavior problems? That's the only thing that explains it. The adults and maybe even the other kids were just done and lied to make sure you didn't cross over with them? Learning disabilities really don't matter in scouts.

Learning disabilities do matter to some troops. Some troops are really big on having so many Eagle Scouts and kids like mine with ASD and ADD are not likely to make it to eagle.

Then that is not a Troop that you would want to look at. DS is bridging and we talked about the Troops we visited. He removed one because the Scouts were too focused on advancement and he wanted a Troop that supported getting to Eagle but where it was not the only drive.

And I am going to agree with the person who said that learning issues don't necessarily mean you can't get to Eagle. Several friends have kids with IEPs in Scouts who have already completed the merit badges needed for Eagle and are starting to work on their Eagle Project.

I am not going to speculate on what happened in the OPs Den or with this particular Troop but there is more to the story then we are hearing. I don't doubt that the kids were excluded and I don't doubt that it hurts badly. This is more then the Den Leader. The Scouts in my sons Den have been discussing what Troops they like and were they are looking amongst themselves. I fully expect that they will end up in 2-3 Troops but everyone will go with a friend. If the kids did not know that the other kids were planning on this other Troop and only found out at bridging, then the entire group made a decision not to share information. Which sucks but points to missing pieces of the puzzle.

What do you think these missing pieces are?

You don’t think that it is strange that every other Parent of a kid in the Den was able to communicate with one another and know to apply when the two other kids parents did not? You don’t have that type of coordinated exclusion by chance. Not to mention none of the other kids mentioning that they were joining Troop X to the two kids that were excluded. The OP makes it sound like the kids in the Den were friends or at least friendly and was surprised that this happened when that does not appear to be the case.

DP. You don’t think it’s strange that this troop happened to end up as one of the whitest, NT-only troops? You don’t have that kind of coordinated exclusion by chance.

Depending on where you live this definitely occurs. In our area we heard about numerous parent-led groups excluding kids for various reasons. It was usually special needs but you also saw the racial exclusion although that was less open. Boy scouts, MSI soccer, baseball and other rec type sports.

[Anonymous]

The worst part about the exclusion is that often the organizational leadership turns a blind eye or supports it because they want to keep parent volunteers or coaches. The things we saw happen would make you want to scream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The worst part about the exclusion is that often the organizational leadership turns a blind eye or supports it because they want to keep parent volunteers or coaches. The things we saw happen would make you want to scream.

Oh no, I’m in the process of signing my autistic child up for scouts but I’m worried about how he’ll be treated. Can’t there be anything nice for kids with special needs??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The worst part about the exclusion is that often the organizational leadership turns a blind eye or supports it because they want to keep parent volunteers or coaches. The things we saw happen would make you want to scream.

Oh no, I’m in the process of signing my autistic child up for scouts but I’m worried about how he’ll be treated. Can’t there be anything nice for kids with special needs??

DS's Den has 3 kids with ADHD and 1 kid with ASD, they are all moving tot he same Troop together.

Scouts, like every other organization with Adult leaders who are volunteers, ends up reflecting the Adult Leaders. If you have Adults who are open to many kinds of kids, then you will find a supportive environment. That said, there was one Scout that our Den Leader had to talk to the parents about pulling from the Den. The Scouts issues were beyond what the volunteers could handle and the Parents were not staying at meetings to support the child. Or when they were there, they didn't intervene when their child became dis-regulated. The call was made based on safety of the Scout and the other Scouts.

Packs and Troops allow kids to attend meetings and see how they operate. That should give you a good idea about how a specific Pack/Troop will engage your child. You can talk to Den Leaders about their experience with a child with Autism. You might not be able to treat Scouts as a drop off activity the way the parents of a NT kid might be able to do but it doesn't mean it might not be a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure I'm completely following- and I'm really sorry this happened to you. I think its fine to file a complaint- but I doubt it will get you anywhere. It sounds like your cub scout leader discouraged/ told you not to apply. Its unclear if the boy scout troup actually had any involvement in this or not? I'm also unclear- are you boys in 5th or 6th grade now? Are they in a different troup? If not and they are in FCC- just join the other boy scout troup- troup 1996 is a nice FCC troup. You can join later- you don't have to join right when you 'graduate' from cub scouts.
Also- now you know the character of the cub scout leader- be careful in ongoing dealings with this person.

+1. OP’s story doesn’t hold up. She was passive in the application process but now wants to complain.

I disagree with you and have seen this in scouting myself.

I’m not the OP, but I’m 100% sure that this happened. Something similar happened to my DS in Boy Scouts. Years later, it still irks me. Do people still do scouts nowadays? I thought it was dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The worst part about the exclusion is that often the organizational leadership turns a blind eye or supports it because they want to keep parent volunteers or coaches. The things we saw happen would make you want to scream.

Oh no, I’m in the process of signing my autistic child up for scouts but I’m worried about how he’ll be treated. Can’t there be anything nice for kids with special needs??

There are plenty of great troops that are welcoming to everyone. The one DC joined has very welcoming parents and kids. It's just awful for OP and others who encounter bad ones.

[Anonymous]

My DS loved his Cub Scout troop, but when he bridged to Boy Scouts his troop was way too intense and almost para-military in nature. It was like future MAGA leaders in training. My DS was turned off and it seems a lot of boys drop it in late MS/early high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS loved his Cub Scout troop, but when he bridged to Boy Scouts his troop was way too intense and almost para-military in nature. It was like future MAGA leaders in training. My DS was turned off and it seems a lot of boys drop it in late MS/early high school.

Did you look for other Troops? I know that the NOVA area has lots of Troops with very different personalities but not every part of the country has the same oppertunities.

[Anonymous]

I think it has to do with mom cliques. A mom or two wanted their kids on that troop and finds out they have 10 openings. The cliquey moms make sure they tell their friends to quickly sign up their kids. So by the time OP gets around to finding out options for Boy Scouts there really isn’t space so they say don’t bother applying.
I don’t think it has to do with your son has LD’s. I think it is you aren’t in that mom clique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it has to do with mom cliques. A mom or two wanted their kids on that troop and finds out they have 10 openings. The cliquey moms make sure they tell their friends to quickly sign up their kids. So by the time OP gets around to finding out options for Boy Scouts there really isn’t space so they say don’t bother applying.
I don’t think it has to do with your son has LD’s. I think it is you aren’t in that mom clique.

I think the fact that the excluded kids are somehow different - LDs, neurodivergent, etc. - is why they were left out. There may be a "mom clique" as well (also why must this be gendered? Dads pull this sh!t as well) but this clique certainly formed within the context of some kids being neurodivergent.

[Anonymous]

Some troops are welcoming. Some aren't. You really don't want to join the former even if you could force yourself in. My kid's troop ended up with a schism and started a new, separate troop when a few parents in the former tried to wrest control from the boys.

[Anonymous]

I doubt that all the boys moved up to Boy Scouts. I have two boys who did Cub Scouts and did not move to Boy Scouts in sixth grade. I would say many dropped out. I know it may seem and feel like they left you out. Our cub scouts den leader checked out towards the end.