Discrimination by boyscout Troop

[Anonymous]

I have two Arrows of Light Webelos who will be bridging very soon. That is terrible to hear that a troop would do something like that.

I recommend that you contact Dawn Greenwood ([e-mail]). Dawn is the district executive for the Old Dominion district of BSA. That is the district for which all troops in Falls Church, Arlington and Fairfax belong. I think you need to make the district executive aware that a troop in her district did something that is very much in violation of the intent of Scouts USA. Scouts USA wants to rebuild their image as an all-inclusive organization and this should not be allowed.

Whether she does anything or not, it needs to be brought to her attention for her to research at a minimum. And record for future record in case they try something like this again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two Arrows of Light Webelos who will be bridging very soon. That is terrible to hear that a troop would do something like that.

I recommend that you contact Dawn Greenwood ([e-mail]). Dawn is the district executive for the Old Dominion district of BSA. That is the district for which all troops in Falls Church, Arlington and Fairfax belong. I think you need to make the district executive aware that a troop in her district did something that is very much in violation of the intent of Scouts USA. Scouts USA wants to rebuild their image as an all-inclusive organization and this should not be allowed.

Whether she does anything or not, it needs to be brought to her attention for her to research at a minimum. And record for future record in case they try something like this again.

Appreciate the contact information. The size issue is legitimate and was a condition of this troop starting with other more established troops nearby. But it's one thing to have a size limitation and it's another thing to use it to cherry pick or discriminate against kids.

It absolutely felt pre-planned and deliberate. Our den leader, who arranged it, claimed that somehow the other kids were told to apply when they found "extra space" but didn't tell us. Even his excuse was lame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing about boys scouts troops is that they are run by the parents. I totally believe that the leaders lied to you because they did not want to accommodate the boys' disabilities. You can complain to BSA but don't expect any significant action. I'm sorry this happened to you. My own boys dropped out because the leaders were not handling a bullying issue. Honestly, it was a relief.

I don't know how many parents were involved but it most definitely involved our den leader. It's very disappointing and it makes me angry for my son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two Arrows of Light Webelos who will be bridging very soon. That is terrible to hear that a troop would do something like that.

I recommend that you contact Dawn Greenwood ([e-mail]). Dawn is the district executive for the Old Dominion district of BSA. That is the district for which all troops in Falls Church, Arlington and Fairfax belong. I think you need to make the district executive aware that a troop in her district did something that is very much in violation of the intent of Scouts USA. Scouts USA wants to rebuild their image as an all-inclusive organization and this should not be allowed.

Whether she does anything or not, it needs to be brought to her attention for her to research at a minimum. And record for future record in case they try something like this again.

Appreciate the contact information. The size issue is legitimate and was a condition of this troop starting with other more established troops nearby. But it's one thing to have a size limitation and it's another thing to use it to cherry pick or discriminate against kids.

It absolutely felt pre-planned and deliberate. Our den leader, who arranged it, claimed that somehow the other kids were told to apply when they found "extra space" but didn't tell us. Even his excuse was lame.

Regardless of the size restriction, the fact that they cherry picked which children to "invite to apply" and those were the non-special needs children, but the special needs children were excluded is still an issue that the district executive needs to know. Scouts USA has been trying to rebuild the image of the scouting and this type of thing is exactly the thing that is the one step backwards in "two steps forward, one step back". It needs to be addressed even if it doesn't change anything for the excluded boys. The troop in question needs to be put on notice that they need to be aware of appearances and that they need to be more careful about such actions.

Besides, over the last few months, I've attended a scouting "Meet the Troops" where I spoke with about 12 troops in our area and we have now had 4 troop visits. We've visited large and small troops and I have not yet found a troop that had a size limit. All have generally been open to any and all applications. They should have let all of the potential Webelos apply and then made their decision. To include some but exclude other scouts from the same den from applying is about as wrong as possible.

So, I still encourage you to send an email to the district executive and tell her how slimy the troop was. If nothing else, you want to make sure that the district eyes are on this troop so they don't try to pull something like this again next year or the year after to some other scouts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WWYD? Short version of a long story out of an entire Den of Cubscout boys 2 were told not to apply to the boyscout troop 349 in Falls Church because there was no room.

They also happen to be the only boys with disabilities (one learning, one medical). We didn't find out until they graduated that every single other boy had been let in except the two with disabilities. It certainly feels like it was deliberate. It was also extremely painful for the boys to loose their friends and feel alone.

Obviously they can claim whatever they want as to why they discouraged us to apply. I think they are dirty AF. No idea why adults can be that cruel.

I experienced something similar in cub scouts. All these troops are lead by parents who feel they have free rein to display their discrimination. I have 2 kids close in age and both wanted to join cub scouts and they had a friend who was encouraging them to join. My youngest has motor issues and has a hard time writing. I talked to the mom and the den leader. I met the den leader to discuss joining and she did the most bizarre thing in that she acted like my younger dc didn't exist as he was right in front of her. She would talk about the one kid joining and I would mention I was talking about both kids. My kids were there to ask questions and she acted like my dc with disabilities wasn't even there. This kid has invisible disabilities and no behavior problems. It was so rude and ignorant I'm glad we didn't join their troop. They ignored every rule that scouting has and were taking kids camping without their parents, having young kids alone with adults they didn't know etc.

I know one bs troop tried to limit their troop to only Christian children and would grill the parents about their religious beliefs. They gave up on that eventually.

[Anonymous]

My kids also visited several bs troops after cub scouts and never saw one have size limits. I'm so sorry you went through this op. Those adults are low.

[Anonymous]

Just looking at troop 359's website, I don't believe for 2 seconds this is a boy led troop. The best troops are boy led almost to a fault. Let the kids lead and do the usual kid screw ups and they will get leadership experience they won't get anywhere else. "Involved" parents ruin the experience. Parents ruin scouting.

For those of you thinking of getting your kids involved in scouting, spend some time searching your soul and working on yourself so you don't make one part of the experience about you. Let them do it all. You are only there to make sure no one gets seriously injured or dies.

[Anonymous]

I agree to a point. DS is in a leadership position in BS. There are definitely some DC with behavioral issues. At 15, he is not prepared to handle some of these issues.

I wish some parents would stay and watch their DC behavior sometimes. When your child’s behavior consistently derails the rest of the troop’s experience, an adult needs to step in.

Not saying this is the case with OP, but there are different takes. Adult leaders should learn how to deal with this also and should get feedback from Council on how to deal with consistent behavioral issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree to a point. DS is in a leadership position in BS. There are definitely some DC with behavioral issues. At 15, he is not prepared to handle some of these issues.

I wish some parents would stay and watch their DC behavior sometimes. When your child’s behavior consistently derails the rest of the troop’s experience, an adult needs to step in.

Not saying this is the case with OP, but there are different takes. Adult leaders should learn how to deal with this also and should get feedback from Council on how to deal with consistent behavioral issues.

Handling behavioral issues is definitely where the adult ASMs step in to help with troop leadership. I do think that parents should be present at least occasionally at troop meetings. We had to send one scout home from summer camp due to these issues. It is worth noting that he doesn’t have any identified/ shared disabilities. The scouts with adhd in our troop were fine.

I am so sorry to hear about OPs experience- that is the opposite of what scouting is supposed to be.

[Anonymous]

I agree that it’s hard to give advice. Some kids can be very disruptive. Or I have seen some families with allergies make unreasonable demands on schools and other families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing about boys scouts troops is that they are run by the parents. I totally believe that the leaders lied to you because they did not want to accommodate the boys' disabilities. You can complain to BSA but don't expect any significant action. I'm sorry this happened to you. My own boys dropped out because the leaders were not handling a bullying issue. Honestly, it was a relief.

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Depending on the parents’ job, and ADA suit can ruin careers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree to a point. DS is in a leadership position in BS. There are definitely some DC with behavioral issues. At 15, he is not prepared to handle some of these issues.

I wish some parents would stay and watch their DC behavior sometimes. When your child’s behavior consistently derails the rest of the troop’s experience, an adult needs to step in.

Not saying this is the case with OP, but there are different takes. Adult leaders should learn how to deal with this also and should get feedback from Council on how to deal with consistent behavioral issues.

Handling behavioral issues is definitely where the adult ASMs step in to help with troop leadership. I do think that parents should be present at least occasionally at troop meetings. We had to send one scout home from summer camp due to these issues. It is worth noting that he doesn’t have any identified/ shared disabilities. The scouts with adhd in our troop were fine.

I am so sorry to hear about OPs experience- that is the opposite of what scouting is supposed to be.

No, the adults are not professionals in the area of child development and yes they are just parents who want to have a meeting without the stress of dealing with a kids out of control behavior bc it’s the end of the day and the kid is tired and meds have worn off. Parents want a break from their kids so no interest in sticking around or engaging with other kids.

So yes I believe what the OP is saying could be true about the situation and I see the common “blame other parents for. it understanding how to perfectly deal with their child’s needs even thought they themselves struggle as do teachers and others” It’s magical thinking.

Unfortunately this is the age when many parents are still in that in between stage - in between believing that their child really has a need and no it’s just normal childhood stuff and it will work it out. They have totally unrealistic expectations of other adults and their own child.

And for anyone who wants to complain and huff and puff about unfairness - both boy scouts and girl scouts are always looking for adult leaders. Here is your chance to be the better person and be the perfect leader who can deal with everything. So go ahead sign up and show other leaders how to do it.

[Anonymous]

You had no inkling before this that there was an issue and the boy wasn't well liked? These obviously weren't his friends.

[Anonymous]

I would absolutely escalate this to the council office as well as national.

[Anonymous]

I have never heard of a Troop with size restrictions. There might be sensitivity in where you recruit from, like one MS based Troop doesn’t openly invite kids from a different MS and type of thing but I have never heard of size limits. I know that our Pack does not advertise at neighboring ES because they have their own Packs. We accept kids from those schools in our Pack if they come to us but we don’t recruit from their school. The Troops that are smaller, and like it that way, do less recruiting.

It hurts and it sucks but, in the long run, this was not the Troop you wanted to be in. There are lots of welcoming Troops in the area. It sounds like you joined a different Troop, hopefully it works out for you. I know a few kids who have joined a Troop and then moved to a different one looking for a better fit. Each Pack/Troop has its own vibe because of the kids in it and the Parents who are volunteering.

All BSA units are parent run and there is limited training regarding kids with disabilities. The only sustained block of training that all adult volunteers have to take is the Youth Protection Training. I was the membership chair for my Pack and took a bunch of extra training so that I could better understand the program and explain things to Parents but not every volunteer does that. And the disability training was maybe 30 minutes.

For the parent who had 2 kids, were you talking to the Den Leader for the older child? There is a Den for each grade level. It is possible that the Den Leader was focused on the child who would be in her/his Den. Adventures are different for each group and are scheduled differently by each Den. Having the younger child meet with the same Den Leader as the older kid is not going to answer much for the younger child. And Packs do not mix up the grades because there is a progression. Kids Bridge over in 5th grade (Webelos/Arrow of Light) so you cannot have a third grader in Webelos/AOL in fifth grade because they have an older sibling. That said, it is strange that the Den Leader wouldn’t have told you that or explained that your younger child needed to attend a meeting with the Den for their age group.

I know a good number of kids with ADHD and one kid with ASD in our Den, it hasn’t been an issue. The parents stay at the meetings and are there to support their child. I don’t know what this will look like in a Troop, we are just bridging, because the Troops strongly encourage limited parental involvement. I am sure there are accomodations for Scouts who need more parental support, especially in 5th and 6th grade.

I will say that a good question for parents of any type of kid to ask is what type of leadership training does the Troop provide to the Scouts. There is a really good leadership series for the Scouts that kids can attend. If the Troop that you are talking to does not include Leadership Training for Scouts and National Leadership for Scouts, then they are doing it wrong. There is also a National Advanced Leadership Training but that is offered at limited locations and has far fewer slots, still, Troops should be looking out for those opportunities.

The other thing to look for is the number of Adults in the Troop or Pack that have attended Wood Badge. This is a time intensive leadership training course for Adults that focuses on building a better Scouting program and helps Adults learn to see Scouting through the eyes of the kids. It is meant to help with directing a Pack or Troop. If the Troops you are looking at don’t have any Wood Badge participants then that means they don’t have that small percentage of parents who are looking to really develop a strong program. I am not Wood Badge trained, I don’t want to spend that time, but my Pack sends 2 people a year and the Troop we are bridging into has three current Wood Badge members.