Why is this board relentlessly focused on ROI?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

NP here. Aren't most millennials/Gen Z facing downward mobility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

NP here. Aren't most millennials/Gen Z facing downward mobility?

Yes. And it sucks. But people who want their kids to be able to raise their own children as well as they raised their kids are very rational. Even if missing that mark is common. And this isn’t about materialism. I’m talking about being able to give your kids the things you want to give them because you think your parents were right to make those investments in you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

New PP weighing in on this subtopic of the thread.....I'd argue that the bigger issue here is value system. If these UMC/MC friends really feel like failures because they lack $$ to live as lavishly as they did when they were kids, the real failure is that their own parents failed to teach them the right values and didn't teach them the appropriate tools to get through life as a happy human being. Bad things can happen to any of us at any time that are out of our control that may impact the ability to live an expensive lifestyle. Raising a kid who then thinks it's important to live as lavishly as they did growing up (or as other do now) is a parent fail. This ALL gets back to what the OP was trying to say at the start. Too many people are focusing purely on $$. Of COURSE $$ is important and getting a job to support yourself (and a family if you want one) is #1 - but you are not limited to STEM, Medicine, CS, Law to have a rewarding life or career. And you do NOT have to be able to afford to live in DMV, NYC, San Fran, LA markets - there are successful (and rich!) people living in far more affordable markets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

New PP weighing in on this subtopic of the thread.....I'd argue that the bigger issue here is value system. If these UMC/MC friends really feel like failures because they lack $$ to live as lavishly as they did when they were kids, the real failure is that their own parents failed to teach them the right values and didn't teach them the appropriate tools to get through life as a happy human being. Bad things can happen to any of us at any time that are out of our control that may impact the ability to live an expensive lifestyle. Raising a kid who then thinks it's important to live as lavishly as they did growing up (or as other do now) is a parent fail. This ALL gets back to what the OP was trying to say at the start. Too many people are focusing purely on $$. Of COURSE $$ is important and getting a job to support yourself (and a family if you want one) is #1 - but you are not limited to STEM, Medicine, CS, Law to have a rewarding life or career. And you do NOT have to be able to afford to live in DMV, NYC, San Fran, LA markets - there are successful (and rich!) people living in far more affordable markets.

+1

But I'd argue that there are some things that are non-negotiable; being able to afford an in-state college for your own kids, for one. Then the cost of daycare and housing in a decent (not great) school district are two tangibles that everyone on this board probably wants their own kids to be able to afford. But things like being able to send your kids to Sidwell (as the PP mentioned) or a nanny are just ridiculous to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

New PP weighing in on this subtopic of the thread.....I'd argue that the bigger issue here is value system. If these UMC/MC friends really feel like failures because they lack $$ to live as lavishly as they did when they were kids, the real failure is that their own parents failed to teach them the right values and didn't teach them the appropriate tools to get through life as a happy human being. Bad things can happen to any of us at any time that are out of our control that may impact the ability to live an expensive lifestyle. Raising a kid who then thinks it's important to live as lavishly as they did growing up (or as other do now) is a parent fail. This ALL gets back to what the OP was trying to say at the start. Too many people are focusing purely on $$. Of COURSE $$ is important and getting a job to support yourself (and a family if you want one) is #1 - but you are not limited to STEM, Medicine, CS, Law to have a rewarding life or career. And you do NOT have to be able to afford to live in DMV, NYC, San Fran, LA markets - there are successful (and rich!) people living in far more affordable markets.

You're forgetting that this is DCUM -- a forum full of new money striver transplants obsessed with securing generational wealth for their kids at all costs. The anxiety people have around here into making sure that their kids end up in the top 1% of society sickens me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s gross and a big part of what’s wrong with higher education. Entitled parents raising entitled kids with zero intellectual curiosity, just money and status obsessed.

Or maybe they just want a decent life for themselves? Judgmental much...

This. I want my kids to have the UC life. UMC isn't what it used to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

New PP weighing in on this subtopic of the thread.....I'd argue that the bigger issue here is value system. If these UMC/MC friends really feel like failures because they lack $$ to live as lavishly as they did when they were kids, the real failure is that their own parents failed to teach them the right values and didn't teach them the appropriate tools to get through life as a happy human being. Bad things can happen to any of us at any time that are out of our control that may impact the ability to live an expensive lifestyle. Raising a kid who then thinks it's important to live as lavishly as they did growing up (or as other do now) is a parent fail. This ALL gets back to what the OP was trying to say at the start. Too many people are focusing purely on $$. Of COURSE $$ is important and getting a job to support yourself (and a family if you want one) is #1 - but you are not limited to STEM, Medicine, CS, Law to have a rewarding life or career. And you do NOT have to be able to afford to live in DMV, NYC, San Fran, LA markets - there are successful (and rich!) people living in far more affordable markets.

You're forgetting that this is DCUM -- a forum full of new money striver transplants obsessed with securing generational wealth for their kids at all costs. The anxiety people have around here into making sure that their kids end up in the top 1% of society sickens me.

DP We're not living lavishly. We take the car instead of a plane for vacations, don't buy designer anything, etc. We value financial security and being able to buy/replace when necessary without worry. And that takes a decent amount of $$$

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

New PP weighing in on this subtopic of the thread.....I'd argue that the bigger issue here is value system. If these UMC/MC friends really feel like failures because they lack $$ to live as lavishly as they did when they were kids, the real failure is that their own parents failed to teach them the right values and didn't teach them the appropriate tools to get through life as a happy human being. Bad things can happen to any of us at any time that are out of our control that may impact the ability to live an expensive lifestyle. Raising a kid who then thinks it's important to live as lavishly as they did growing up (or as other do now) is a parent fail. This ALL gets back to what the OP was trying to say at the start. Too many people are focusing purely on $$. Of COURSE $$ is important and getting a job to support yourself (and a family if you want one) is #1 - but you are not limited to STEM, Medicine, CS, Law to have a rewarding life or career. And you do NOT have to be able to afford to live in DMV, NYC, San Fran, LA markets - there are successful (and rich!) people living in far more affordable markets.

You're forgetting that this is DCUM -- a forum full of new money striver transplants obsessed with securing generational wealth for their kids at all costs. The anxiety people have around here into making sure that their kids end up in the top 1% of society sickens me.

DP We're not living lavishly. We take the car instead of a plane for vacations, don't buy designer anything, etc. We value financial security and being able to buy/replace when necessary without worry. And that takes a decent amount of $$$

Yes, but a decent amount doesn't mean the tech/finance/Big Law/medicine/Ivy path that so many people here are obsessed with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“My husband and I went to college for free and we can’t understand why people who have to pay a lot for college are so concerned about value for money.”

Yeah I can tell you didn’t major in math, economics, or common sense.

Right! You sound like an ingrate OP. If others were not worrying about money-- you would not have gone for free. Someone has to fund the scholarships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With all due respect, it sounds like you and your spouse went to college and grad schools on full rides. There was no "investment." What if you had taken out loans for all of that? Would you want a way to pay them back?

+ 1
And also they were very low income to begin with. People who are MC and UMC do not want to become poorer because they paid $$$ for college and are only making $ after their education.

OP here. I realize with our HHI that we'd be considered UMC, but I'm fine with my kids having a lower quality of life than the well-off NoVA life that surrounds them (and quite frankly, at some point, disturbs me). If my kids, for example, can't afford a SFH in the DMV and have to move to, say, Richmond and "only" live in a townhouse, I'm fine with that (and I'm guessing my kids would be as well given their frugal habits and lack of materialism). I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm fine with my kids going into a lower-paying field that they love instead of going into a career that they only mildly tolerate or somewhat dislike in order to keep up with the Joneses in this area.

But maybe that's just a reflection of me seeing a lot of miserable high earners all day as a psychologist. A lot of these people were pushed into high-paying career fields by their parents and now have significant mental health issues as a result.

I think you’re wildly underestimating how hard it is to be downwardly mobile, and thus not able to give your children the quality of life you had growing up. I’ve known people who experienced it and it’s very painful for them as parents.

That's a good point, and one I wouldn't be all that privy to given that I grew up poor. But like... my kids (who are currently in high school) are just as happy taking camping vacations to the Blue Ridge Mountains as they are with much fancier vacations. They've also never asked me for expensive/trendy clothes/items (even my daughter who goes to a high school with lots of wealthy girls whose parents buy them expensive items). Their favorite activities are all relatively low-cost ones in the outdoors. We don't send them to private school and plan on limiting their college options to in-state VA schools (or any private school that gives enough merit aid to equal that cost).

I don't know. Maybe they've adopted our relatively laid-back, frugal mindset. Maybe they're just a bit more resistant to peer pressure. I do find a lot of the materialism of the DMV to be off-putting.

You’re not responding to what I am saying to you. I am saying it’s painful not to be able to give your kids what your parents could give you. You’re responding that your kids like to go camping. That’s completely, entirely missing the point.

Like you, I’m upwardly mobile. I can give my kids what I didn’t have. And please understand, by that I mean, being able to buy them out-of-season berries and math tutoring, not trips to Europe. In contrast I have downwardly mobile friends whose parents could afford tutors to help them succeed, au pairs/Nannie’s instead of bottom barrel daycares, best school districts instead of struggling ones. THAT is what I mean by it being painful to be downwardly mobile. Feeling like you aren’t doing right by your kids through the lens of your own upbringing.

OP here. I personally believe that you if move out of HCOL areas like the DMV, being able to afford stuff like math tutoring or decent school districts (note -- I'm saying decent school pyramids and not best), and acceptable daycares (not nannies -- those are for rich people) doesn't take a high paying STEM/finance/Big Law job.

And you’re still not listening to what I’m saying. It sounds like you’re sending your kids to a top-notch pyramid (since you said it’s full of rich kids). NOT BEING ABLE TO GIVE YOUR KIDS WHAT YOUR PARENTS GAVE YOU SUCKS. Whatever that is. Whether it’s a middle of the road school or Sidwell; reliable internet connection or fancy tutors. Not being able to raise your kids as well as you were raised sucks. I have friends who are fellow millennials in that situation, who grew up UMC/MC and now are MC/LMC themselves, and feel they’re letting their kids down because they are anchored by the standard of their own childhoods.

New PP weighing in on this subtopic of the thread.....I'd argue that the bigger issue here is value system. If these UMC/MC friends really feel like failures because they lack $$ to live as lavishly as they did when they were kids, the real failure is that their own parents failed to teach them the right values and didn't teach them the appropriate tools to get through life as a happy human being. Bad things can happen to any of us at any time that are out of our control that may impact the ability to live an expensive lifestyle. Raising a kid who then thinks it's important to live as lavishly as they did growing up (or as other do now) is a parent fail. This ALL gets back to what the OP was trying to say at the start. Too many people are focusing purely on $$. Of COURSE $$ is important and getting a job to support yourself (and a family if you want one) is #1 - but you are not limited to STEM, Medicine, CS, Law to have a rewarding life or career. And you do NOT have to be able to afford to live in DMV, NYC, San Fran, LA markets - there are successful (and rich!) people living in far more affordable markets.

You're forgetting that this is DCUM -- a forum full of new money striver transplants obsessed with securing generational wealth for their kids at all costs. The anxiety people have around here into making sure that their kids end up in the top 1% of society sickens me.

DP We're not living lavishly. We take the car instead of a plane for vacations, don't buy designer anything, etc. We value financial security and being able to buy/replace when necessary without worry. And that takes a decent amount of $$$

Yes, but a decent amount doesn't mean the tech/finance/Big Law/medicine/Ivy path that so many people here are obsessed with.

But it makes you $$ so you don't have to worry. What's wrong with having extra to pass down?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The obsession with STEM, with CS, with Wall Street, with Investment Banking “target schools,” with MBB consulting, with Silicon Valley, with Ivies, with T10s… I don’t get it. I was a first-gen, low-income kid at an Ivy (went for free) and double majored in psychology and philosophy. I never once did a corporate internship in college and worked at an NPO for a few years after graduating. I got a PhD in Psychology afterwards and make around ~$180k/year in private practice.

I met my husband in college (also a poor kid on a full ride), and he double majored in visual arts and English. He went to law school on a large merit scholarship and is now a GS14. Sure, our combined HHI isn’t nearly as high as many people on this board, and a lot of our friends from college who went into more lucrative fields outearn us significantly. But it’s enough to give us a nice life in NoVa and fully fund our two kids’ 529s, retirement, our mortgage, and send some money back to our parents.

So what gives? Why are so many people on this forum obsessed with ROI and making sure that their kid makes as much money as possible?

You and your husband didn't have to invest much money into college. You got a great return on investment.