Advice for help advising driven teen and “elite” college admission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your DD want? Seems more like this is your dream. I would focus on what she wants once she starts visiting colleges.

+100

"Getting into an Ivy" is never a good goal to have. Goals like "becoming a doctor," "becoming a software engineer," "being a writer," or "working to solve climate change/COVID/HIV" are all good goals to have. But aiming for the Ivies with no idea of what you want post-grad is a recipe for disaster -- and frankly, a recipe I see too many kids in this area fall into.

There are just many on DCUM obsessed with getting their child into an Ivy without any thought whatsoever as to the best fit for their child. They would probably sell their mother to get their child into any Ivy if they could. Its kind of pathetic given that there are so many great colleges that are better than the Ivies depending on the child and what he or she wants to study.

Really? I don't see that here. If anything, I see way too much praise for mediocre LACs that have "a way better undergrad experience than a place like Harvard!"

Harvard has a horrible undergrad experience. Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have Ivy professors in my family. They tell me they don’t want their kids going to an Ivy for undergrad and are pushing the SLACs. They also told me that for graduate admissions, they really like kids from SLACs because they know they were well-educated. Just a data point but I think it is interesting.

I can totally see this. I'm an Ivy grad and I'm encouraging my DC to look at SLACs. She has found several SLACs that she loves and I'm so impressed with what I see. I think she'll get a better education at a SLAC than an Ivy.

I agree, but I still think that an Ivy is better for most students than a SLACs (save for maybe Williams, Amherst, and Wellesley). College is not so much for the education that you get as much as it is for the connections you make and the internships/job opportunities you get after -- and that's much better at, say, Princeton than at Grinnell or Vassar.

Sure, you think that. But a lot of people who know the Ivies better than you — Ivy professors — disagree with you. You’ve bought the marketing entirely but don’t understand the reality.

No, I understand the reality fairly well. A Princeton degree will open up doors in corporate America that a Grinnell degree will not. Full stop.

Most people in HR or admissions will disagree with this. Full Stop.

I'm not the person to whom you replied, but it doesn't really matter what the "people in HR" say. There are huge difference between the OCR opportunities available at Princeton and the OCR opportunities at a relatively no-name midwestern school like Grinnell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your DD want? Seems more like this is your dream. I would focus on what she wants once she starts visiting colleges.

+100

"Getting into an Ivy" is never a good goal to have. Goals like "becoming a doctor," "becoming a software engineer," "being a writer," or "working to solve climate change/COVID/HIV" are all good goals to have. But aiming for the Ivies with no idea of what you want post-grad is a recipe for disaster -- and frankly, a recipe I see too many kids in this area fall into.

There are just many on DCUM obsessed with getting their child into an Ivy without any thought whatsoever as to the best fit for their child. They would probably sell their mother to get their child into any Ivy if they could. Its kind of pathetic given that there are so many great colleges that are better than the Ivies depending on the child and what he or she wants to study.

Really? I don't see that here. If anything, I see way too much praise for mediocre LACs that have "a way better undergrad experience than a place like Harvard!"

Harvard has a horrible undergrad experience. Ask me how I know.

I'm not sure I'd say it was "horrible," but I'd agree that you do get a better undergrad experience at pretty much all of its peer schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your DD want? Seems more like this is your dream. I would focus on what she wants once she starts visiting colleges.

+100

"Getting into an Ivy" is never a good goal to have. Goals like "becoming a doctor," "becoming a software engineer," "being a writer," or "working to solve climate change/COVID/HIV" are all good goals to have. But aiming for the Ivies with no idea of what you want post-grad is a recipe for disaster -- and frankly, a recipe I see too many kids in this area fall into.

There are just many on DCUM obsessed with getting their child into an Ivy without any thought whatsoever as to the best fit for their child. They would probably sell their mother to get their child into any Ivy if they could. Its kind of pathetic given that there are so many great colleges that are better than the Ivies depending on the child and what he or she wants to study.

Really? I don't see that here. If anything, I see way too much praise for mediocre LACs that have "a way better undergrad experience than a place like Harvard!"

Harvard has a horrible undergrad experience. Ask me how I know.

I'm not sure I'd say it was "horrible," but I'd agree that you do get a better undergrad experience at pretty much all of its peer schools.

Columbia is much worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your DD want? Seems more like this is your dream. I would focus on what she wants once she starts visiting colleges.

+100

"Getting into an Ivy" is never a good goal to have. Goals like "becoming a doctor," "becoming a software engineer," "being a writer," or "working to solve climate change/COVID/HIV" are all good goals to have. But aiming for the Ivies with no idea of what you want post-grad is a recipe for disaster -- and frankly, a recipe I see too many kids in this area fall into.

There are just many on DCUM obsessed with getting their child into an Ivy without any thought whatsoever as to the best fit for their child. They would probably sell their mother to get their child into any Ivy if they could. Its kind of pathetic given that there are so many great colleges that are better than the Ivies depending on the child and what he or she wants to study.

Really? I don't see that here. If anything, I see way too much praise for mediocre LACs that have "a way better undergrad experience than a place like Harvard!"

Uh, it's pretty hard to miss

See the comment above you:

"They also told me that for graduate admissions, they really like kids from SLACs because they know they were well-educated."

Hahaha. As if a Grinnell degree opens the same doors as one from HYPS.

For graduate school admissions at the Ivies? Grinnell definitely opens the same doors. Possibly more.

If you do well at HYPS undergrad, you don't even have to go to grad school. The kids I know at the top of their class from HYPS are not even going to grad school for the most part. They're walking straight into six figure jobs in consulting, investment banking, private equity, and product management. I don't see that happening at Grinnell (although it's possible a school like Williams or Amherst might be more conducive to that).

Plus, I'll have to admit that it's a little odd when SLAC boosters promote their high admissions rates into PhD programs. PhDs almost always have a negative ROI (even the ones in STEM), and many PhD students are extremely depressed as they realize that all their hard work was mainly for no financial reward.

The PhDs are much, much happier than the miserable souls working in IB or PE. Dear God that’s an unhappy bunch of drug users.

Both groups are miserable, but at least the IB/PE folks are being paid to be unhappy.

This x million. And so many doors are open to you through PE/IB.

+100

Two miserable years at GS is worth it for the lucrative and much more interesting job opps that come after.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have Ivy professors in my family. They tell me they don’t want their kids going to an Ivy for undergrad and are pushing the SLACs. They also told me that for graduate admissions, they really like kids from SLACs because they know they were well-educated. Just a data point but I think it is interesting.

I can totally see this. I'm an Ivy grad and I'm encouraging my DC to look at SLACs. She has found several SLACs that she loves and I'm so impressed with what I see. I think she'll get a better education at a SLAC than an Ivy.

I agree, but I still think that an Ivy is better for most students than a SLACs (save for maybe Williams, Amherst, and Wellesley). College is not so much for the education that you get as much as it is for the connections you make and the internships/job opportunities you get after -- and that's much better at, say, Princeton than at Grinnell or Vassar.

Sure, you think that. But a lot of people who know the Ivies better than you — Ivy professors — disagree with you. You’ve bought the marketing entirely but don’t understand the reality.

No, I understand the reality fairly well. A Princeton degree will open up doors in corporate America that a Grinnell degree will not. Full stop.

Most people in HR or admissions will disagree with this. Full Stop.

I'm not the person to whom you replied, but it doesn't really matter what the "people in HR" say. There are huge difference between the OCR opportunities available at Princeton and the OCR opportunities at a relatively no-name midwestern school like Grinnell.

+100

This is so obvious it doesn’t even bear explanation. Also this is about Grinnell specifically — no consulting firms or investment banks recruit from there, and I read online from a former student that there are only two companies recruiting on campus since the school is so focused on PhD admissions. Yuck. I’d much rather have my kid go to Princeton and get a high-paying job after than go into a PhD program (almost always a waste of time).

[Anonymous]

Happy thanksgiving everyone and even the evil racist person who assumed the OP was Asian bc the poster didn’t have the sentence structure when posting in the early hours. Anyway, I think many others after the initial trolls gave good advice.

A unique path is important. I also had my first child who was hardworking and talented but didn’t have the right guidance. He got into UofV and did well, but his peer from HS got into UPenn but with lesser achievements. the disadvantage my son has compared to his friend for internships at the top tier opportunities are very apparent.

For my second, he is sophomore I am definitely looking to get advisor. While the points raised here are valid, if your child really is driven, it’s worth it for me to give that child best opportunity. Families with generational experience/networks (aka legacy) will not show their hidden weapons to help their kids. I know it’s there.

We prefer a small firm with real world work experience from its advisors. Harder to find than thought. Most are run of mill firms.

I have heard about Marks Education locally based in Bethesda. It has good reputation but pretty large group of students. Www.Markseducation.com

Another friend has their child with In Veritas Education. [e-mail]
Only had one call with their founder but it seems unique with their advisors all working in diverse “top tier fields” as leaders.

Last I’m interviewing is Command education. https://www.commandeducation.com
Also pretty good reputation. This was recommended by a friend from NYC. I haven’t talked prices with this one but my friend dropped hints it was in 6 figures for a program, which is astounding but I guess the people with money in NYc and suburbs can pay and aren’t taking chances.

Good luck. I understand the stress but things will work themselves out.

[Anonymous]

Kelly Fraser in Bethesda is the absolute best. I have multiple kids at Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't let the board get you down, I have multiple kids at Ivies and we are not minorities, athletes, or legacy.

Work hard and apply wisely with your ED. Do some unique ECs.

Like what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have Ivy professors in my family. They tell me they don’t want their kids going to an Ivy for undergrad and are pushing the SLACs. They also told me that for graduate admissions, they really like kids from SLACs because they know they were well-educated. Just a data point but I think it is interesting.

I can totally see this. I'm an Ivy grad and I'm encouraging my DC to look at SLACs. She has found several SLACs that she loves and I'm so impressed with what I see. I think she'll get a better education at a SLAC than an Ivy.

I agree, but I still think that an Ivy is better for most students than a SLACs (save for maybe Williams, Amherst, and Wellesley). College is not so much for the education that you get as much as it is for the connections you make and the internships/job opportunities you get after -- and that's much better at, say, Princeton than at Grinnell or Vassar.

Sure, you think that. But a lot of people who know the Ivies better than you — Ivy professors — disagree with you. You’ve bought the marketing entirely but don’t understand the reality.

No, I understand the reality fairly well. A Princeton degree will open up doors in corporate America that a Grinnell degree will not. Full stop.

Most people in HR or admissions will disagree with this. Full Stop.

I'm not the person to whom you replied, but it doesn't really matter what the "people in HR" say. There are huge difference between the OCR opportunities available at Princeton and the OCR opportunities at a relatively no-name midwestern school like Grinnell.

+100

This is so obvious it doesn’t even bear explanation. Also this is about Grinnell specifically — no consulting firms or investment banks recruit from there, and I read online from a former student that there are only two companies recruiting on campus since the school is so focused on PhD admissions. Yuck. I’d much rather have my kid go to Princeton and get a high-paying job after than go into a PhD program (almost always a waste of time).

This.

-A PhD holder in STEM who regrets spending six years of my life in an exercise that returned no monetary gains and tons of stress

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have Ivy professors in my family. They tell me they don’t want their kids going to an Ivy for undergrad and are pushing the SLACs. They also told me that for graduate admissions, they really like kids from SLACs because they know they were well-educated. Just a data point but I think it is interesting.

I can totally see this. I'm an Ivy grad and I'm encouraging my DC to look at SLACs. She has found several SLACs that she loves and I'm so impressed with what I see. I think she'll get a better education at a SLAC than an Ivy.

I agree, but I still think that an Ivy is better for most students than a SLACs (save for maybe Williams, Amherst, and Wellesley). College is not so much for the education that you get as much as it is for the connections you make and the internships/job opportunities you get after -- and that's much better at, say, Princeton than at Grinnell or Vassar.

Sure, you think that. But a lot of people who know the Ivies better than you — Ivy professors — disagree with you. You’ve bought the marketing entirely but don’t understand the reality.

No, I understand the reality fairly well. A Princeton degree will open up doors in corporate America that a Grinnell degree will not. Full stop.

Says the person who claims that 'College is not so much for the education'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Happy thanksgiving everyone and even the evil racist person who assumed the OP was Asian bc the poster didn’t have the sentence structure when posting in the early hours. Anyway, I think many others after the initial trolls gave good advice.

A unique path is important. I also had my first child who was hardworking and talented but didn’t have the right guidance. He got into UofV and did well, but his peer from HS got into UPenn but with lesser achievements. the disadvantage my son has compared to his friend for internships at the top tier opportunities are very apparent.

For my second, he is sophomore I am definitely looking to get advisor. While the points raised here are valid, if your child really is driven, it’s worth it for me to give that child best opportunity. Families with generational experience/networks (aka legacy) will not show their hidden weapons to help their kids. I know it’s there.

We prefer a small firm with real world work experience from its advisors. Harder to find than thought. Most are run of mill firms.

I have heard about Marks Education locally based in Bethesda. It has good reputation but pretty large group of students. Www.Markseducation.com

Another friend has their child with In Veritas Education. [e-mail]
Only had one call with their founder but it seems unique with their advisors all working in diverse “top tier fields” as leaders.

Last I’m interviewing is Command education. https://www.commandeducation.com
Also pretty good reputation. This was recommended by a friend from NYC. I haven’t talked prices with this one but my friend dropped hints it was in 6 figures for a program, which is astounding but I guess the people with money in NYc and suburbs can pay and aren’t taking chances.

Good luck. I understand the stress but things will work themselves out.

So you will spend 6 figures to increase your kid’s chance at an Ivy. It goes from what 5% to 7%? How much pressure is that on your kid that you spent that much money to increase their chances a tiny bit? These counselor’a don’t have any magic (if they do, they are likely doing something illegal). You can find a good one who can point your kid in the right direction for much less money.

Am I wrong? I’d love to hear from someone who used a 6 figure counselor and what they provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does your DD want? Seems more like this is your dream. I would focus on what she wants once she starts visiting colleges.

+100

"Getting into an Ivy" is never a good goal to have. Goals like "becoming a doctor," "becoming a software engineer," "being a writer," or "working to solve climate change/COVID/HIV" are all good goals to have. But aiming for the Ivies with no idea of what you want post-grad is a recipe for disaster -- and frankly, a recipe I see too many kids in this area fall into.

There are just many on DCUM obsessed with getting their child into an Ivy without any thought whatsoever as to the best fit for their child. They would probably sell their mother to get their child into any Ivy if they could. Its kind of pathetic given that there are so many great colleges that are better than the Ivies depending on the child and what he or she wants to study.

Really? I don't see that here. If anything, I see way too much praise for mediocre LACs that have "a way better undergrad experience than a place like Harvard!"

Harvard has a horrible undergrad experience. Ask me how I know.

I'm not sure I'd say it was "horrible," but I'd agree that you do get a better undergrad experience at pretty much all of its peer schools.

Columbia is much worse.

Yeah, that's one I'll give you. Though to be honest I always considered Columbia more of a peer of Penn and Cornell than Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have Ivy professors in my family. They tell me they don’t want their kids going to an Ivy for undergrad and are pushing the SLACs. They also told me that for graduate admissions, they really like kids from SLACs because they know they were well-educated. Just a data point but I think it is interesting.

I can totally see this. I'm an Ivy grad and I'm encouraging my DC to look at SLACs. She has found several SLACs that she loves and I'm so impressed with what I see. I think she'll get a better education at a SLAC than an Ivy.

I agree, but I still think that an Ivy is better for most students than a SLACs (save for maybe Williams, Amherst, and Wellesley). College is not so much for the education that you get as much as it is for the connections you make and the internships/job opportunities you get after -- and that's much better at, say, Princeton than at Grinnell or Vassar.

Sure, you think that. But a lot of people who know the Ivies better than you — Ivy professors — disagree with you. You’ve bought the marketing entirely but don’t understand the reality.

No, I understand the reality fairly well. A Princeton degree will open up doors in corporate America that a Grinnell degree will not. Full stop.

Most people in HR or admissions will disagree with this. Full Stop.

I'm not the person to whom you replied, but it doesn't really matter what the "people in HR" say. There are huge difference between the OCR opportunities available at Princeton and the OCR opportunities at a relatively no-name midwestern school like Grinnell.

What is OCR?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I have Ivy professors in my family. They tell me they don’t want their kids going to an Ivy for undergrad and are pushing the SLACs. They also told me that for graduate admissions, they really like kids from SLACs because they know they were well-educated. Just a data point but I think it is interesting.

I can totally see this. I'm an Ivy grad and I'm encouraging my DC to look at SLACs. She has found several SLACs that she loves and I'm so impressed with what I see. I think she'll get a better education at a SLAC than an Ivy.

I agree, but I still think that an Ivy is better for most students than a SLACs (save for maybe Williams, Amherst, and Wellesley). College is not so much for the education that you get as much as it is for the connections you make and the internships/job opportunities you get after -- and that's much better at, say, Princeton than at Grinnell or Vassar.

Sure, you think that. But a lot of people who know the Ivies better than you — Ivy professors — disagree with you. You’ve bought the marketing entirely but don’t understand the reality.

No, I understand the reality fairly well. A Princeton degree will open up doors in corporate America that a Grinnell degree will not. Full stop.

Most people in HR or admissions will disagree with this. Full Stop.

I'm not the person to whom you replied, but it doesn't really matter what the "people in HR" say. There are huge difference between the OCR opportunities available at Princeton and the OCR opportunities at a relatively no-name midwestern school like Grinnell.

What is OCR?

OCR stands for "on-campus recruiting" -- high profile companies visit target schools to hire entry-level employees. It's generally the only way to break into certain industries: finance and consulting, namely.