Athletic Ivy

[Anonymous]

Ah the classic response when presented with the truth - some personal attack.

Athletic recruits are admitted in spite of their academics. I feel no need to make parents of athletes feel better about the stories they tell themselves in a desperate attempt to believe that their kid didn’t get some advantage. People have no problem criticizing URMs for their supposed academic shortcomings but athletes (largely rich and white) should get a pass?

Posts like these are false and inflammatory. All Ivy schools must comply with AI standards, so while there may be students whose academic qualifications are a standard deviation below the stats of the average admitted student, that just means another athlete on the same team has to be a level above. I believe my kids had an advantage by being recruited athletes at Ivy schools, but that advantage was limited to pulling them out of a pile of other qualified students - it did not get them in the pile in the first place! They got there by being valedictorian/NMSF or commended/SATs above 2300, taking rigorous classes, being on school teams and clubs, doing volunteer service . . . The same way other qualified students put their names in that pile of qualified applications.

[Anonymous]

This article shows percent international by sport. It’s quite shocking, tennis being the lead.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/demographics/2019RES_ISATrendsDivSprt.pdf

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I attended an Ivy (though not Harvard) and counted plenty of athletes among my friends. I assure you that the overwhelming majority of them were phenomenal students in addition to being talented athletes. Outside of luring some top football and basketball recruits, top colleges do not generally have to lower their admission standards much, if at all, to bring in athletes.

I went to an Ivy and wasn’t a jock sniffer and I can say that they do lower admissions standards quite substantially for athletes in all sports.

Jock sniffer, eh? Thanks for proving that even an education cannot instill class in some people.

Oh I’m sorry does “people who irrationally worship and make excuses for athletes” make you feel better?

In fact it is the hatred of college athletes and constant efforts to represent them as academically unqualified that is irrational.

+1

NP. I think there is one athlete-hater poster on DCUM who is obsessed beyond rationality with athletes. Their posts are exceptionally nasty and also they never listen to reason or evidence. It is rather sad.

Read the Harvard study. Oh wait every time that’s mentioned you get offended.

I’m not offended. I’ve read it and unlike you, I have the education to understand it. You are the one who seems to not understand reason or evidence, however. I sort of love how you keep talking about a study you clearly can’t understand. It’s like watching a toddler have a temper tantrum.

[Anonymous]

Want a school filled with robotics team kids? Go to Caltech. That's the beauty of the marketplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Want a school filled with robotics team kids? Go to Caltech. That's the beauty of the marketplace.

Plenty of these athletic recruits and lots of other admits would get eaten alive at Caltech, MIT, etc. Unless you are a champion brainiac you will be crushed.

[Anonymous]

What is wrong with athletics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with athletics?

Athletics is fine. Is it more important than brain power and academic ability?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I attended an Ivy (though not Harvard) and counted plenty of athletes among my friends. I assure you that the overwhelming majority of them were phenomenal students in addition to being talented athletes. Outside of luring some top football and basketball recruits, top colleges do not generally have to lower their admission standards much, if at all, to bring in athletes.

I went to an Ivy and wasn’t a jock sniffer and I can say that they do lower admissions standards quite substantially for athletes in all sports.

Jock sniffer, eh? Thanks for proving that even an education cannot instill class in some people.

Oh I’m sorry does “people who irrationally worship and make excuses for athletes” make you feel better?

In fact it is the hatred of college athletes and constant efforts to represent them as academically unqualified that is irrational.

+1

NP. I think there is one athlete-hater poster on DCUM who is obsessed beyond rationality with athletes. Their posts are exceptionally nasty and also they never listen to reason or evidence. It is rather sad.

Read the Harvard study. Oh wait every time that’s mentioned you get offended.

I’m not offended. I’ve read it and unlike you, I have the education to understand it. You are the one who seems to not understand reason or evidence, however. I sort of love how you keep talking about a study you clearly can’t understand. It’s like watching a toddler have a temper tantrum.

So explain this:

“An athlete who has an 86% probability of admission—the average rate among athletes—would have only a 0.1% chance of admission absent the athlete tip.“

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ah the classic response when presented with the truth - some personal attack.

Athletic recruits are admitted in spite of their academics. I feel no need to make parents of athletes feel better about the stories they tell themselves in a desperate attempt to believe that their kid didn’t get some advantage. People have no problem criticizing URMs for their supposed academic shortcomings but athletes (largely rich and white) should get a pass?

Posts like these are false and inflammatory. All Ivy schools must comply with AI standards, so while there may be students whose academic qualifications are a standard deviation below the stats of the average admitted student, that just means another athlete on the same team has to be a level above. I believe my kids had an advantage by being recruited athletes at Ivy schools, but that advantage was limited to pulling them out of a pile of other qualified students - it did not get them in the pile in the first place! They got there by being valedictorian/NMSF or commended/SATs above 2300, taking rigorous classes, being on school teams and clubs, doing volunteer service . . . The same way other qualified students put their names in that pile of qualified applications.

Of course you do. And that’s the problem - you can’t even admit your good fortune. That’s the problem - not athletic recruiting per se - but the stubborn refusal of those who benefit from it to admit the extent to which they benefitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data doesn’t show they are unqualified. Try again.

“The Academic Index (AI) is used by Ivy League schools to ensure that athletes are not admitted with significantly lower academic qualifications than the general student population. The index is based on GPA, SAT/ACT tests scores, and SAT Subject test scores. All athletes must have at least a 176 to play at any of the “Ancient Eight” schools… no team at an Ivy League school may have an average AI of more than one standard deviation below the average AI of all students at the college.“

This is actually funny.  There are the rules and there are ways to work around the rules.  The schools have to put out something but no one knows if the rules are actually being followed.

It reminds me of my employer's company policy that I can not hire or supervise anyone related to me  due to favoritism or nepotism; however, it is completely legit for me to hire my neighbor or their kids even though they might not qualified for the job but since I have the final say in the hiring process, it is completely legal. 

You could have neighbors from hell you hate so you would not be hiring them even if the kids were qualified? So you have absolutely no morals if you look for ways around the company policy and go about your favoritism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Want a school filled with robotics team kids? Go to Caltech. That's the beauty of the marketplace.

Plenty of these athletic recruits and lots of other admits would get eaten alive at Caltech, MIT, etc. Unless you are a champion brainiac you will be crushed.

You’ve made my point. That’s the beauty of the marketplace. They can choose/pay for a school that is a good fit academically and athletically. If Harvard is a better fit than Caltech, that’s great. Let the robotics team kid choose/pay for Caltech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Believe it or not, some kids can be athletes, artists, athletes, musicians AND strong students.

Please don't put the athletic admits into a box of being dumb jocks. At places like IVYs and NESCAC, these are generally incredibly multi-talented kids. That is why they are accepted.

They can be but in almost all cases they are not

Only for high profile sports like football and basketball. Not so much for lower profile sports like tennis or swimming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Want a school filled with robotics team kids? Go to Caltech. That's the beauty of the marketplace.

Plenty of these athletic recruits and lots of other admits would get eaten alive at Caltech, MIT, etc. Unless you are a champion brainiac you will be crushed.

That's not necessarily true. This past year at NCAA Div 3 my student raced a lot of very fast swimmers from MIT. It doesn't matter what a great athlete you are, you will not be admitted (nor survive) at a school like Caltech or MIT unless you are a very strong student. It's also one reason, you don't see the kids of presidents attending MIT.

[Anonymous]

Can someone pls post the Harvard study?

NP here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Want a school filled with robotics team kids? Go to Caltech. That's the beauty of the marketplace.

Plenty of these athletic recruits and lots of other admits would get eaten alive at Caltech, MIT, etc. Unless you are a champion brainiac you will be crushed.

You’ve made my point. That’s the beauty of the marketplace. They can choose/pay for a school that is a good fit academically and athletically. If Harvard is a better fit than Caltech, that’s great. Let the robotics team kid choose/pay for Caltech.

And you made my point. Some of those Harvard students are not going to cut it when brain power counts.