All-Star Relays -- Why Was the NVSLs Premier Event Such a Disaster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was at the meet and applaud Hamlet for stepping up to host, especially as the last ASR meet was in 2019. I do not belong to Hamlet.

My observations:

The volunteer marshals in the “one event viewing” bleacher area did their best trying to keep traffic moving in one direction and having people move all the way down to fill in as best as possible. Parents didn’t make their lives easy by not listening, arguing, not moving down, and trying to enter via the exit. All of this was clearly communicated as well by the marshals.

The one perm bleacher area was once again taken by Division 1 teams (namely Chesterbrook, Tuckahoe and Overlee), and there were more swimmers than parents in the bleachers. If seating was an issue, maybe OP can ask the division 1 teams to back off in future years?

Yes, it was unfortunate it rained the night prior and there was mud. The volunteers did put down a walkway near the bleachers and Coach area, the mud just overpowered it after awhile.

Someone commented on the team rep area only allowing two team reps, and that is normal for NVSL meets as most pools have 1-2 reps. If your pool chose to have more than two, well then you will need to figure that out and share time instead of arguing.

Finally, I heard the livestream was great. Great camera angles and just a short delay to the actual meet.

My spouse is an official who was very involved and agrees.

Perhaps all bleachers will be one event viewing at future meets.

Agree with this and I am pretty sure this will be the case for individual All Stars. There is no reason for anyone to sit in the bleachers for 4 hours. Also no reason for a team rep area. The only people who used it were the top 3 D1 team reps.

My only complaint last night was with the flow of the single even viewing area could have been better thought. People should not have even been let into the pool area unless they were there to watch the single even or volunteer. I saw a group of 4 swimmers just sitting on the ground near the single viewing area taking up space, no reason for that.

I commend Hamlet for stepping up to host. This is not an easy met to host and like others have said NO pools want to host this event. It is a ton of work and pisses off people all around. As I walked to my car last nigh I though of how pissed the neighbors must be.

Also go easy on Orange Hunt who is hosting All Stars. Their pool and surrounding area is far from an ideal setup. But guess what, right before the start of the season NVSL didn't have a pool to host and the meet was going to be cancelled.

If you think your pool can do a better job then step on up!! You know what they say "Don't like how things are run. We are always looking for volunteers."

Everyone seems mystified why Division 1 swimmers and parents are watching the whole meet. It is because it is designed as a team meet. There was a team winner last night. The ASR champion will always come from Division 1, as those are the teams who send the most relays and who score the most points. If you want to solve this problem, it is easy enough to not score by team and to simply give awards to relay teams. No team wins Individual All-Stars, maybe the event would be better if it were not a team competition.

If it is going to be a team event though, I completely agree that they should get rid of the team rep area and let more swimmers be near the pool cheering on their friends. It is prime real estate and it is being either left empty or being occupied by teams who have only a handful of relays swimming. There are other ways to notify reps of DQs.

I am not mystified by it. I understand that D1 teams also have swimmers in every single relay and that one of the 3 will win. Still it is an event for ALL of NVSL not just the D1 teams, there are hundreds of relay teams and ALL parents deserve to get a good view to watch their kids swim whether they are in D1 or D17. And one team will win whether or not their team is sucking up all the bleacher seating or not. Watch the live stream.

[Anonymous]

All the all star meets always suck. There is always little seating. None of this is new. The kids always have to walk far because no pools have room in the regular pool areas for all the teams that come to All Stars. Again - this is not new.

No one wanted to host either all star meet this year. I say a huge thank you to the Hamlet for stepping up.

Nvsl is mostly run by volunteers, so not sure what sort of extra support you expect them to provide. Why don’t you volunteer your time to help them run the All Star Relay meet next year rather than complaining on this site?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lol! So only the teans with a chance of winning the meet should be allowed to occupy the prime real estate?

Not at all. But there is one set of permanent bleachers. Everyone has the same opportunity to line up for those. There are very precise rules about it. Everyone seems surprised and pissed that the only teams willing to suffer through that are the D1 teams.

You can get rid of permanent bleachers or you can get rid of team competition.

I don't care. Not in D1 and we ain't winning any ASR trophies anytime soon. But you can't cry foul when folks play by the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was there. Div 2 team with a lot of relays participating. I had 3 kids swimming in 6 events. I applaud Hamlet for stepping up. All of their volunteers did the best they could, especially the marshals running the bleachers. The drop-off area was great. It was brutally hot, but there was plenty of space for teams to hang out. The clerk of course was at least in the shade.

If parents would follow the rules and get out when their kids aren't swimming, it would have made everything better. The bleachers were tight but there was enough room for each event if people would move. Maybe they give out tickets for each event and you need one to be in the spectator area. Otherwise, you hang out outside the pool.

What about using the Saint James? Or another indoor facility? Or just get rid of parents all together. Parents just make everything worse. If you want to see the meet, you volunteer. Otherwise, stay home and watch the livestream. I heard it was good.

None would be big enough. I think splitting the event amongst pools would be the smart move. Two day event. Two or three pools for the different age groups day one and day two the mixed age.

I think the split makes sense. But maybe instead of multiple venues, which would be hard on the league, it is a one day event with three sessions: 12& unders are in the morning. There is a mixed age session after that. And the third session is 13 and ups. That way the mixed age can overlap. One big, long day, but much more manageable.

But I think there should also be more money available to pools to entice them to host. There were 396 relay teams last night. If each team entry were $20, you'd have almost $7000. $5000 to the host pool on top of concessions might cause some more pools to step up. With the remaining $2000, you rent bleachers, port-a-lets, etc.

All of the miscues yesterday were foreseeable, and it sounds like a bigger budget could have gone a long way to solving some of these issues.

Good luck finding enough qualified volunteers if you split the meet. it is hard enough getting people to volunteer for this meet.

Even one event has 18 teams...18x4= 72 swimmers. Just require each team to send 2 volunteers, and you've got 36 volunteers which is more than enough.

you have no clue how many volunteers it takes to run a meet.

A regular Saturday meet takes 47 volunteers and that is just to run the actual meet- not counting stuff at all star events like concessions, awards, parking attendants...

I am the volunteer coordinator for our team, and coordinated the volunteers for several divisionals.

18 timers
1 chief timer
4 stroke and turn
4 marshalls
1 referee
1 starter
2 clerk of course
4 data/table- place recorder, verify, awards
1 announcer

36 volunteers. Remember we are only talking here about 2 volunteers from each relay entry...but if they did this split they would have twice as many from even the smallest section (mixed age). One reason it is so hard to find volunteers for all stars right now is that you have to be there throughout the whole long ordeal....not just the one portion your kid is in.

The home pool would have to handle parking lot and concessions but they would get the money from that.

guess you aren't going to have RTO for your relay event.... yes some can double as timers.
also need more than 2 clerk of course for relay even we typically have 4 for A meets and an assistant head timer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! So only the teans with a chance of winning the meet should be allowed to occupy the prime real estate?

Not at all. But there is one set of permanent bleachers. Everyone has the same opportunity to line up for those. There are very precise rules about it. Everyone seems surprised and pissed that the only teams willing to suffer through that are the D1 teams.

You can get rid of permanent bleachers or you can get rid of team competition.

I don't care. Not in D1 and we ain't winning any ASR trophies anytime soon. But you can't cry foul when folks play by the rules.

I vote for this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol! So only the teans with a chance of winning the meet should be allowed to occupy the prime real estate?

Not at all. But there is one set of permanent bleachers. Everyone has the same opportunity to line up for those. There are very precise rules about it. Everyone seems surprised and pissed that the only teams willing to suffer through that are the D1 teams.

You can get rid of permanent bleachers or you can get rid of team competition.

I don't care. Not in D1 and we ain't winning any ASR trophies anytime soon. But you can't cry foul when folks play by the rules.

I vote for this!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was there. Div 2 team with a lot of relays participating. I had 3 kids swimming in 6 events. I applaud Hamlet for stepping up. All of their volunteers did the best they could, especially the marshals running the bleachers. The drop-off area was great. It was brutally hot, but there was plenty of space for teams to hang out. The clerk of course was at least in the shade.

If parents would follow the rules and get out when their kids aren't swimming, it would have made everything better. The bleachers were tight but there was enough room for each event if people would move. Maybe they give out tickets for each event and you need one to be in the spectator area. Otherwise, you hang out outside the pool.

What about using the Saint James? Or another indoor facility? Or just get rid of parents all together. Parents just make everything worse. If you want to see the meet, you volunteer. Otherwise, stay home and watch the livestream. I heard it was good.

None would be big enough. I think splitting the event amongst pools would be the smart move. Two day event. Two or three pools for the different age groups day one and day two the mixed age.

I think the split makes sense. But maybe instead of multiple venues, which would be hard on the league, it is a one day event with three sessions: 12& unders are in the morning. There is a mixed age session after that. And the third session is 13 and ups. That way the mixed age can overlap. One big, long day, but much more manageable.

But I think there should also be more money available to pools to entice them to host. There were 396 relay teams last night. If each team entry were $20, you'd have almost $7000. $5000 to the host pool on top of concessions might cause some more pools to step up. With the remaining $2000, you rent bleachers, port-a-lets, etc.

All of the miscues yesterday were foreseeable, and it sounds like a bigger budget could have gone a long way to solving some of these issues.

Good luck finding enough qualified volunteers if you split the meet. it is hard enough getting people to volunteer for this meet.

Even one event has 18 teams...18x4= 72 swimmers. Just require each team to send 2 volunteers, and you've got 36 volunteers which is more than enough.

you have no clue how many volunteers it takes to run a meet.

A regular Saturday meet takes 47 volunteers and that is just to run the actual meet- not counting stuff at all star events like concessions, awards, parking attendants...

I am the volunteer coordinator for our team, and coordinated the volunteers for several divisionals.

18 timers
1 chief timer
4 stroke and turn
4 marshalls
1 referee
1 starter
2 clerk of course
4 data/table- place recorder, verify, awards
1 announcer

36 volunteers. Remember we are only talking here about 2 volunteers from each relay entry...but if they did this split they would have twice as many from even the smallest section (mixed age). One reason it is so hard to find volunteers for all stars right now is that you have to be there throughout the whole long ordeal....not just the one portion your kid is in.

The home pool would have to handle parking lot and concessions but they would get the money from that.

just counted we had 70 volunteers for Divisional Relays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.


To quote Jon Lovitz "Well then, this would be more wouldn't it?"

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

Honestly if All Star Relays is just a big D1 pissing match we should just make them pay. they certainly have the money.

[Anonymous]

If it’s about $, make spectators pay $5 each.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

Honestly if All Star Relays is just a big D1 pissing match we should just make them pay. they certainly have the money.

They do in a way. Each division sends volunteers in proportion to the number of teams they send. D1 has to provide a large staff for the meet. It's only fair, but if there is monetary contribution, it should follow the same model. D1 will pay more, other divisions less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was there. Div 2 team with a lot of relays participating. I had 3 kids swimming in 6 events. I applaud Hamlet for stepping up. All of their volunteers did the best they could, especially the marshals running the bleachers. The drop-off area was great. It was brutally hot, but there was plenty of space for teams to hang out. The clerk of course was at least in the shade.

If parents would follow the rules and get out when their kids aren't swimming, it would have made everything better. The bleachers were tight but there was enough room for each event if people would move. Maybe they give out tickets for each event and you need one to be in the spectator area. Otherwise, you hang out outside the pool.

What about using the Saint James? Or another indoor facility? Or just get rid of parents all together. Parents just make everything worse. If you want to see the meet, you volunteer. Otherwise, stay home and watch the livestream. I heard it was good.

None would be big enough. I think splitting the event amongst pools would be the smart move. Two day event. Two or three pools for the different age groups day one and day two the mixed age.

I think the split makes sense. But maybe instead of multiple venues, which would be hard on the league, it is a one day event with three sessions: 12& unders are in the morning. There is a mixed age session after that. And the third session is 13 and ups. That way the mixed age can overlap. One big, long day, but much more manageable.

But I think there should also be more money available to pools to entice them to host. There were 396 relay teams last night. If each team entry were $20, you'd have almost $7000. $5000 to the host pool on top of concessions might cause some more pools to step up. With the remaining $2000, you rent bleachers, port-a-lets, etc.

All of the miscues yesterday were foreseeable, and it sounds like a bigger budget could have gone a long way to solving some of these issues.

Good luck finding enough qualified volunteers if you split the meet. it is hard enough getting people to volunteer for this meet.

Even one event has 18 teams...18x4= 72 swimmers. Just require each team to send 2 volunteers, and you've got 36 volunteers which is more than enough.

you have no clue how many volunteers it takes to run a meet.

A regular Saturday meet takes 47 volunteers and that is just to run the actual meet- not counting stuff at all star events like concessions, awards, parking attendants...

I am the volunteer coordinator for our team, and coordinated the volunteers for several divisionals.

18 timers
1 chief timer
4 stroke and turn
4 marshalls
1 referee
1 starter
2 clerk of course
4 data/table- place recorder, verify, awards
1 announcer

36 volunteers. Remember we are only talking here about 2 volunteers from each relay entry...but if they did this split they would have twice as many from even the smallest section (mixed age). One reason it is so hard to find volunteers for all stars right now is that you have to be there throughout the whole long ordeal....not just the one portion your kid is in.

The home pool would have to handle parking lot and concessions but they would get the money from that.

At your pool, how many parents with young kids are referees or starters or even stroke and turn and RTO. At our pool at least, parents with kids who end up being serious start as times or table and then move their way up. If we had to supply officials for a 12 and under, there is no way we're coming up with much above a timer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that that All-Star Relays is a logistical nightmare, but I've been to a lot of them, and this one was by far the worst run meet I've ever been to, bar none. You'd think one of the largest and most prominent leagues in the country would put its best foot forward for one of its two signature meets, but this year's ASR was a complete disaster.

No one thought about simple logistics. They brought in three measly sets of bleachers for a meet that was going to feature almost a thousand swimmers. There were 3 port-a-potties for the swimmer area when there are hundreds of swimmers. I counted - at one point the line was 40 deep. Because the number of port-a-lets was so inadequate, the whole site reeked of port-a-potty half-an-hour into the meet. The walk to clerk was perilous for kids, and there had been no forethought given to putting down any sort of mat to protect kids from stumbling over tree roots, rocks, etc.

The Hamlet personnel were rude, abrasive and obviously never wanted to host the meet. I am not sure I blame them. There has got to be a better way to run this meet. Charge every team a $100 relay entry fee and use the money to rent bleachers and to entice a pool that actually wants to host as opposed to the outright hostility of the Hamlet folks.

The NVSL should be utterly ashamed tonight. What a travesty....

Thanks for posting OP. Not all pools have the space to host the event, but this one landed on Hamlet. If they agreed to host, they should have run it liked they gave a da*n, or not agreed to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was there. Div 2 team with a lot of relays participating. I had 3 kids swimming in 6 events. I applaud Hamlet for stepping up. All of their volunteers did the best they could, especially the marshals running the bleachers. The drop-off area was great. It was brutally hot, but there was plenty of space for teams to hang out. The clerk of course was at least in the shade.

If parents would follow the rules and get out when their kids aren't swimming, it would have made everything better. The bleachers were tight but there was enough room for each event if people would move. Maybe they give out tickets for each event and you need one to be in the spectator area. Otherwise, you hang out outside the pool.

What about using the Saint James? Or another indoor facility? Or just get rid of parents all together. Parents just make everything worse. If you want to see the meet, you volunteer. Otherwise, stay home and watch the livestream. I heard it was good.

None would be big enough. I think splitting the event amongst pools would be the smart move. Two day event. Two or three pools for the different age groups day one and day two the mixed age.

I think the split makes sense. But maybe instead of multiple venues, which would be hard on the league, it is a one day event with three sessions: 12& unders are in the morning. There is a mixed age session after that. And the third session is 13 and ups. That way the mixed age can overlap. One big, long day, but much more manageable.

Many of the officials there last night haven't had a kid swimming in 30 years....

But I think there should also be more money available to pools to entice them to host. There were 396 relay teams last night. If each team entry were $20, you'd have almost $7000. $5000 to the host pool on top of concessions might cause some more pools to step up. With the remaining $2000, you rent bleachers, port-a-lets, etc.

All of the miscues yesterday were foreseeable, and it sounds like a bigger budget could have gone a long way to solving some of these issues.

Good luck finding enough qualified volunteers if you split the meet. it is hard enough getting people to volunteer for this meet.

Even one event has 18 teams...18x4= 72 swimmers. Just require each team to send 2 volunteers, and you've got 36 volunteers which is more than enough.

you have no clue how many volunteers it takes to run a meet.

A regular Saturday meet takes 47 volunteers and that is just to run the actual meet- not counting stuff at all star events like concessions, awards, parking attendants...

I am the volunteer coordinator for our team, and coordinated the volunteers for several divisionals.

18 timers
1 chief timer
4 stroke and turn
4 marshalls
1 referee
1 starter
2 clerk of course
4 data/table- place recorder, verify, awards
1 announcer

36 volunteers. Remember we are only talking here about 2 volunteers from each relay entry...but if they did this split they would have twice as many from even the smallest section (mixed age). One reason it is so hard to find volunteers for all stars right now is that you have to be there throughout the whole long ordeal....not just the one portion your kid is in.

The home pool would have to handle parking lot and concessions but they would get the money from that.

At your pool, how many parents with young kids are referees or starters or even stroke and turn and RTO. At our pool at least, parents with kids who end up being serious start as times or table and then move their way up. If we had to supply officials for a 12 and under, there is no way we're coming up with much above a timer.