All-Star Relays -- Why Was the NVSLs Premier Event Such a Disaster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

Honestly if All Star Relays is just a big D1 pissing match we should just make them pay. they certainly have the money.

They do in a way. Each division sends volunteers in proportion to the number of teams they send. D1 has to provide a large staff for the meet. It's only fair, but if there is monetary contribution, it should follow the same model. D1 will pay more, other divisions less.

Actually, they don’t. Division 1 was asked to send 6 volunteers (1 RTo/timer, 2 timers, 1 clerk of course, 2 turn end RTOs) and they didn’t fill all of them. They are asked to provide 1/6 of what’s asked for but have about 30% of the entries.

Are you serious?? How could they not fill all of them? They must have eventually filled them as it is a requirement.

Of course it is not correct....

Other divisions stepped up and filled. Div 12 and 15 had RTOs cover for higher divisions and they didn’t even have to send anyone.

There are six RTOs listed in the program. Two are from D1 (T and CB) and both were there and worked the meet. Whichever positions were not filled were not ones D1 was supposed to cover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

Honestly if All Star Relays is just a big D1 pissing match we should just make them pay. they certainly have the money.

They do in a way. Each division sends volunteers in proportion to the number of teams they send. D1 has to provide a large staff for the meet. It's only fair, but if there is monetary contribution, it should follow the same model. D1 will pay more, other divisions less.

Actually, they don’t. Division 1 was asked to send 6 volunteers (1 RTo/timer, 2 timers, 1 clerk of course, 2 turn end RTOs) and they didn’t fill all of them. They are asked to provide 1/6 of what’s asked for but have about 30% of the entries.

That is incorrect. Check the program. 1 CJ from Div. 1 (O). 2 RTOS (T, CB). 1 RTO/Timer (O). 1 C of C (O). 2 timers (CB, T). Awards (DR, HS). I saw all of those folks there.

Also provided Marshals and other personnel.

Yes and Langley manned the swimmer drop off all afternoon. There were plenty of D1 volunteers.

Those were current and past division coordinators manning the drop off. That’s separate from the 6 required positions that needed filled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

Honestly if All Star Relays is just a big D1 pissing match we should just make them pay. they certainly have the money.

They do in a way. Each division sends volunteers in proportion to the number of teams they send. D1 has to provide a large staff for the meet. It's only fair, but if there is monetary contribution, it should follow the same model. D1 will pay more, other divisions less.

Actually, they don’t. Division 1 was asked to send 6 volunteers (1 RTo/timer, 2 timers, 1 clerk of course, 2 turn end RTOs) and they didn’t fill all of them. They are asked to provide 1/6 of what’s asked for but have about 30% of the entries.

That is incorrect. Check the program. 1 CJ from Div. 1 (O). 2 RTOS (T, CB). 1 RTO/Timer (O). 1 C of C (O). 2 timers (CB, T). Awards (DR, HS). I saw all of those folks there.

Also provided Marshals and other personnel.

Yes and Langley manned the swimmer drop off all afternoon. There were plenty of D1 volunteers.

Those were current and past division coordinators manning the drop off. That’s separate from the 6 required positions that needed filled.

PP here and a Langley parent- those were Langley parents. We were asked to man drop offs as our volunteer contribution (as opposed to timers). There were at least 3 Langley parents who did so, but I suppose the rest were division coordinators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamlet volunteered because guess what - NO OTHER POOL STEPPED UP.

So if they had not had it - it would have been virtual again. The league is still volunteers and a lot of the senior leadership left and never trained replacements. Did not even occur to them.

I actually like your idea of an entrance fee - $50 a team with part of the money going for port a potties/bleachers/water stations, etc. And part of it going to the host team to make money - because concession sales will be great, but added money is better.

The league already pays for those.

The same entry fee whether you have 1 or 20 relay entries?

Of course not. You charge a fee per team. Perhaps it is $20 per team in the event. That would be 8K to the host pool. If you divide the event amongst pools you divide the amount. This would be the rental fee.

Ok. The PP wrote “50 a team”.

The NVSL already contributes $. I think it is in the $7.5k to 8k range.

Honestly if All Star Relays is just a big D1 pissing match we should just make them pay. they certainly have the money.

They do in a way. Each division sends volunteers in proportion to the number of teams they send. D1 has to provide a large staff for the meet. It's only fair, but if there is monetary contribution, it should follow the same model. D1 will pay more, other divisions less.

Actually, they don’t. Division 1 was asked to send 6 volunteers (1 RTo/timer, 2 timers, 1 clerk of course, 2 turn end RTOs) and they didn’t fill all of them. They are asked to provide 1/6 of what’s asked for but have about 30% of the entries.

That is incorrect. Check the program. 1 CJ from Div. 1 (O). 2 RTOS (T, CB). 1 RTO/Timer (O). 1 C of C (O). 2 timers (CB, T). Awards (DR, HS). I saw all of those folks there.

Also provided Marshals and other personnel.

Yes and Langley manned the swimmer drop off all afternoon. There were plenty of D1 volunteers.

Those were current and past division coordinators manning the drop off. That’s separate from the 6 required positions that needed filled.

Again, not true. I talked to the nice woman wearing the Langley hat for a couple minutes. Her kids were swimming. All the required positions were filled. You are just making stuff up at this point. You've been called out and shown wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that that All-Star Relays is a logistical nightmare, but I've been to a lot of them, and this one was by far the worst run meet I've ever been to, bar none. You'd think one of the largest and most prominent leagues in the country would put its best foot forward for one of its two signature meets, but this year's ASR was a complete disaster.

No one thought about simple logistics. They brought in three measly sets of bleachers for a meet that was going to feature almost a thousand swimmers. There were 3 port-a-potties for the swimmer area when there are hundreds of swimmers. I counted - at one point the line was 40 deep. Because the number of port-a-lets was so inadequate, the whole site reeked of port-a-potty half-an-hour into the meet. The walk to clerk was perilous for kids, and there had been no forethought given to putting down any sort of mat to protect kids from stumbling over tree roots, rocks, etc.

The Hamlet personnel were rude, abrasive and obviously never wanted to host the meet. I am not sure I blame them. There has got to be a better way to run this meet. Charge every team a $100 relay entry fee and use the money to rent bleachers and to entice a pool that actually wants to host as opposed to the outright hostility of the Hamlet folks.

The NVSL should be utterly ashamed tonight. What a travesty....

Nvsl so far behind MCSL. The rmsc rays are dirty cheaters but they host nice invite meets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at "one of the largest and most prominent leagues in the country" -- it's summer swimming! Utterly meaningless in the big picture, and no one in "the country" cares a whit about how your kid does in summer swim team relays. Simmer down, OP, and just have fun with it.

1) Factually OP is right

https://www.swimtopia.com/nvsl-the-first-and-biggest-summer-swim-league/

"When it comes to Summer League swimming, the Northern Virginia Swimming League, or NVSL as it is commonly known, is the one of the “Grandfathers” of summer swimming – one of the oldest and biggest leagues."

https://swimswam.com/northern-virginia-swim-league-cancels-2020-season/

"The Northern Virginia Swim League (NVSL) perhaps the single-most star-studded summer swim league in the country"

"A number of nationally-recognized names got their start — or at least some fun SCM racing — in the NVSL, and the star power continues to be strong enough that USA National Team member and 12 time individual NCAA All-American Andrew Seliskar no longer holds any league records. Future Texas Longhorn Anthony Grimm swept all of the boys 15-18 records last summer, erasing Seliskar’s butterfly and IM marks from that age group."

2) Everything is utterly meaningless in the big picture. Doesn't mean the NVSL shouldn't be held accountable for last night's debacle.

3) You obviously weren't there. Nothing about last night remotely resembled fun. I love summer swimming. I did it as a kid, and I've had some of the best times I can remember watching my kids swim in the summer (they compete all winter too). But all the kids and families that were there last night deserve better. If it means raising dues a bit so there is more operating budget or a part time administrator, so be it. But there was so serious swimming talent out there last night and they deserve a better experience than what they got.

So it would have been alright if less talented kids were swimming? These special kids deserve better than summer volunteers?

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry to read this thread. I thought it was very generous of Hamlet to step up and host what is a very, very difficult event.

I grew up in NVSL, swimming for team in a lower division, and have very fond memories, despite never making it to ASR (I wasn't that great a swimmer!) But my family is now a member of one of the top 3 D1 teams, and my kids, who inherited my swimming skills (or lack thereof) are loving it.

They went to the meet yesterday to cheer on their friends, sitting in the team tent and running errands as requested by the coaches (e.g. filling waters, relaying messages) Kids were thrilled by the camaraderie and fun, and had only good reports. Yes, they came home filthy, splattered with mud, sunburned, and tired, but they made memories that will last a lifetime.

I was watching the live feed at home, and was torn between cheering for my childhood team (now D6) and my kids' D1 team.

I've often wished our neighborhood pool were lower-ranked so my kids might have a chance to swim in an A meet, but they are having just as much fun as I did, cheering on their more competitive teammates.

I'm sorry that so many of you had a poor experience yesterday, but remember, it's about the kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was there. Div 2 team with a lot of relays participating. I had 3 kids swimming in 6 events. I applaud Hamlet for stepping up. All of their volunteers did the best they could, especially the marshals running the bleachers. The drop-off area was great. It was brutally hot, but there was plenty of space for teams to hang out. The clerk of course was at least in the shade.

If parents would follow the rules and get out when their kids aren't swimming, it would have made everything better. The bleachers were tight but there was enough room for each event if people would move. Maybe they give out tickets for each event and you need one to be in the spectator area. Otherwise, you hang out outside the pool.

What about using the Saint James? Or another indoor facility? Or just get rid of parents all together. Parents just make everything worse. If you want to see the meet, you volunteer. Otherwise, stay home and watch the livestream. I heard it was good.

None would be big enough. I think splitting the event amongst pools would be the smart move. Two day event. Two or three pools for the different age groups day one and day two the mixed age.

I think the split makes sense. But maybe instead of multiple venues, which would be hard on the league, it is a one day event with three sessions: 12& unders are in the morning. There is a mixed age session after that. And the third session is 13 and ups. That way the mixed age can overlap. One big, long day, but much more manageable.

But I think there should also be more money available to pools to entice them to host. There were 396 relay teams last night. If each team entry were $20, you'd have almost $7000. $5000 to the host pool on top of concessions might cause some more pools to step up. With the remaining $2000, you rent bleachers, port-a-lets, etc.

All of the miscues yesterday were foreseeable, and it sounds like a bigger budget could have gone a long way to solving some of these issues.

Good luck finding enough qualified volunteers if you split the meet. it is hard enough getting people to volunteer for this meet.

Even one event has 18 teams...18x4= 72 swimmers. Just require each team to send 2 volunteers, and you've got 36 volunteers which is more than enough.

I volunteer you as the volunteer coordinator then.

Our division needed to find 4 volunteers for ASR and it was not easy...

Go by percentage of teams submitted. Your team submits 4 relay teams you must supply X volunteers or those teams don't swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to read this thread. I thought it was very generous of Hamlet to step up and host what is a very, very difficult event.

I grew up in NVSL, swimming for team in a lower division, and have very fond memories, despite never making it to ASR (I wasn't that great a swimmer!) But my family is now a member of one of the top 3 D1 teams, and my kids, who inherited my swimming skills (or lack thereof) are loving it.

They went to the meet yesterday to cheer on their friends, sitting in the team tent and running errands as requested by the coaches (e.g. filling waters, relaying messages) Kids were thrilled by the camaraderie and fun, and had only good reports. Yes, they came home filthy, splattered with mud, sunburned, and tired, but they made memories that will last a lifetime.

I was watching the live feed at home, and was torn between cheering for my childhood team (now D6) and my kids' D1 team.

I've often wished our neighborhood pool were lower-ranked so my kids might have a chance to swim in an A meet, but they are having just as much fun as I did, cheering on their more competitive teammates.

I'm sorry that so many of you had a poor experience yesterday, but remember, it's about the kids!

So a bunch of kids who didn’t swim and parents whose kids didn’t swim were part of the reason that it was so absurdly crowded

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at "one of the largest and most prominent leagues in the country" -- it's summer swimming! Utterly meaningless in the big picture, and no one in "the country" cares a whit about how your kid does in summer swim team relays. Simmer down, OP, and just have fun with it.

+1. OP is ridiculous. And one senses this is just one in a series of ridiculous threads OP has started.

Agree.

Why do I get the strong sense this same person also wrote the ridiculous hit-piece slandering Tuckahoe as somehow “racist” (which turned out to be completely false).

The style is quite similar, isn't it? These are the parents that everyone tries to avoid.

Hopefully her kid switches to soccer and drops swimming altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to read this thread. I thought it was very generous of Hamlet to step up and host what is a very, very difficult event.

I grew up in NVSL, swimming for team in a lower division, and have very fond memories, despite never making it to ASR (I wasn't that great a swimmer!) But my family is now a member of one of the top 3 D1 teams, and my kids, who inherited my swimming skills (or lack thereof) are loving it.

They went to the meet yesterday to cheer on their friends, sitting in the team tent and running errands as requested by the coaches (e.g. filling waters, relaying messages) Kids were thrilled by the camaraderie and fun, and had only good reports. Yes, they came home filthy, splattered with mud, sunburned, and tired, but they made memories that will last a lifetime.

I was watching the live feed at home, and was torn between cheering for my childhood team (now D6) and my kids' D1 team.

I've often wished our neighborhood pool were lower-ranked so my kids might have a chance to swim in an A meet, but they are having just as much fun as I did, cheering on their more competitive teammates.

I'm sorry that so many of you had a poor experience yesterday, but remember, it's about the kids!

So a bunch of kids who didn’t swim and parents whose kids didn’t swim were part of the reason that it was so absurdly crowded

That would explain a lot. I really think that NVSL needs to limit the crowd. It was crazy and I’m sure didn’t meet local safety ordinances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to read this thread. I thought it was very generous of Hamlet to step up and host what is a very, very difficult event.

I grew up in NVSL, swimming for team in a lower division, and have very fond memories, despite never making it to ASR (I wasn't that great a swimmer!) But my family is now a member of one of the top 3 D1 teams, and my kids, who inherited my swimming skills (or lack thereof) are loving it.

They went to the meet yesterday to cheer on their friends, sitting in the team tent and running errands as requested by the coaches (e.g. filling waters, relaying messages) Kids were thrilled by the camaraderie and fun, and had only good reports. Yes, they came home filthy, splattered with mud, sunburned, and tired, but they made memories that will last a lifetime.

I was watching the live feed at home, and was torn between cheering for my childhood team (now D6) and my kids' D1 team.

I've often wished our neighborhood pool were lower-ranked so my kids might have a chance to swim in an A meet, but they are having just as much fun as I did, cheering on their more competitive teammates.

I'm sorry that so many of you had a poor experience yesterday, but remember, it's about the kids!

So a bunch of kids who didn’t swim and parents whose kids didn’t swim were part of the reason that it was so absurdly crowded

Hey Grinch, kids went to a meet to cheer for their friends and had a good time. That's actually really nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry to read this thread. I thought it was very generous of Hamlet to step up and host what is a very, very difficult event.

I grew up in NVSL, swimming for team in a lower division, and have very fond memories, despite never making it to ASR (I wasn't that great a swimmer!) But my family is now a member of one of the top 3 D1 teams, and my kids, who inherited my swimming skills (or lack thereof) are loving it.

They went to the meet yesterday to cheer on their friends, sitting in the team tent and running errands as requested by the coaches (e.g. filling waters, relaying messages) Kids were thrilled by the camaraderie and fun, and had only good reports. Yes, they came home filthy, splattered with mud, sunburned, and tired, but they made memories that will last a lifetime.

I was watching the live feed at home, and was torn between cheering for my childhood team (now D6) and my kids' D1 team.

I've often wished our neighborhood pool were lower-ranked so my kids might have a chance to swim in an A meet, but they are having just as much fun as I did, cheering on their more competitive teammates.

I'm sorry that so many of you had a poor experience yesterday, but remember, it's about the kids!

So a bunch of kids who didn’t swim and parents whose kids didn’t swim were part of the reason that it was so absurdly crowded

Hey Grinch, kids went to a meet to cheer for their friends and had a good time. That's actually really nice.

Except they crowed out people whose kids were swimming

[Anonymous]

Bunch of ingrates on this here website. Hopefully the good folks at Hamlet don't read this board. They stepped up when nobody else would and get absolutely buried.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Anonymous]

They should pay one of the pools with ten swimming lanes to host.