I am confused between Stuart Hobson Middle School vs. Deal Middle School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its understandable that one would prefer schools where their children can see other people like them and not feel alienated but if Asians won't enroll their kids in local schools, how are these schools ever going to have any diversity? If DCPS can attract them to local schools, it really can add fresh air for everyone. New and different perspectives can invigorate a learning community. This is America, we don't need segregation, we need inclusion.

I’m Asian and was interested in DCPS but DCPS has made it abundantly clear that they tolerate white kids, care about AA kids and don’t give a damn about Asians. I don’t really think they care about Latinos either.

Curious why you feel this way.

DP

It's demographics and power. DCPS is majority black so those will always be catered too first. Hispanics fail to max there political clout anywhere, same with asians and in DC there are barely any asians in DCPS. White people have more of both but there numbers quickly decrease after elementary schools so most of DCPS just chooses to ignore them.

...plus. a lot of the white families are cowed by the fear of being called "racist" or "not an ally" and so they won't speak up. There's a population of vocal black folks and their wokey woke white enablers who have decided that any white person who demands academic excellence (for all kids) is secretly seeking to oppress POC. (Take a moment and consider how regressive that is - demanding academic excellence for all kids is anti-black!) I swear to you there are people in DC who actually believe that their kids should suffer or accept less than an excellent education as some sort of concession prize to black folks for our country's shameful history of slavery and systemic racism. Never understood that mentality.

Personally, I:
1. Don't care what you call me. My liberalism isn't performative, it is real and rooted in a desire to see a high quality education provided to all kids in DC.
2. Think it is perverse and regressive that we have decided that "equity" means teaching to the bottom or lowering standards.
3. Won't put my kids at risk (physically, emotionally, academically) so that some performative liberal talking point will look kindly on me and mine.

This!!! I also have observed that this is a convenient position for parents of average white kids who wouldn’t be placed in the more advanced classes, to take….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bully for you. No idea what your point is. Asian representation in DC public schools is around 1.5%. Not for this Asian family after elementary. When my kid did a shadow day at BASIS he couldn’t find an Asian admin or teacher.

Not sure what your point is either.

DC is only 4.5% Asian overall and that probably includes a lot of childless young people.

BASIS DC is 7% Asian.

Fairfax County is 21% Asian and TJ is around 70% Asian.

Enjoy the burbs!

We're staying put, thanks, with a scholarship from a private. Enjoy BASIS. That should work well as long as your kid isn't interested in pursuing advanced languages, competitive sports, music, drama, art, singing, scientific research, you name it with classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an Asian family, I love DCPS. My kid doesn't have to compete with many other Asian families and does well. We're not a first gen family and have checked a bit out of the rat race many of our family members dealt with in NoVa and MoCo. DC suits us just fine.

We're an Asian family that finds our mostly white and umc DCPS ES, 8 years in, to be more of a rat race than the community at the heritage language school our kids attend in NoVa on weekends. The suburban families we deal with seem to enjoy learning and academic challenge more than impressing/beating competitors. Would BASIS DC be so popular with umc families in this city if the rat race was confined to the burbs?

Asian families generally lack the patience for DC public schools past elementary. The middle and high schools are too crowded, segregated by race and class, spartan, inflexible, badly managed by DCPS higher ups (the firing of the good Walls head comes to mind) and/or low-performing.

Rat race stress is for those without enough imagination, creativity or chutzpah. Nobody stopping your family members from running their own races.

TJ, which is 70% Asian, is a very relaxed and low stress. No rat race there!

Calling heavily Asian public schools in this area rat races is a defensive position taken by parents like you.

I'm a physician who's supervised a number of interns and residents over the years, of various races, who got their start in studying sciences intensely at TJ. The TJ grads have talked about how they loved the school for its great teaching, exceptional peer group, excellent facilities and emphasis on independent research. TJ just wasn't a rat race to them.

BASIS looks like the rat race by comparison, with relentless grade pressure from 5th grade, controlling management at both the franchise HQ and local admin level, a dark, cramped building, a culling of the weak, and comparatively few ways for students to blow off steam constructively. Hobson isn't worth it, but Deal seems like the better bet.

[Anonymous]

this forum is such a sewer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the “woke” mostly genuinely believe that kids benefit from racial and socioeconomic integration and want better schools for everyone. its complex.

Too easy.

Your articulated goals are not defined in a such a manner as to be universally understood. For instance, what does "integration" mean? Does it mean that a school accurately reflects the make-up of the IB population? In which case some schools would be virtually all white with almost no economically disadvantaged. If not, then there's a disconnect between the IB preference system and the goals you so cavalierly throw around. Which begs the question, why are you so certain those are the goals if the people who set the system up did so in a manner that doesn't result in those goals being achieved?

What are "better schools"? Does that mean the bottom is brought up? The top are advanced even more so year after year? Both? Is a one point increase for a kid 2 grade levels below more valuable than a one point test increase for the kid already two grade levels above? Half as valuable? What's the proper ratio? Do we invest in more advanced classes or more remedial Special Ed resources? That is one of the main issues facing public education. Resources are finite; how many and in what percentage should they be brought to the fore for the most at risk vs those desiring advanced classes?

A necessary first step to solving for any issues is to first (1) agree on meaning of defined terms and (2) identify what 'success' looks like. The "woke" to whom I made (admittedly derisive) reference like to throw around platitudes and bumper sticker phrases and try and intimidate anyone who doesn't agree with their (ill defined) policy goals as racist or "Karens". They seek "equity" but they don't define it, and often times their definition is horribly regressive and equates to lowering standards and/or assuming economically disadvantaged and POC can't meet a higher standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this forum is such a sewer

This water is wet.
This steaming coffee is hot.
This equator has warm weather.
This ice is cold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bully for you. No idea what your point is. Asian representation in DC public schools is around 1.5%. Not for this Asian family after elementary. When my kid did a shadow day at BASIS he couldn’t find an Asian admin or teacher.

Not sure what your point is either.

DC is only 4.5% Asian overall and that probably includes a lot of childless young people.

BASIS DC is 7% Asian.

Fairfax County is 21% Asian and TJ is around 70% Asian.

Enjoy the burbs!

We're staying put, thanks, with a scholarship from a private. Enjoy BASIS. That should work well as long as your kid isn't interested in pursuing advanced languages, competitive sports, music, drama, art, singing, scientific research, you name it with classmates.

And they don't have a library either!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an Asian family, I love DCPS. My kid doesn't have to compete with many other Asian families and does well. We're not a first gen family and have checked a bit out of the rat race many of our family members dealt with in NoVa and MoCo. DC suits us just fine.

We're an Asian family that finds our mostly white and umc DCPS ES, 8 years in, to be more of a rat race than the community at the heritage language school our kids attend in NoVa on weekends. The suburban families we deal with seem to enjoy learning and academic challenge more than impressing/beating competitors. Would BASIS DC be so popular with umc families in this city if the rat race was confined to the burbs?

Asian families generally lack the patience for DC public schools past elementary. The middle and high schools are too crowded, segregated by race and class, spartan, inflexible, badly managed by DCPS higher ups (the firing of the good Walls head comes to mind) and/or low-performing.

Rat race stress is for those without enough imagination, creativity or chutzpah. Nobody stopping your family members from running their own races.

TJ, which is 70% Asian, is a very relaxed and low stress. No rat race there!

Calling heavily Asian public schools in this area rat races is a defensive position taken by parents like you.



I'm a physician who's supervised a number of interns and residents over the years, of various races, who got their start in studying sciences intensely at TJ. The TJ grads have talked about how they loved the school for its great teaching, exceptional peer group, excellent facilities and emphasis on independent research. TJ just wasn't a rat race to them.

BASIS looks like the rat race by comparison, with relentless grade pressure from 5th grade, controlling management at both the franchise HQ and local admin level, a dark, cramped building, a culling of the weak, and comparatively few ways for students to blow off steam constructively. Hobson isn't worth it, but Deal seems like the better bet.

I went to college with a lot of TJ grads and this comports with how they would describe their experience. The only objection I would make to this analysis is the criticism of BASIS "culling the weak." TJ has the opportunity to do this through the admissions process. BASIS is not allowed to have competitive admissions so they "cull" once the students arrive. It is pretty clear that BASIS would rather have an admissions test, but DC does not allow it, so they do the next best thing (from their perspective).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the “woke” mostly genuinely believe that kids benefit from racial and socioeconomic integration and want better schools for everyone. its complex.

Too easy.

Your articulated goals are not defined in a such a manner as to be universally understood. For instance, what does "integration" mean? Does it mean that a school accurately reflects the make-up of the IB population? In which case some schools would be virtually all white with almost no economically disadvantaged. If not, then there's a disconnect between the IB preference system and the goals you so cavalierly throw around. Which begs the question, why are you so certain those are the goals if the people who set the system up did so in a manner that doesn't result in those goals being achieved?

What are "better schools"? Does that mean the bottom is brought up? The top are advanced even more so year after year? Both? Is a one point increase for a kid 2 grade levels below more valuable than a one point test increase for the kid already two grade levels above? Half as valuable? What's the proper ratio? Do we invest in more advanced classes or more remedial Special Ed resources? That is one of the main issues facing public education. Resources are finite; how many and in what percentage should they be brought to the fore for the most at risk vs those desiring advanced classes?

A necessary first step to solving for any issues is to first (1) agree on meaning of defined terms and (2) identify what 'success' looks like. The "woke" to whom I made (admittedly derisive) reference like to throw around platitudes and bumper sticker phrases and try and intimidate anyone who doesn't agree with their (ill defined) policy goals as racist or "Karens". They seek "equity" but they don't define it, and often times their definition is horribly regressive and equates to lowering standards and/or assuming economically disadvantaged and POC can't meet a higher standard.

These are all fair questions and I'll tell you where I (and I think many other DCPS parents) draw the line. We were deciding whether to move from the Hill to NWDC many many years ago. I went to a Wilson open house. They were very clear that their student body was large enough and academically strong enough that they could offer AP classes in every single subject (which is far more than many many small public HSs across the country will offer). But they had to dedicate their resources to their under-performing students. That meant very large class sizes for AP, with a much lower student-teacher ratio for the less advanced classes. Basically the message was, we welcome the academically advanced students and you can count on us to provide the coursework and the teachers. But don't expect small classes, hand-holding, or excellent college counseling. While I might prefer a school that could provide more of that, it was a trade-off I was willing to make in order to stay in DC, where our family was (and is) very happy. And I appreciated that the Wilson leadership (at least at the time, I don't know if this has changed), was up-front about all of it. We decided to move to NW for the Wilson option. There was no way in the world we would even consider sending our kids to Eastern, however, which didn't even offer AP or true honors classes in the first place (and whose description of "curriculum" on their website was rather confusing and concerning).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an Asian family, I love DCPS. My kid doesn't have to compete with many other Asian families and does well. We're not a first gen family and have checked a bit out of the rat race many of our family members dealt with in NoVa and MoCo. DC suits us just fine.

We're an Asian family that finds our mostly white and umc DCPS ES, 8 years in, to be more of a rat race than the community at the heritage language school our kids attend in NoVa on weekends. The suburban families we deal with seem to enjoy learning and academic challenge more than impressing/beating competitors. Would BASIS DC be so popular with umc families in this city if the rat race was confined to the burbs?

Asian families generally lack the patience for DC public schools past elementary. The middle and high schools are too crowded, segregated by race and class, spartan, inflexible, badly managed by DCPS higher ups (the firing of the good Walls head comes to mind) and/or low-performing.

Rat race stress is for those without enough imagination, creativity or chutzpah. Nobody stopping your family members from running their own races.

TJ, which is 70% Asian, is a very relaxed and low stress. No rat race there!

The stress is all in the admissions to TJ. Once you are there, it's not a rat race at all. I agree with the previous poster, and BASIS has no admissions test, so they can't do what TJ does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bully for you. No idea what your point is. Asian representation in DC public schools is around 1.5%. Not for this Asian family after elementary. When my kid did a shadow day at BASIS he couldn’t find an Asian admin or teacher.

Not sure what your point is either.

DC is only 4.5% Asian overall and that probably includes a lot of childless young people.

BASIS DC is 7% Asian.

Fairfax County is 21% Asian and TJ is around 70% Asian.

Enjoy the burbs!

We're staying put, thanks, with a scholarship from a private. Enjoy BASIS. That should work well as long as your kid isn't interested in pursuing advanced languages, competitive sports, music, drama, art, singing, scientific research, you name it with classmates.

Actually, my kid at BASIS does all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an Asian family, I love DCPS. My kid doesn't have to compete with many other Asian families and does well. We're not a first gen family and have checked a bit out of the rat race many of our family members dealt with in NoVa and MoCo. DC suits us just fine.

We're an Asian family that finds our mostly white and umc DCPS ES, 8 years in, to be more of a rat race than the community at the heritage language school our kids attend in NoVa on weekends. The suburban families we deal with seem to enjoy learning and academic challenge more than impressing/beating competitors. Would BASIS DC be so popular with umc families in this city if the rat race was confined to the burbs?

Asian families generally lack the patience for DC public schools past elementary. The middle and high schools are too crowded, segregated by race and class, spartan, inflexible, badly managed by DCPS higher ups (the firing of the good Walls head comes to mind) and/or low-performing.

Rat race stress is for those without enough imagination, creativity or chutzpah. Nobody stopping your family members from running their own races.

TJ, which is 70% Asian, is a very relaxed and low stress. No rat race there!

The stress is all in the admissions to TJ. Once you are there, it's not a rat race at all. I agree with the previous poster, and BASIS has no admissions test, so they can't do what TJ does.

TJ doesn't have an admissions test either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/05/31/thomas-jefferson-high-school-freshmen-admissions/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an Asian family, I love DCPS. My kid doesn't have to compete with many other Asian families and does well. We're not a first gen family and have checked a bit out of the rat race many of our family members dealt with in NoVa and MoCo. DC suits us just fine.

We're an Asian family that finds our mostly white and umc DCPS ES, 8 years in, to be more of a rat race than the community at the heritage language school our kids attend in NoVa on weekends. The suburban families we deal with seem to enjoy learning and academic challenge more than impressing/beating competitors. Would BASIS DC be so popular with umc families in this city if the rat race was confined to the burbs?

Asian families generally lack the patience for DC public schools past elementary. The middle and high schools are too crowded, segregated by race and class, spartan, inflexible, badly managed by DCPS higher ups (the firing of the good Walls head comes to mind) and/or low-performing.

Rat race stress is for those without enough imagination, creativity or chutzpah. Nobody stopping your family members from running their own races.

TJ, which is 70% Asian, is a very relaxed and low stress. No rat race there!

The stress is all in the admissions to TJ. Once you are there, it's not a rat race at all. I agree with the previous poster, and BASIS has no admissions test, so they can't do what TJ does.

Oh really, anonymous poster?

"77% of Thomas Jefferson High School students report feeling 'often' or 'always' stressed about schoolwork."

-Stanford Surveys of School Experiences (Spring 2019)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bully for you. No idea what your point is. Asian representation in DC public schools is around 1.5%. Not for this Asian family after elementary. When my kid did a shadow day at BASIS he couldn’t find an Asian admin or teacher.

Not sure what your point is either.

DC is only 4.5% Asian overall and that probably includes a lot of childless young people.

BASIS DC is 7% Asian.

Fairfax County is 21% Asian and TJ is around 70% Asian.

Enjoy the burbs!

We're staying put, thanks, with a scholarship from a private. Enjoy BASIS. That should work well as long as your kid isn't interested in pursuing advanced languages, competitive sports, music, drama, art, singing, scientific research, you name it with classmates.

Actually, my kid at BASIS does all that.

Nonsense. We were at BASIS so we know that advanced languages are not taught there, not one course past AP level. The facilities for the arts are hopeless, so there's no serious arts instruction. Competitive sports, not really. BASIS doesn't have the labs or money for independent scientific research, but a few kids do some senior year outside the school. BASIS just doesn't knock it out of the park for any extra-curriculars, not compared to DC privates or the top suburban programs. No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an Asian family, I love DCPS. My kid doesn't have to compete with many other Asian families and does well. We're not a first gen family and have checked a bit out of the rat race many of our family members dealt with in NoVa and MoCo. DC suits us just fine.

We're an Asian family that finds our mostly white and umc DCPS ES, 8 years in, to be more of a rat race than the community at the heritage language school our kids attend in NoVa on weekends. The suburban families we deal with seem to enjoy learning and academic challenge more than impressing/beating competitors. Would BASIS DC be so popular with umc families in this city if the rat race was confined to the burbs?

Asian families generally lack the patience for DC public schools past elementary. The middle and high schools are too crowded, segregated by race and class, spartan, inflexible, badly managed by DCPS higher ups (the firing of the good Walls head comes to mind) and/or low-performing.

Rat race stress is for those without enough imagination, creativity or chutzpah. Nobody stopping your family members from running their own races.

TJ, which is 70% Asian, is a very relaxed and low stress. No rat race there!

The stress is all in the admissions to TJ. Once you are there, it's not a rat race at all. I agree with the previous poster, and BASIS has no admissions test, so they can't do what TJ does.

Oh really, anonymous poster?

"77% of Thomas Jefferson High School students report feeling 'often' or 'always' stressed about schoolwork."

-Stanford Surveys of School Experiences (Spring 2019)

As compared to what, 99% of BASIS students feeling stressed about schoolwork? 99% of Wilson students feeling stressed about how chaotic the school is? 77% of Sidwell families feeling stressed by how freagin expensive the school is? Life is tough.