AAP - What was the 2021-22 pool cut-off for your school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ignorant != stupid. Ignorant means the person may be unaware of the facts. A genius is still ignorant of many things. It's only an insult if you make it one.

The point is, the poster was correct about what she was saying, not confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

I have no idea what’s going on and I wonder if there are trolls on this forum but for what it’s worth, my DC is in pool and has a NNAT of 139. We are in a high SES center school (probably the highest in Fairfax county). I don’t know what the Cogat score is yet. I will send in a referral and a questionnaire. I have no work samples but I know her teacher is amazing and will submit good ones.

Curious did you get an email or letter indicating in pool? Do you mind sharing school
Pyramid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

Yeah, but the AAP center or LLIV program they get into won't be as strong. My kids attended a center program that is fed into by several Title I schools. There was a lot of remediation within AAP and no differentiation upward. It was very underwhelming. The high SES centers are the ones that have strong AAP programs. Similarly, the high SES middle schools are the ones that have Algebra II Honors or have the super special advanced Geometry class that is only taught at Longfellow.

Logistically, it does make sense to use building norms. At the high SES schools, kids who are below grade level are few and far between. Gen ed teachers should have no problem differentiating for on and above grade level groups, and advanced kids could have their needs met in gen ed. At the title I schools, half of the kids in the classroom are below grade level. The teacher barely has time to meet with the average, on-grade level kids, and will never have time for kids who are above grade level. Above average kids won't be able to have their needs met in a gen ed Title I classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

Yeah, but the AAP center or LLIV program they get into won't be as strong. My kids attended a center program that is fed into by several Title I schools. There was a lot of remediation within AAP and no differentiation upward. It was very underwhelming. The high SES centers are the ones that have strong AAP programs. Similarly, the high SES middle schools are the ones that have Algebra II Honors or have the super special advanced Geometry class that is only taught at Longfellow.

Logistically, it does make sense to use building norms. At the high SES schools, kids who are below grade level are few and far between. Gen ed teachers should have no problem differentiating for on and above grade level groups, and advanced kids could have their needs met in gen ed. At the title I schools, half of the kids in the classroom are below grade level. The teacher barely has time to meet with the average, on-grade level kids, and will never have time for kids who are above grade level. Above average kids won't be able to have their needs met in a gen ed Title I classroom.

+1

And keep in mind the VDOE definition of "gifted" that FCPS quotes here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C7TSU8744C3E/$file/2021%20Oct%20-%20local%20norm%20expansion%20briefing.pdf

"...students who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment".

Given that definition, kids in Title I schools shouldn't be compared to kids from high SES schools because the school environments (and probably home as well) are quite different. The high SES kids have more advantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

Yeah, but the AAP center or LLIV program they get into won't be as strong. My kids attended a center program that is fed into by several Title I schools. There was a lot of remediation within AAP and no differentiation upward. It was very underwhelming. The high SES centers are the ones that have strong AAP programs. Similarly, the high SES middle schools are the ones that have Algebra II Honors or have the super special advanced Geometry class that is only taught at Longfellow.

Logistically, it does make sense to use building norms. At the high SES schools, kids who are below grade level are few and far between. Gen ed teachers should have no problem differentiating for on and above grade level groups, and advanced kids could have their needs met in gen ed. At the title I schools, half of the kids in the classroom are below grade level. The teacher barely has time to meet with the average, on-grade level kids, and will never have time for kids who are above grade level. Above average kids won't be able to have their needs met in a gen ed Title I classroom.

+1

And keep in mind the VDOE definition of "gifted" that FCPS quotes here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C7TSU8744C3E/$file/2021%20Oct%20-%20local%20norm%20expansion%20briefing.pdf

"...students who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment".

Given that definition, kids in Title I schools shouldn't be compared to kids from high SES schools because the school environments (and probably home as well) are quite different. The high SES kids have more advantages.

I don't think anyone is against lower the pool number if need be for a specific school, what people are against is raising it in other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

Yeah, but the AAP center or LLIV program they get into won't be as strong. My kids attended a center program that is fed into by several Title I schools. There was a lot of remediation within AAP and no differentiation upward. It was very underwhelming. The high SES centers are the ones that have strong AAP programs. Similarly, the high SES middle schools are the ones that have Algebra II Honors or have the super special advanced Geometry class that is only taught at Longfellow.

Logistically, it does make sense to use building norms. At the high SES schools, kids who are below grade level are few and far between. Gen ed teachers should have no problem differentiating for on and above grade level groups, and advanced kids could have their needs met in gen ed. At the title I schools, half of the kids in the classroom are below grade level. The teacher barely has time to meet with the average, on-grade level kids, and will never have time for kids who are above grade level. Above average kids won't be able to have their needs met in a gen ed Title I classroom.

+1

And keep in mind the VDOE definition of "gifted" that FCPS quotes here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C7TSU8744C3E/$file/2021%20Oct%20-%20local%20norm%20expansion%20briefing.pdf

"...students who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment".

Given that definition, kids in Title I schools shouldn't be compared to kids from high SES schools because the school environments (and probably home as well) are quite different. The high SES kids have more advantages.

I don't think anyone is against lower the pool number if need be for a specific school, what people are against is raising it in other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

Yeah, but the AAP center or LLIV program they get into won't be as strong. My kids attended a center program that is fed into by several Title I schools. There was a lot of remediation within AAP and no differentiation upward. It was very underwhelming. The high SES centers are the ones that have strong AAP programs. Similarly, the high SES middle schools are the ones that have Algebra II Honors or have the super special advanced Geometry class that is only taught at Longfellow.

Logistically, it does make sense to use building norms. At the high SES schools, kids who are below grade level are few and far between. Gen ed teachers should have no problem differentiating for on and above grade level groups, and advanced kids could have their needs met in gen ed. At the title I schools, half of the kids in the classroom are below grade level. The teacher barely has time to meet with the average, on-grade level kids, and will never have time for kids who are above grade level. Above average kids won't be able to have their needs met in a gen ed Title I classroom.

+1

And keep in mind the VDOE definition of "gifted" that FCPS quotes here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C7TSU8744C3E/$file/2021%20Oct%20-%20local%20norm%20expansion%20briefing.pdf

"...students who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment".

Given that definition, kids in Title I schools shouldn't be compared to kids from high SES schools because the school environments (and probably home as well) are quite different. The high SES kids have more advantages.

I don't think anyone is against lower the pool number if need be for a specific school, what people are against is raising it in other schools.

Agreed. And if they are going to make different rules for different people, they should at least spell them out clearly.

[Anonymous]

People have been complaining that AAP is bloated for ages, perhaps this is one way of diminishing the bloat. Set an actual number of LLIV classes per school and get rid of the Centers.

All schools have one LLIV class.

All schools gain a second LLIV class when they have 200 kids in a grade.

The school in-pool scores then are set for the top 15% of CogAT for the individual school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

Yeah, but the AAP center or LLIV program they get into won't be as strong. My kids attended a center program that is fed into by several Title I schools. There was a lot of remediation within AAP and no differentiation upward. It was very underwhelming. The high SES centers are the ones that have strong AAP programs. Similarly, the high SES middle schools are the ones that have Algebra II Honors or have the super special advanced Geometry class that is only taught at Longfellow.

Logistically, it does make sense to use building norms. At the high SES schools, kids who are below grade level are few and far between. Gen ed teachers should have no problem differentiating for on and above grade level groups, and advanced kids could have their needs met in gen ed. At the title I schools, half of the kids in the classroom are below grade level. The teacher barely has time to meet with the average, on-grade level kids, and will never have time for kids who are above grade level. Above average kids won't be able to have their needs met in a gen ed Title I classroom.

+1

And keep in mind the VDOE definition of "gifted" that FCPS quotes here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C7TSU8744C3E/$file/2021%20Oct%20-%20local%20norm%20expansion%20briefing.pdf

"...students who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment".

Given that definition, kids in Title I schools shouldn't be compared to kids from high SES schools because the school environments (and probably home as well) are quite different. The high SES kids have more advantages.

I don't think anyone is against lower the pool number if need be for a specific school, what people are against is raising it in other schools.

+1000
Equity is not telling some kids to sit down. It's helping others rise up.

[Anonymous]

Lets be transparent, if the cutoff varies by school then post the numbers for each school. It will help build some trust in the selection process. It shouldn't be a secret.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lets be transparent, if the cutoff varies by school then post the numbers for each school. It will help build some trust in the selection process. It shouldn't be a secret.

I wonder if the school board members have access to that info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People have been complaining that AAP is bloated for ages, perhaps this is one way of diminishing the bloat. Set an actual number of LLIV classes per school and get rid of the Centers.

All schools have one LLIV class.

All schools gain a second LLIV class when they have 200 kids in a grade.

The school in-pool scores then are set for the top 15% of CogAT for the individual school.

Yes, FCPS seem to be skipping ahead to the No More Center Schools part of AAP. Gifted kids (or high achieving for school norms kids) get to be in one class together for 4 years.

This is what so many have asked for. And it increases URM admission to Level IV significantly. It's a win for everyone. Except for the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

I have no idea what’s going on and I wonder if there are trolls on this forum but for what it’s worth, my DC is in pool and has a NNAT of 139. We are in a high SES center school (probably the highest in Fairfax county). I don’t know what the Cogat score is yet. I will send in a referral and a questionnaire. I have no work samples but I know her teacher is amazing and will submit good ones.

Curious did you get an email or letter indicating in pool? Do you mind sharing school
Pyramid?

I got an email from the AAP central committee office on Tuesday. We are in the Langley pyramid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lets be transparent, if the cutoff varies by school then post the numbers for each school. It will help build some trust in the selection process. It shouldn't be a secret.

If it’s a percentile, the cut-offs wouldn’t be known until the scores come in. They obviously know them now but wouldn’t have until very recently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

I have no idea what’s going on and I wonder if there are trolls on this forum but for what it’s worth, my DC is in pool and has a NNAT of 139. We are in a high SES center school (probably the highest in Fairfax county). I don’t know what the Cogat score is yet. I will send in a referral and a questionnaire. I have no work samples but I know her teacher is amazing and will submit good ones.

Are you kidding me? Those kids are in a Title 1 school. They don't get many advantages. If this is one of them, well, that's fine. If you're so bent out of shape about it, move to a new neighborhood with a Title 1 school so Larla can waltz into AAP with her 130 CogAT.