AAP - What was the 2021-22 pool cut-off for your school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

Yeah, but the AAP center or LLIV program they get into won't be as strong. My kids attended a center program that is fed into by several Title I schools. There was a lot of remediation within AAP and no differentiation upward. It was very underwhelming. The high SES centers are the ones that have strong AAP programs. Similarly, the high SES middle schools are the ones that have Algebra II Honors or have the super special advanced Geometry class that is only taught at Longfellow.

Logistically, it does make sense to use building norms. At the high SES schools, kids who are below grade level are few and far between. Gen ed teachers should have no problem differentiating for on and above grade level groups, and advanced kids could have their needs met in gen ed. At the title I schools, half of the kids in the classroom are below grade level. The teacher barely has time to meet with the average, on-grade level kids, and will never have time for kids who are above grade level. Above average kids won't be able to have their needs met in a gen ed Title I classroom.

+1

And keep in mind the VDOE definition of "gifted" that FCPS quotes here: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C7TSU8744C3E/$file/2021%20Oct%20-%20local%20norm%20expansion%20briefing.pdf

"...students who demonstrate high levels of accomplishment or who show the potential for higher levels of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment".

Given that definition, kids in Title I schools shouldn't be compared to kids from high SES schools because the school environments (and probably home as well) are quite different. The high SES kids have more advantages.

I don't think anyone is against lower the pool number if need be for a specific school, what people are against is raising it in other schools.

+1000
Equity is not telling some kids to sit down. It's helping others rise up.

True but that would probably equate to an overall expansion of the program. And when it comes right down to it, a 132 is more impressive from a kid at a Title One school than at someplace like GFES.

[Anonymous]

On the contrary, Title 1 kids get many advantages from the public school system -- elegible for free full day preschool aka Head Start, mandatory small classes etc. Far more resources are spent on these schools than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think anyone is against lower the pool number if need be for a specific school, what people are against is raising it in other schools.

The point you're missing is that gen ed + advanced math at a high SES school is more rigorous and better than AAP at a high poverty center. The people on dcum who complain that AAP is too watered down, too easy, and barely above gen ed are the people with kids in the centers that now have lower cutoffs. No matter how much they lower the in-pool threshold or broaden acceptance, those kids still aren't getting any advantages over the kids in the high SES schools.

Also, a higher pool doesn't necessarily mean fewer acceptances. The pool doesn't serve any purpose at all in higher SES areas, because everyone will parent refer their above average children. They could abolish the pool altogether in the high SES schools, and nothing would change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL how is this equity when title I school kids can get in with lower scores and higher SES schools require a higher Cogat score? Equity means equitable across the board right, not giving an unfair advantage to title I school students.

I have no idea what’s going on and I wonder if there are trolls on this forum but for what it’s worth, my DC is in pool and has a NNAT of 139. We are in a high SES center school (probably the highest in Fairfax county). I don’t know what the Cogat score is yet. I will send in a referral and a questionnaire. I have no work samples but I know her teacher is amazing and will submit good ones.

Are you kidding me? Those kids are in a Title 1 school. They don't get many advantages. If this is one of them, well, that's fine. If you're so bent out of shape about it, move to a new neighborhood with a Title 1 school so Larla can waltz into AAP with her 130 CogAT.

Gosh here comes the ‘woke’ mob. If you had competent comprehension skills, you would realize I never said they shouldn’t be offered AAP services. I just said the pool for higher SES schools shouldn’t have a higher cut off and should be kept at 132 like it always has. My child is already in pool and she’s at a high SES school. I don’t even know the COGAT score yet but you bet my DC is waltzing into AAP despite being at a high SES school 😊

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the contrary, Title 1 kids get many advantages from the public school system -- elegible for free full day preschool aka Head Start, mandatory small classes etc. Far more resources are spent on these schools than others.

Wrong! FARMS kids may receive some of those. In many Title I schools, half of the kids aren't FARMS and thus not eligible for any of those perks.

Also, the mandatory small classes is a joke. My kid had 22-24 kids in her classroom from K-3, and then 28-ish kids for 4th-6th at a Title I school. In many of those classes, a decent chunk of the kids were ESOL, and at least half were below grade level. The struggling kids may have benefitted from extra resource teachers, but there was nothing whatsoever for any kids who were above average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think anyone is against lower the pool number if need be for a specific school, what people are against is raising it in other schools.

The point you're missing is that gen ed + advanced math at a high SES school is more rigorous and better than AAP at a high poverty center. The people on dcum who complain that AAP is too watered down, too easy, and barely above gen ed are the people with kids in the centers that now have lower cutoffs. No matter how much they lower the in-pool threshold or broaden acceptance, those kids still aren't getting any advantages over the kids in the high SES schools.

Also, a higher pool doesn't necessarily mean fewer acceptances. The pool doesn't serve any purpose at all in higher SES areas, because everyone will parent refer their above average children. They could abolish the pool altogether in the high SES schools, and nothing would change.

The point SHOULD be if my child scored above 132 in NNAT and COGAT, has great work samples, is getting advanced math services and gets a good GBRS, they belong in AAP regardless of what SES school they attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The point SHOULD be if my child scored above 132 in NNAT and COGAT, has great work samples, is getting advanced math services and gets a good GBRS, they belong in AAP regardless of what SES school they attend.

1. So fill out a parent referral. Your hypothetical kid will probably get in.
2. If the same school has 20 kids with 140+ scores, then maybe your child doesn't belong in the classroom with those kids. Those kids need a lightning fast gifted program, and your kid would just slow things down for everyone.
3. Many of the high SES schools use AAP materials for everyone and have multiple levels of advanced math. When most of the kids are advanced with reasonably high test scores, basically everyone is in AAP. So, it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point SHOULD be if my child scored above 132 in NNAT and COGAT, has great work samples, is getting advanced math services and gets a good GBRS, they belong in AAP regardless of what SES school they attend.

1. So fill out a parent referral. Your hypothetical kid will probably get in.
2. If the same school has 20 kids with 140+ scores, then maybe your child doesn't belong in the classroom with those kids. Those kids need a lightning fast gifted program, and your kid would just slow things down for everyone.
3. Many of the high SES schools use AAP materials for everyone and have multiple levels of advanced math. When most of the kids are advanced with reasonably high test scores, basically everyone is in AAP. So, it doesn't matter.

My very much real kid is already in pool while being at a high SES school. I don’t need to parent refer if I choose not to. You all think it’s so easy to get a 140 with some mere parent prep. It’s not! That’s why even kids in high SES schools don’t get that score. Are any of you guys even in a high SES school? Trust me there aren’t walking geniuses walking in the corridors lol. There is only ONE third grade AAP class at Churchill. There are only two fourth grade AAP classes. I trust the AAP process and I do believe the committee for the most part knows what it is doing.

[Anonymous]

Evidently, 10% or more of the kids at some schools were scoring around 140, if 138 is not in pool for that center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Evidently, 10% or more of the kids at some schools were scoring around 140, if 138 is not in pool for that center.

I just don't see how that's possible, even at high SES schools, unless they're going by the NNAT which seems to have strange scoring this past year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The point SHOULD be if my child scored above 132 in NNAT and COGAT, has great work samples, is getting advanced math services and gets a good GBRS, they belong in AAP regardless of what SES school they attend.

1. So fill out a parent referral. Your hypothetical kid will probably get in.
2. If the same school has 20 kids with 140+ scores, then maybe your child doesn't belong in the classroom with those kids. Those kids need a lightning fast gifted program, and your kid would just slow things down for everyone.
3. Many of the high SES schools use AAP materials for everyone and have multiple levels of advanced math. When most of the kids are advanced with reasonably high test scores, basically everyone is in AAP. So, it doesn't matter.

My very much real kid is already in pool while being at a high SES school. I don’t need to parent refer if I choose not to. You all think it’s so easy to get a 140 with some mere parent prep. It’s not! That’s why even kids in high SES schools don’t get that score. Are any of you guys even in a high SES school? Trust me there aren’t walking geniuses walking in the corridors lol. There is only ONE third grade AAP class at Churchill. There are only two fourth grade AAP classes. I trust the AAP process and I do believe the committee for the most part knows what it is doing.

NP. Haha, are you kidding? ONLY two fourth grade AAP classes? That’s hysterical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Evidently, 10% or more of the kids at some schools were scoring around 140, if 138 is not in pool for that center.

I just don't see how that's possible, even at high SES schools, unless they're going by the NNAT which seems to have strange scoring this past year.

Maybe the cut-off was 5% rather than 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Woah this is kind of crazy

Bet those of you who live in McLean and Great Falls are seriously regretting it now, LOL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah this is kind of crazy

Bet those of you who live in McLean and Great Falls are seriously regretting it now, LOL!

Eh, it doesn’t mean that the qualified kids won’t get in. The parents can and will refer them.

[Anonymous]

So it sounds like the bar is somewhere around 139 for the higher SES schools. Anyone have data points for a more middle of the road school?