APS Outdoor Lunch Needs to Be Optional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm, what happened at the end of August/beginning of September to cause COVID to peak in kids? Could it have been SCHOOLS OPENING. You all are acting like their risk is higher in school when it's actually LOWER. https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/see-the-numbers/covid-19-data-insights/cases-among-children/

Exactly. From what I understand, most spread is from adults to kids (not kids to kids).

But these are cases. At this point with vaccines and the fact that COVID will be here forever, we have to stop worrying about cases (which are essentially colds). Kids can get colds.

And please don't say "what about the immunocompromised?" Immunocompromised can be killed by the cold virus too (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/215084). We never shut down society for the cold virus.

Wanting to eradicate COVID or even control it is the same thing as wanting to do so for the cold virus. Futile, worthless and attempts only have costs with no benefits.

You are wrong. Kid to kid spread happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you? Your behavior puts the rest of us at risk. You may be ok with getting Covid but not everyone is. Stop with the selfish behavior. These vaccines reduce symptoms but you can still get Covid. You are the problem.

It's not selfish to want your child to be able to eat in a warm building instead of sitting outside in the cold. Do you eat all of your meals outside?

Also, get vaccinated, get your kid vaccinated, and move on. It's time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you? Your behavior puts the rest of us at risk. You may be ok with getting Covid but not everyone is. Stop with the selfish behavior. These vaccines reduce symptoms but you can still get Covid. You are the problem.

In your eyes. In the eyes of sane rational people, this is normal behavior.

Sit down Lunch Lady. We're tired of your crazy.

[Anonymous]

All I know is everyone who is less COVID cautious than me is a dangerous extremist. And everyone more COVID cautious than me has an undiagnosed anxiety disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's winter time, vaccines are widely available for kids, and families having been dining indoors at restaurants since June 2020, but our kids are forced to eat outside at APS like prisoners. It's really beyond absurd.

My family dines in at family restaurants throughout Arlington, and we often see other APS families (and say hi). The vast majority of families are doing indoor playdates and birthday parties. Why is the burden being put on the least at risk members of this society (kids)? This charade has to stop.

And before you say "that's why we have cases" - COVID is never going away!! Look at Portugal, with 90%+ of people vaccinated. Most of Florida does none of these things and has the least amount of cases in the country right now. There are seasonal surges and these types of nonpharmaceutical interventions don't stop the spread of a highly transmissible virus, as is obvious. And what is the point of doing these procedures?

These Arlington COVID extremists are essentially saying our kids have to do these mitigation methods the rest of our lives, but they can stop when they become adults. There's 0 logic to this disparate (mis-) treatment of children. And newsflash - everyone will get be exposed to COVID repeatedly in their lifetime. Everyone.

This policy is simply appealing only to the most COVID extreme in Arlington. As Anthony Fauci is making clear, COVID will not be eradicated. If you're that concerned about your child getting a case of COVID (which almost everyone will in their lifetime) that you only "feel" safe if they're eating in "light rain" or with frozen hands outdoors, then you're free to have your child eat outside. But the rest of our children need to be allowed to continue doing exactly what the law allows in every other part of society and most are already doing every weekend with friends and family - eating indoors.

O.M.G. Really? Outdoor prisoners? How inhumane to expect kids to survive 20-30 minutes outdoors in 50-degree weather.
As it happens, this idea is not limited in appeal to only "COVID extremists." Many have been advocating for more outdoor time for students for YEARS, are GLAD to see outdoor lunches, and WANT them to STAY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh.

It is optional at the middle school and high school level. So you must be ranting about elementary kids. Have you reached out to your principal? The principal has discretion over this. I'm sure your kid could eat indoors.

Are you upset about this or is your child? My kids could care less. My middle schooler loves eating outdoors in general. More space to spread out he says and it's much easier for them to socialize with each other.

I'm talking about ES kids and when it's cold. If I request my child eats indoors, are kids going to be eating together and socializing though? Or eating by themselves like little disease vectors?

It's very easy to socialize, which is called just talking to the person next to them like they can at any restaurant. Anything less than that is not eating indoors.

Sometimes people just need to make choices. You can choose whichever is more important for your child. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's winter time, vaccines are widely available for kids, and families having been dining indoors at restaurants since June 2020, but our kids are forced to eat outside at APS like prisoners. It's really beyond absurd.

My family dines in at family restaurants throughout Arlington, and we often see other APS families (and say hi). The vast majority of families are doing indoor playdates and birthday parties. Why is the burden being put on the least at risk members of this society (kids)? This charade has to stop.

And before you say "that's why we have cases" - COVID is never going away!! Look at Portugal, with 90%+ of people vaccinated. Most of Florida does none of these things and has the least amount of cases in the country right now. There are seasonal surges and these types of nonpharmaceutical interventions don't stop the spread of a highly transmissible virus, as is obvious. And what is the point of doing these procedures?

These Arlington COVID extremists are essentially saying our kids have to do these mitigation methods the rest of our lives, but they can stop when they become adults. There's 0 logic to this disparate (mis-) treatment of children. And newsflash - everyone will get be exposed to COVID repeatedly in their lifetime. Everyone.

This policy is simply appealing only to the most COVID extreme in Arlington. As Anthony Fauci is making clear, COVID will not be eradicated. If you're that concerned about your child getting a case of COVID (which almost everyone will in their lifetime) that you only "feel" safe if they're eating in "light rain" or with frozen hands outdoors, then you're free to have your child eat outside. But the rest of our children need to be allowed to continue doing exactly what the law allows in every other part of society and most are already doing every weekend with friends and family - eating indoors.

You were dining indoors with unvaccinated family in June 2020? JFC. That is why our schools were virtual last fall. Nice job.

Sit TF down - you obviously have bad judgement.

Here comes the morality play. Was dining indoors illegal? Restaurants were freely open.

The same type of mindset that said gay people were horrible people for having sex in the 1980s too, and responsible for AIDS. Disgusting.

Our schools were closed last fall because of our politicians, not because of COVID. That is clear, especially when you look at schools throughout the country and world that were open and cases in their community. But let's not get into that argument again. We know the closed school fanatics were wrong.

Let's not turn that thread into the school closures thread again. These people are just projecting - if you do something that doesn't meet their definition of COVID morality, you're a bad person and responsible for school closing (even though they advocated them being closed).

And I agree that this mandatory outdoor lunch needs to stop. Kids need to have regular lunch like pre-2020. Socializing with other kids is just as important as trying to avoid a virus that will be here the rest of their lives and vaccines are available for. We just were at a birthday party with 30 kids indoors on Saturday.

Why can't kids socialize during outdoor lunch???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OP is over the top, but I agree outdoor lunch should be optional. And I mean truly optional, no recommendation or guilting to eat outside. My kids are vaccinated and very low risk. Kids that have family members they are concerned about can continue to eat outdoors. Indoor lunch should absolutely be allowed at this point.

Optional inside/outside really doesn't work for the younger kids in elementary who have more people monitoring them and in general are just more tightly controlled as to where they can even sit during lunch.

Presumably there's a ratio adults to children. This is an easily solvable math issue.

I do agree with outdoor lunch for all when it's nice outside (even if there was no COVID).

All the logistical management of elementary kids involves the classes staying together. You can't rely on probably K-3 kids to know...oh when the bell rings or at 12:30, its time to get up and go back to my classroom.

It would be a logistical nightmare for them to offer optional outdoor lunch to this age group.

You'd be surprised. Kids know what bells and whistles mean. Now, whether all of them always act accordingly is another matter. But come on. 9 year olds know schedules and what things that happen every day in sequential order at school mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with you? Your behavior puts the rest of us at risk. You may be ok with getting Covid but not everyone is. Stop with the selfish behavior. These vaccines reduce symptoms but you can still get Covid. You are the problem.

It's not selfish to want your child to be able to eat in a warm building instead of sitting outside in the cold. Do you eat all of your meals outside?

Also, get vaccinated, get your kid vaccinated, and move on. It's time.

They eat for five minutes and then run around.

It’s great - even if we didn’t have a lingering pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OP is over the top, but I agree outdoor lunch should be optional. And I mean truly optional, no recommendation or guilting to eat outside. My kids are vaccinated and very low risk. Kids that have family members they are concerned about can continue to eat outdoors. Indoor lunch should absolutely be allowed at this point.

Optional inside/outside really doesn't work for the younger kids in elementary who have more people monitoring them and in general are just more tightly controlled as to where they can even sit during lunch.

Then it should be default indoor lunch. If outdoor lunch is that important they can figure out logistics. But outdoors should not be default in winter. The examples of kids in Canada always having outdoor recess is dumb. Those kids have better clothes and are running around during recess, not resting trying to eat lunch. I hate the cold and so do my kids, so i hear complaints. I've been biting my lip until vaccination but now it's all ridiculous. If Omicron is as transmissible as we think, those cloth masks aren't doing jack for them anyway. We're all going to get it.

Winter outdoor wear is very available down here in these parts, too. Lots of clothing drives also provide them for families who can't afford to buy new ones, or even for kids who just keep losing their mittens and hats. Clearly you are not "outdoor people" but that doesn't mean your kids wouldn't benefit from more outdoor time; and maybe they could learn to keep warm like "those Canadian kids" by running around, playing, even just walking laps.

COVID doesn't even need to be part of this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe some of you have personality disorders or are otherwise sociopaths.

You got your wish for schools to re-open. Now you are bitc*ing about mitigation efforts? Your child is not going to die eating outside in mild weather you jerk.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's winter time, vaccines are widely available for kids, and families having been dining indoors at restaurants since June 2020, but our kids are forced to eat outside at APS like prisoners. It's really beyond absurd.

My family dines in at family restaurants throughout Arlington, and we often see other APS families (and say hi). The vast majority of families are doing indoor playdates and birthday parties. Why is the burden being put on the least at risk members of this society (kids)? This charade has to stop.

APS has to create policies that take into account the risk to the kids AND the risk to staff AND the constraints of physical space AND the constraints of budget AND liability of getting sued AND a ton of other factors.

Let's say that you are 100% correct about the actual risk of covid to a young child being less than other risks. OK, that is one factor. The cost of staffing two spaces with lunch monitors and the ability to hire double the staff on short notice so that your child can choose where to eat? Well, that's another factor, and maybe that one doesn't cut in the direction of making outdoor lunch optional. Did you even think of the costs of your proposal? The risk of infection to the adults in the building who have diabetes and haven't been mandated to get boosters so they are only protected at around 50% from hospitalization against the delta variant and so therefore may have a chance of dying because your child infected them? That's yet another factor to take into the equation. Did you think of health care costs to APS when many teachers are hospitalized on their employer's health insurance? Did you think about that? What about the disruption to the classroom with lengthy teacher absences as they recuperate? Where's that in your equation?

You are acting like the world revolves around just you. It does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For ES I can see how schools would have everyone doing the same thing -- either indoor or outdoor. There's not enough staff to manage kids at different locations from the same classroom. I'm not worried about my kids getting covid if eating indoors, so wouldn't be upset if the schools moved lunch back inside. However, I actually do like the kids eating lunch outdoors. Maybe a certain temperature threshold needs to be set, no precipitation, no wind over X miles per hour, etc. I'm all for my kids getting more sunshine and fresh air during the day, not concerning covid at all.

APS already has weather parameters for outdoor recess. I'm sure the same holds for eating outside during lunch period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly believe some of you have personality disorders or are otherwise sociopaths.

You got your wish for schools to re-open. Now you are bitc*ing about mitigation efforts? Your child is not going to die eating outside in mild weather you jerk.

Exactly. Kids are back in person. Outdoor lunches and masks help keep numbers low and prevent spread/quarantines. Let’s keep it that way. We ALL want our kids in person as much as possible now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Properly manage risks? People are dining indoors now (without any distancing requirements) and schools are open...riddle me that. You do understand that COVID risk is age stratified right? If a 65 year old can eat indoors, why can't a 7 year old? That 65 year old, even if triple vaxxed, has a higher risk than the 7 year old. This is all illogical and irrational and so are your arguments that eating indoors last summer somehow made schools close. What a jump.

Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

There are things we can do to reduce community transmission and you are pushing for the OPPOSITE.

Stop being spiteful and let kids eat outdoors FFS. We've had great weather so not even sure why this is a complaint.

COVID will be here forever, and there are vaccines available. Putting onerous burdens on only kids is absolutely absurd. Considering how effective vaccines are, counting cases at this point is so ridiculous.

But if people want to do these things on their own, have at it. It's the point though that you're forcing your own very warped view of morality down our kids' throats. Avoidance of a virus that will be here for the rest of our lives at all costs is a few Arlingtonian's version of bible-thumping, evangelical Christianity (both think they must force them on other people, whether they want it or not).

Gosh, is your kid really such a privileged snowflake that he or she can't eat outside in dry mid Atlantic weather? You consider being outside when it's in the 40s to be "onerous"? Get some perspective.

DP, but... why? There's no reason to keep doing it when it's uncomfortable and we have vaccines.

Have you ever been in an elementary school cafeteria? It's one of the most uncomfortable places on the planet. Many kids struggle with the noise and the smell and the lack of personal space.

Outdoor lunch is more comfortable for the vast majority of kids. They did indoor lunch because it was cheaper staffing wise. Now covid has led something else, but arguing that we should go back to indoor lunch because it's more comfortable? It's like you're from another planet