Someone posted 50 percent of HS Seniors have a 4.0?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

What use is that to you? Other than justified pride, which is ok by me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

What use is that to you? Other than justified pride, which is ok by me!

I am asking for use in applying to college It is so competitive. If there are 400 kids in DCs class....they report 1 and 2 and then it is a black hole. IF they only say a student is in top 10 percent that is fine but that is 40 kids....why not be kid 4 instead of 40? It is just another lottel piece of info but dont see how it would hurt. It seems to be ok help the first 2 kids so why not others as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

What use is that to you? Other than justified pride, which is ok by me!

I am asking for use in applying to college It is so competitive. If there are 400 kids in DCs class....they report 1 and 2 and then it is a black hole. IF they only say a student is in top 10 percent that is fine but that is 40 kids....why not be kid 4 instead of 40? It is just another lottel piece of info but dont see how it would hurt. It seems to be ok help the first 2 kids so why not others as well?

I doubt there is a meaningful difference between 4 and 40 for the college, especially if the variance in grades is small. Either kid will be able to do the work, which is what they are looking for, then they look to essays and other factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

What use is that to you? Other than justified pride, which is ok by me!

I am asking for use in applying to college It is so competitive. If there are 400 kids in DCs class....they report 1 and 2 and then it is a black hole. IF they only say a student is in top 10 percent that is fine but that is 40 kids....why not be kid 4 instead of 40? It is just another lottel piece of info but dont see how it would hurt. It seems to be ok help the first 2 kids so why not others as well?

And you plan to report this information on the college application yourself? I would strongly advise against that but of course please ask those you trust before you do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

What use is that to you? Other than justified pride, which is ok by me!

I am asking for use in applying to college It is so competitive. If there are 400 kids in DCs class....they report 1 and 2 and then it is a black hole. IF they only say a student is in top 10 percent that is fine but that is 40 kids....why not be kid 4 instead of 40? It is just another lottel piece of info but dont see how it would hurt. It seems to be ok help the first 2 kids so why not others as well?

I doubt there is a meaningful difference between 4 and 40 for the college, especially if the variance in grades is small. Either kid will be able to do the work, which is what they are looking for, then they look to essays and other factors.

Not sure. It is an academic rank that just comes from a math calculation. It seemed to be important to be top 2 so it just seems so arbitrary that 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 etc. would not have some meaning, even if it is not critical, it seem to have some significance.

[Anonymous]

GPA is not a standardized metric, period. We need to stop pretending that it is.

Do colleges treat it as standardized? I don't know, though the degree to which they rely on GPA, and even grades more broadly, will vary by college. It's just not a useful comparison between students. Perhaps colleges do have some minimum they look for in terms of grades and rigor, and then move on, though meeting a minimum qualification bar does not reveal which students are more academically (or intellectually) skilled than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

What use is that to you? Other than justified pride, which is ok by me!

I am asking for use in applying to college It is so competitive. If there are 400 kids in DCs class....they report 1 and 2 and then it is a black hole. IF they only say a student is in top 10 percent that is fine but that is 40 kids....why not be kid 4 instead of 40? It is just another lottel piece of info but dont see how it would hurt. It seems to be ok help the first 2 kids so why not others as well?

I doubt there is a meaningful difference between 4 and 40 for the college, especially if the variance in grades is small. Either kid will be able to do the work, which is what they are looking for, then they look to essays and other factors.

Not sure. It is an academic rank that just comes from a math calculation. It seemed to be important to be top 2 so it just seems so arbitrary that 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 etc. would not have some meaning, even if it is not critical, it seem to have some significance.

Without knowing the data and the metrics, the ranking is arbitrary to a degree. If everyone took exactly the same curriculum it would be less so, but they don't and can't. This is why most HS don't do that kind of ranking anymore and why colleges don't find them particularly useful in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GPA is not a standardized metric, period. We need to stop pretending that it is.

Do colleges treat it as standardized? I don't know, though the degree to which they rely on GPA, and even grades more broadly, will vary by college. It's just not a useful comparison between students. Perhaps colleges do have some minimum they look for in terms of grades and rigor, and then move on, though meeting a minimum qualification bar does not reveal which students are more academically (or intellectually) skilled than others.

My kid went to a private with no APs and no weighting. The school assured us that the Adcomms would know the school and adjust accordingly. That seemed to play out in the admissions process. People seemed to end up where you thought they would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GPA is not a standardized metric, period. We need to stop pretending that it is.

Do colleges treat it as standardized? I don't know, though the degree to which they rely on GPA, and even grades more broadly, will vary by college. It's just not a useful comparison between students. Perhaps colleges do have some minimum they look for in terms of grades and rigor, and then move on, though meeting a minimum qualification bar does not reveal which students are more academically (or intellectually) skilled than others.

At my DS's school, there is a lot of "completion" homework or homework that is not difficult. What's difficult and graded in a less forgiving way, are the papers and tests. If you're doing what is expected (keeping up, listening in class, turning in your work on time), you should be able to get a B in a standard (not AP) class. It's hard to get an A, and the classes are challenging across the board. For example, DS's highest grade right now is math, but he's really struggling with the expectations in language arts.

I don't know how other schools do it, but that's just one example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.

Unofficial in that the school does not report it. But obviously they calculate it so I just asked for it.

What use is that to you? Other than justified pride, which is ok by me!

I am asking for use in applying to college It is so competitive. If there are 400 kids in DCs class....they report 1 and 2 and then it is a black hole. IF they only say a student is in top 10 percent that is fine but that is 40 kids....why not be kid 4 instead of 40? It is just another lottel piece of info but dont see how it would hurt. It seems to be ok help the first 2 kids so why not others as well?

I doubt there is a meaningful difference between 4 and 40 for the college, especially if the variance in grades is small. Either kid will be able to do the work, which is what they are looking for, then they look to essays and other factors.

Not sure. It is an academic rank that just comes from a math calculation. It seemed to be important to be top 2 so it just seems so arbitrary that 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 etc. would not have some meaning, even if it is not critical, it seem to have some significance.

Without knowing the data and the metrics, the ranking is arbitrary to a degree. If everyone took exactly the same curriculum it would be less so, but they don't and can't. This is why most HS don't do that kind of ranking anymore and why colleges don't find them particularly useful in admissions.

I agree it is fairly arbitrary. But one year, one of my older children was given an official rank that might have helped gain admittance to a top school that is difficult to access. I had not really though about it much until then but was that fair? Did it help? If so, why cant other kids get help from this arbitrary system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree it is fairly arbitrary. But one year, one of my older children was given an official rank that might have helped gain admittance to a top school that is difficult to access. I had not really though about it much until then but was that fair? Did it help? If so, why cant other kids get help from this arbitrary system?

Because it is arbitrary, as you admit, and therefore unreliable. Additionally, since it is a zero sum game, if it "helps" one kid it "hurts" another, and why would anyone want an admittedly arbitrary standard to hurt anyone and be unfair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree it is fairly arbitrary. But one year, one of my older children was given an official rank that might have helped gain admittance to a top school that is difficult to access. I had not really though about it much until then but was that fair? Did it help? If so, why cant other kids get help from this arbitrary system?

Because it is arbitrary, as you admit, and therefore unreliable. Additionally, since it is a zero sum game, if it "helps" one kid it "hurts" another, and why would anyone want an admittedly arbitrary standard to hurt anyone and be unfair?

I don't want that but don't hate the player, hate the game. Why are they only officially ranking a few top students? I can not control that that is done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why standardized testing is so important….it provides and objective assessment of intellect. Only the dumbs oppose them.

I am a supporter of standarized testing but not sure if it's an assessment of intellect. Assessment of knowledge maybe.

DP. More like assessment of prepping skills.

[Anonymous]

I taught community college (political science) for eight years pre-covid. Plagiarism was rampant among a certain percentage of students. Prob 30%-40%. Maybe more now.

Some of these students lacked direction or motivation. (They should not have been in college at all but their parents pressured them.) Others didn't receive the education they deserved in high school and just panicked. I had students who graduated HS with straight As who could not write a complete sentence.

Grade inflation is very, very real. And it does nothing but harm kids.