Someone posted 50 percent of HS Seniors have a 4.0?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most have OVER a 4.0. AP classes are weighted higher. W-L had 260+ valedictorians last year (in a class of 500ish). Valedictorian being anything over a 4.0.

Sorry to burst the bubble of the cheater posters.

They should use the unweighted GPA.

That is a terrible idea. That just discourages students from taking challenging courses so they can get high grades in easier levels.

You know that most competitive colleges do use unweighted and have a second variable for rigor, right?

This is because HS weighting metrics are very varied (and some don't weight at all) so this method is a common denominator.

So they already do this.

A second variable for rigor is the same as weighting difficult classes. I see no difference in weighting the classes before you send the application off to the admissions committee or if they do it after they get it.

Are you the PP who objected with "That is a terrible idea" above?

They get it all, the raw grades and the weighted and unweighted GPAs.

The weighted GPA is variable depending how the HS does it. Some are on a 5 point scale, most in 4. Some don't give a bump for AP over honors although most do. Some don't weight at all, like the top 10 magnet school in my area.

So there is a potential huge difference between the weighted GPA sent from the HS and the one calculated by the adcoms. Not all competitive colleges do it the same way, but generally this is how it is done, and any book written by an ex-adcom from a top college will explain this in detail if you are interested in learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why standardized testing is so important….it provides and objective assessment of intellect. Only the dumbs oppose them.

I am a supporter of standarized testing but not sure if it's an assessment of intellect. Assessment of knowledge maybe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is some cheating, but my kid has to claw and fight for every "A" he gets and does not cheat--he has said that he catches other kids trying to look at his answers. He goes to a private school, if that matters-- although I think cheating happens everywhere.

He recently turned in a partner project where he did all the work and had to put his partner's name on the final result. I can verify that because he spent an entire weekend stressing/doing the whole thing. I told him "that's life-- you'll have all kinds of people who won't pull their weight, and you just need to learn who they and deal with it."

There is a lot of pressure placed on kids now-- I can imagine why they feel they must resort to cheating.

Group projects always have different levels of contribution to the final project and that is life. I am sure teachers intentionally pair weaker students with stronger for many of these projects..i would do the same. It is a learning opportunity all the way around.

I have seen parent march up to the school and demand that their snowflake be placed with other strong students. Very short sighted approach IMO.

PP here-- I agree with you. My DS said he knew the kid wasn't going to contribute, and I told him that if he already knew that, he should have planned for it and started earlier. I would have been more upset on his behalf if they didn't have a lot of time...but one didn't work (and that was known) and the other put it off...so there you go. Now DS has the same kid for another project due this week-- that is kind of p*ssing me off. It's a shorter turnaround and DS is having to go in early and stay late to get it done + finals, quizzes, ECs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Is there a metric that publicizes the AP test scores for each AP course vs the average class grade? I assume regional admission officers compare these numbers for applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is true at ALL schools by far, but at certain schools?

My kid is at a wealthy public school outside of Richmond and in a specialty center within that school, and I would wager to bet around at least 1/3 of his class has a 4.0 or higher. I'm sure that 75% of the kids in his program do.

My kid currently has a weighted 4.42 GPA, and that's not bragging because I doubt he's even in the top 50 of his class. I don't think it's generally because of cheating (although I heard lots of rumors about cheating during online school), and I don't see that his classes are easy. Certainly not easier than I remember my classes being.

I think there is just a lot more pressure now, and I think parents--including myself--contribute to it because we're so freaked out about our kids getting into college. And obviously because honors classes, dual enrollment and APs increase the GPA. I think I took 2 AP classes in high school, back in the early 90s. And that wasn't weird. I might have taken a few more if I'd been good in science and math. There just weren't that many that were offered at my school. My kid will probably have taken 11 by the end of high school--and he did a dual enrollment for Econ, AND almost all of his other classes are honors classes, which are weighted higher too.

Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is some cheating, but my kid has to claw and fight for every "A" he gets and does not cheat--he has said that he catches other kids trying to look at his answers. He goes to a private school, if that matters-- although I think cheating happens everywhere.

He recently turned in a partner project where he did all the work and had to put his partner's name on the final result. I can verify that because he spent an entire weekend stressing/doing the whole thing. I told him "that's life-- you'll have all kinds of people who won't pull their weight, and you just need to learn who they and deal with it."

There is a lot of pressure placed on kids now-- I can imagine why they feel they must resort to cheating.

Group projects always have different levels of contribution to the final project and that is life. I am sure teachers intentionally pair weaker students with stronger for many of these projects..i would do the same. It is a learning opportunity all the way around.

I have seen parent march up to the school and demand that their snowflake be placed with other strong students. Very short sighted approach IMO.

PP here-- I agree with you. My DS said he knew the kid wasn't going to contribute, and I told him that if he already knew that, he should have planned for it and started earlier. I would have been more upset on his behalf if they didn't have a lot of time...but one didn't work (and that was known) and the other put it off...so there you go. Now DS has the same kid for another project due this week-- that is kind of p*ssing me off. It's a shorter turnaround and DS is having to go in early and stay late to get it done + finals, quizzes, ECs, etc.

It pissed me off too because it is not fair but life is not fair. Better to be capable of handling the work load then only be capable of a lesser contribution. I just realized that it was my Dc's fate ot generally be paired with weakere students for the duration. DC ended up making a lot of money tutoring later in HS so being able to patiently teach peers has benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is some cheating, but my kid has to claw and fight for every "A" he gets and does not cheat--he has said that he catches other kids trying to look at his answers. He goes to a private school, if that matters-- although I think cheating happens everywhere.

He recently turned in a partner project where he did all the work and had to put his partner's name on the final result. I can verify that because he spent an entire weekend stressing/doing the whole thing. I told him "that's life-- you'll have all kinds of people who won't pull their weight, and you just need to learn who they and deal with it."

There is a lot of pressure placed on kids now-- I can imagine why they feel they must resort to cheating.

Group projects always have different levels of contribution to the final project and that is life. I am sure teachers intentionally pair weaker students with stronger for many of these projects..i would do the same. It is a learning opportunity all the way around.

I have seen parent march up to the school and demand that their snowflake be placed with other strong students. Very short sighted approach IMO.

My kids are straight A kids. They are in the habit of doing their entire Group Project by themselves because they know that the other students will either not do their work or will do shoddy work. My kids don't care if underserving students in their group also get an A. They are focused on themselves. Many a times they will complete the project way ahead of time and email to the rest of the group and NO ONE ever gives any feedback on what needs to be improved etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

Can you get the School Profile from the counselor? How do you get your hands on this report.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is some cheating, but my kid has to claw and fight for every "A" he gets and does not cheat--he has said that he catches other kids trying to look at his answers. He goes to a private school, if that matters-- although I think cheating happens everywhere.

He recently turned in a partner project where he did all the work and had to put his partner's name on the final result. I can verify that because he spent an entire weekend stressing/doing the whole thing. I told him "that's life-- you'll have all kinds of people who won't pull their weight, and you just need to learn who they and deal with it."

There is a lot of pressure placed on kids now-- I can imagine why they feel they must resort to cheating.

Group projects always have different levels of contribution to the final project and that is life. I am sure teachers intentionally pair weaker students with stronger for many of these projects..i would do the same. It is a learning opportunity all the way around.

I have seen parent march up to the school and demand that their snowflake be placed with other strong students. Very short sighted approach IMO.

My kids are straight A kids. They are in the habit of doing their entire Group Project by themselves because they know that the other students will either not do their work or will do shoddy work. My kids don't care if underserving students in their group also get an A. They are focused on themselves. Many a times they will complete the project way ahead of time and email to the rest of the group and NO ONE ever gives any feedback on what needs to be improved etc.

pp here-- good for your kids. If you read my post you can see that no one is complaining about it and understand that getting stuck with all the work is sometimes a part of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

Can you get the School Profile from the counselor? How do you get your hands on this report.

You definitely can get it from the counselor but many HS have them on their website. Some have multiple years which is informative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just request the rank. It helps sort out this issue. It does not need to be reported down to a single number . Your student can report they are top 3 percent, or 5 percent or 7 percent or whatever. Common ap offer no differentiation smaller than top 10 percent which can be dozens of kids in a large class and not that helpful to the higher ranked students.

This should be determinable quickly by looking at the profile from your HS sent to all colleges.

Here is a sample:

https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/counseling/profile/sample

IF 36 kids are getting a 4.0 or higher - is not it helpful to be in the top 5 of those 36 than in the bottom 5?

Of course, but many HS don't rank that way anymore. I can tell you why if you are interested but you probably know already.

If a kid in that group is exceptional, the guidance counselor and teachers' recommendations will communicate that better than a ranking.

Is there anything wrong with reporting an unofficial ranking? Our HS does rank the students because they want to have a valedictorian and salutatorian.

How could there be such a thing as an unofficial ranking? Once someone qualified says there is a ranking, then there is a ranking.