School reform ( NOT demographic change) drove achievement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people on this thread arguing with Muriel and her various deputy mayors. These are the only people who would sit and defend this sham.

So...are you talking about test scores? Or the study?

Are you admitting you are Muriel or a deputy mayor?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So there's no way to tell if the growth in scores from Black and Hispanic students has to do with higher income Black and Hispanic students moving to DC. Ok then. Thanks, mathematicians, for providing useful propaganda for the Mayor. I guess that's what you got paid for.

So your theory is that we have an influx of UMC Black and Hispanic students flooding into DC? Seems unlikely but OK.

There's definitely some. How big of an influx do you need to skew the results? How big of an "improvement" was actually shown?

And to add, it's not my theory. My only theory is that this "study" is propaganda that doesn't appropriately define or address the issue but instead dresses up the desired conclusion in a veneer of respectability, which is shameful.

1. Test scores aren't a great measure.
2. Schools aren't the only thing that affects test scores.
3. Mayoral control vs. school board: where's the causal analysis to determine that was the cause and not "strong leadership and investment in education" regardless of the governance structure.

“It’s propaganda!” “Test scores don’t matter!”

So you think standardized test scores are an appropriate measure? Consider why.

why don’t you consider why not? because it’s obvious as f to the rest of us.

Because standardized testing is rooted in white supremacy and measures poverty, which is highly correlated with race especially in DC (see white supremacy again) rather than academic ability.

Fill in the blank: I recommend.......................to measure academic ability. No time limit.

I recommend not one single metric to measure academic ability.

I'm sorry that you feel that you need one to justify your career.

That was a dodge. Sent back for further elaboration. Scaffolding: In order to measure the success or failure of educational programming, I recommend several metrics to measure academic success. For example......

No, it's telling you that your whole system is hosed.

What do people value and what should their kids be learning? You think that math and ELA scores are the end all be all and I think that's ridiculous.

feel free to unschool your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people on this thread arguing with Muriel and her various deputy mayors. These are the only people who would sit and defend this sham.

So...are you talking about test scores? Or the study?

Are you admitting you are Muriel or a deputy mayor?

omg. take your meds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people on this thread arguing with Muriel and her various deputy mayors. These are the only people who would sit and defend this sham.

So...are you talking about test scores? Or the study?

Are you admitting you are Muriel or a deputy mayor?

omg. take your meds.

Ok Furbee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A major problem with this study and the Post report is that both assume that African American students comprise a low-income monolith.
The District has been losing lower income African American residents for nearly two decades now. This has increased the percentage of Black D.C. residents who are upper income. In other words, in D.C., the educational and economic demographics within the race have changed. This undoubtedly contributes to the higher average scores of African American students.

I can't help but notice whenever positive statistics about African American is released, white people rush to refute it.

It's fascinating because this is never done to other demographics especially asians.

The bias towards African Americans is strong AF.

+1 anti-reform / anti-charter folks *think* they are social justice warriors, but are more committed to their own personal pet theories than any actual improvements for students of any race.

Clearly social justice is achieved by paying sketchy private ed organizations like Ten Square to help charter schools juke their stats is the real deal and truly helps kids learn. That's why the achievement gap has narrowed so quickly.

It’s 2021. Your paranoid anti-charter screeds have no persuasive power. We know it’s just more teachers union nonsense.

[Anonymous]

I'm lost as to why this got so nasty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm lost as to why this got so nasty.

the anti-reform set is very shrill and desperate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty clear that a public service as vital and complex as schools needs a single point of contact for administration and legal control. An elected school board seems like a HORRIBLE way to oversee schools. The exact opposite of what we need.

Charter schools definitely seem to have proven themselves in DC. But, it does seem undeniable that they hollow out neighborhood schools.

Where do you see that pattern? Can you name schools that have been "hollowed out" by charters?

DCPS was a mess long before charters.

This. Performance, safety concerns and limited programming/courses are what hollowed out many schools. Charters made it possible for many families to return to the city and for others to stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A major problem with this study and the Post report is that both assume that African American students comprise a low-income monolith.
The District has been losing lower income African American residents for nearly two decades now. This has increased the percentage of Black D.C. residents who are upper income. In other words, in D.C., the educational and economic demographics within the race have changed. This undoubtedly contributes to the higher average scores of African American students.

I can't help but notice whenever positive statistics about African American is released, white people rush to refute it.

It's fascinating because this is never done to other demographics especially asians.

The bias towards African Americans is strong AF.

I don't think pointing out that demographic shifts may still be responsible is a bias against African Americans. Quite the opposite. Treating all African Americans in this city as one type of student, or not recognizing that some African American students are wealthy is a bias against African Americans. I wish this study had accounted for income, because then we could see how effective (or not) school reform and charters were at improving education outcomes for low income and at risk students, but instead it lumps people together just by race, baking in whatever assumptions come with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty clear that a public service as vital and complex as schools needs a single point of contact for administration and legal control. An elected school board seems like a HORRIBLE way to oversee schools. The exact opposite of what we need.

Charter schools definitely seem to have proven themselves in DC. But, it does seem undeniable that they hollow out neighborhood schools.

Where do you see that pattern? Can you name schools that have been "hollowed out" by charters?

DCPS was a mess long before charters.

This. Performance, safety concerns and limited programming/courses are what hollowed out many schools. Charters made it possible for many families to return to the city and for others to stay.

I think it's possible for both of the PPs here to be right. In some instances, charters are a great resource, and historically very important to give parents/students options (other than moving) when the neighborhood school was crumbling. BUT it is also true, especially in Ward 5 and Brookland and Shaw, that a few "HRCs" siphon off the UMC parents from neighborhood schools. We can argue about the effect of that (the school is less reflective of the neighborhood, but arguably having rich white kids at a school, on its own, does not change the education that any one student might receive there; maybe all the corporate shrills pull their kids into charters but the hip parents go with the DCPS (joking, mostly); the value and ethos of a rich PTA, etc.), but it is still happening. Just look at the demographics in the DCPS schools in these areas of the upper grades as compared to the PK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty clear that a public service as vital and complex as schools needs a single point of contact for administration and legal control. An elected school board seems like a HORRIBLE way to oversee schools. The exact opposite of what we need.

Charter schools definitely seem to have proven themselves in DC. But, it does seem undeniable that they hollow out neighborhood schools.

Where do you see that pattern? Can you name schools that have been "hollowed out" by charters?

DCPS was a mess long before charters.

This. Performance, safety concerns and limited programming/courses are what hollowed out many schools. Charters made it possible for many families to return to the city and for others to stay.

I think it's possible for both of the PPs here to be right. In some instances, charters are a great resource, and historically very important to give parents/students options (other than moving) when the neighborhood school was crumbling. BUT it is also true, especially in Ward 5 and Brookland and Shaw, that a few "HRCs" siphon off the UMC parents from neighborhood schools. We can argue about the effect of that (the school is less reflective of the neighborhood, but arguably having rich white kids at a school, on its own, does not change the education that any one student might receive there; maybe all the corporate shrills pull their kids into charters but the hip parents go with the DCPS (joking, mostly); the value and ethos of a rich PTA, etc.), but it is still happening. Just look at the demographics in the DCPS schools in these areas of the upper grades as compared to the PK.

Nobody is right about charters hollowing out neighborhood schools in general. There is just no evidence of this. It's just a thing people say.

[Anonymous]

I don't know who Mathematica is, but I do remember the Resistance to charters. I don't think any one thing led to schools in the District improving, but the competition and innovation of charters certainly was part of the zeitgeist of improved school choice and offerings in a way, it made all schools have to step up a little.. Something very poorly explained in the article was how much results have improved. My understanding is there is STILL a fairly large achievement gap, and poorer outcomes for low SES overall .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people on this thread arguing with Muriel and her various deputy mayors. These are the only people who would sit and defend this sham.

Lol, to make them feel bad about their ghoulish policies?

Well that seems a little overwrought

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people on this thread arguing with Muriel and her various deputy mayors. These are the only people who would sit and defend this sham.

So...are you talking about test scores? Or the study?

Are you admitting you are Muriel or a deputy mayor?

omg. take your meds.

Ok Furbee

you are a strange person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are people on this thread arguing with Muriel and her various deputy mayors. These are the only people who would sit and defend this sham.

Lol, to make them feel bad about their ghoulish policies?

Well that seems a little overwrought

Not when you consider the amount of $$ poured down the drain of "Ed reformers"