School reform ( NOT demographic change) drove achievement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's no way to tell if the growth in scores from Black and Hispanic students has to do with higher income Black and Hispanic students moving to DC. Ok then. Thanks, mathematicians, for providing useful propaganda for the Mayor. I guess that's what you got paid for.

So your theory is that we have an influx of UMC Black and Hispanic students flooding into DC? Seems unlikely but OK.

There's definitely some. How big of an influx do you need to skew the results? How big of an "improvement" was actually shown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's no way to tell if the growth in scores from Black and Hispanic students has to do with higher income Black and Hispanic students moving to DC. Ok then. Thanks, mathematicians, for providing useful propaganda for the Mayor. I guess that's what you got paid for.

So your theory is that we have an influx of UMC Black and Hispanic students flooding into DC? Seems unlikely but OK.

There's definitely some. How big of an influx do you need to skew the results? How big of an "improvement" was actually shown?

And to add, it's not my theory. My only theory is that this "study" is propaganda that doesn't appropriately define or address the issue but instead dresses up the desired conclusion in a veneer of respectability, which is shameful.

1. Test scores aren't a great measure.
2. Schools aren't the only thing that affects test scores.
3. Mayoral control vs. school board: where's the causal analysis to determine that was the cause and not "strong leadership and investment in education" regardless of the governance structure.

[Anonymous]

The PP did not state there was an "influx." She wrote that lower income African Americans have been moving out of D.C. for 20 years now. This leaves a higher *percentage* of Black residents who are upper income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's no way to tell if the growth in scores from Black and Hispanic students has to do with higher income Black and Hispanic students moving to DC. Ok then. Thanks, mathematicians, for providing useful propaganda for the Mayor. I guess that's what you got paid for.

So your theory is that we have an influx of UMC Black and Hispanic students flooding into DC? Seems unlikely but OK.

There's definitely some. How big of an influx do you need to skew the results? How big of an "improvement" was actually shown?

And to add, it's not my theory. My only theory is that this "study" is propaganda that doesn't appropriately define or address the issue but instead dresses up the desired conclusion in a veneer of respectability, which is shameful.

1. Test scores aren't a great measure.
2. Schools aren't the only thing that affects test scores.
3. Mayoral control vs. school board: where's the causal analysis to determine that was the cause and not "strong leadership and investment in education" regardless of the governance structure.

Fair enough--there seems to be some puffery. But it's enough to push back against the idea that mayoral control, charter expansion and other school reform efforts have somehow harmed students in DC

[Anonymous]

It seems like they are celebrating less horrible results rather than focusing on just how bad they still are, but ok. Reform won, everything is fine

[Anonymous]

We could do a lot more to reduce poverty in DC that would have a much bigger impact than who controls the school system. But that's not in line with the current conservative administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty clear that a public service as vital and complex as schools needs a single point of contact for administration and legal control. An elected school board seems like a HORRIBLE way to oversee schools. The exact opposite of what we need.

Charter schools definitely seem to have proven themselves in DC. But, it does seem undeniable that they hollow out neighborhood schools.

I'll deny it right here:

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in SY 2011-12: 45,191

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in SY 2019-20: 51,036

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in pandemic year 2020-21 slightly down: 49,890

It is *undeniable* that both charter and DCPS sectors have grown and improved over the last decade.

https://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

Do they break this out by individual school? Sure, the overall population has grown but which schools are over-enrolled and which schools are under-enrolled ( hollowed out)?

I don't mean necessarily by enrollment size, but by the cohort of grade-level kids and parents with resources to improve the schools that are siphoned off to charters. We talk about this ALL THE TIME here wrt Ward 6. I don't necessarily think this is a negative overall (I'm definitely considering charter options) but we see in Ward 6 that the charter pathway hollows out the neighborhood MS and HS without at doubt.

I wish people would check their facts before saying something like this

2011-12 enrollment audit

Stuart Hobson MS: 403
Eliot-Hine MS: 348
Jefferson Academy + Middle School: 263
Eastern HS: 303

2019-20 enrollment audit

Stuart Hobson MS: increase to 487
Eliot Hine: overall decrease to 262 ( but this is an increase from 209 in 2015-16)
Jefferson Academy: increase to 353
Eastern HS: increase to 792

Check your facts. Don't believe everything you casually hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like they are celebrating less horrible results rather than focusing on just how bad they still are, but ok. Reform won, everything is fine

As noted in the Post editorial:

"There is, of course, still much work to be done. Most students are still not proficient in reading and math, and the impacts of covid-19 have been devastating, putting students even further behind."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We could do a lot more to reduce poverty in DC that would have a much bigger impact than who controls the school system. But that's not in line with the current conservative administration.

That would impact stats. But not the students in the schools right now. Who controls the school system and makes day-to-day decisions is crucial for current students. They aren't stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's no way to tell if the growth in scores from Black and Hispanic students has to do with higher income Black and Hispanic students moving to DC. Ok then. Thanks, mathematicians, for providing useful propaganda for the Mayor. I guess that's what you got paid for.

So your theory is that we have an influx of UMC Black and Hispanic students flooding into DC? Seems unlikely but OK.

There's definitely some. How big of an influx do you need to skew the results? How big of an "improvement" was actually shown?

And to add, it's not my theory. My only theory is that this "study" is propaganda that doesn't appropriately define or address the issue but instead dresses up the desired conclusion in a veneer of respectability, which is shameful.

1. Test scores aren't a great measure.
2. Schools aren't the only thing that affects test scores.
3. Mayoral control vs. school board: where's the causal analysis to determine that was the cause and not "strong leadership and investment in education" regardless of the governance structure.

“It’s propaganda!” “Test scores don’t matter!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty clear that a public service as vital and complex as schools needs a single point of contact for administration and legal control. An elected school board seems like a HORRIBLE way to oversee schools. The exact opposite of what we need.

Charter schools definitely seem to have proven themselves in DC. But, it does seem undeniable that they hollow out neighborhood schools.

I'll deny it right here:

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in SY 2011-12: 45,191

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in SY 2019-20: 51,036

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in pandemic year 2020-21 slightly down: 49,890

It is *undeniable* that both charter and DCPS sectors have grown and improved over the last decade.

https://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

Do they break this out by individual school? Sure, the overall population has grown but which schools are over-enrolled and which schools are under-enrolled ( hollowed out)?

I don't mean necessarily by enrollment size, but by the cohort of grade-level kids and parents with resources to improve the schools that are siphoned off to charters. We talk about this ALL THE TIME here wrt Ward 6. I don't necessarily think this is a negative overall (I'm definitely considering charter options) but we see in Ward 6 that the charter pathway hollows out the neighborhood MS and HS without at doubt.

I wish people would check their facts before saying something like this

2011-12 enrollment audit

Stuart Hobson MS: 403
Eliot-Hine MS: 348
Jefferson Academy + Middle School: 263
Eastern HS: 303

2019-20 enrollment audit

Stuart Hobson MS: increase to 487
Eliot Hine: overall decrease to 262 ( but this is an increase from 209 in 2015-16)
Jefferson Academy: increase to 353
Eastern HS: increase to 792

Check your facts. Don't believe everything you casually hear.

look, I’m dealing with this right now - 50% of our 4th grade class will peel off to go to a charter instead of IB MS. Every single year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's pretty clear that a public service as vital and complex as schools needs a single point of contact for administration and legal control. An elected school board seems like a HORRIBLE way to oversee schools. The exact opposite of what we need.

Charter schools definitely seem to have proven themselves in DC. But, it does seem undeniable that they hollow out neighborhood schools.

I'll deny it right here:

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in SY 2011-12: 45,191

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in SY 2019-20: 51,036

DCPS ( neighborhood schools ) enrollment in pandemic year 2020-21 slightly down: 49,890

It is *undeniable* that both charter and DCPS sectors have grown and improved over the last decade.

https://dcps.dc.gov/page/dcps-glance-enrollment

Do they break this out by individual school? Sure, the overall population has grown but which schools are over-enrolled and which schools are under-enrolled ( hollowed out)?

I don't mean necessarily by enrollment size, but by the cohort of grade-level kids and parents with resources to improve the schools that are siphoned off to charters. We talk about this ALL THE TIME here wrt Ward 6. I don't necessarily think this is a negative overall (I'm definitely considering charter options) but we see in Ward 6 that the charter pathway hollows out the neighborhood MS and HS without at doubt.

I wish people would check their facts before saying something like this

2011-12 enrollment audit

Stuart Hobson MS: 403
Eliot-Hine MS: 348
Jefferson Academy + Middle School: 263
Eastern HS: 303

2019-20 enrollment audit

Stuart Hobson MS: increase to 487
Eliot Hine: overall decrease to 262 ( but this is an increase from 209 in 2015-16)
Jefferson Academy: increase to 353
Eastern HS: increase to 792

Check your facts. Don't believe everything you casually hear.

look, I’m dealing with this right now - 50% of our 4th grade class will peel off to go to a charter instead of IB MS. Every single year.

And? So what? Does not support the conclusion that "neighborhood schools are being hollowed out". Say what you really mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A major problem with this study and the Post report is that both assume that African American students comprise a low-income monolith.
The District has been losing lower income African American residents for nearly two decades now. This has increased the percentage of Black D.C. residents who are upper income. In other words, in D.C., the educational and economic demographics within the race have changed. This undoubtedly contributes to the higher average scores of African American students.

I can't help but notice whenever positive statistics about African American is released, white people rush to refute it.

It's fascinating because this is never done to other demographics especially asians.

The bias towards African Americans is strong AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A major problem with this study and the Post report is that both assume that African American students comprise a low-income monolith.
The District has been losing lower income African American residents for nearly two decades now. This has increased the percentage of Black D.C. residents who are upper income. In other words, in D.C., the educational and economic demographics within the race have changed. This undoubtedly contributes to the higher average scores of African American students.

I can't help but notice whenever positive statistics about African American is released, white people rush to refute it.

It's fascinating because this is never done to other demographics especially asians.

The bias towards African Americans is strong AF.

+1 anti-reform / anti-charter folks *think* they are social justice warriors, but are more committed to their own personal pet theories than any actual improvements for students of any race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there's no way to tell if the growth in scores from Black and Hispanic students has to do with higher income Black and Hispanic students moving to DC. Ok then. Thanks, mathematicians, for providing useful propaganda for the Mayor. I guess that's what you got paid for.

So your theory is that we have an influx of UMC Black and Hispanic students flooding into DC? Seems unlikely but OK.

There's definitely some. How big of an influx do you need to skew the results? How big of an "improvement" was actually shown?

And to add, it's not my theory. My only theory is that this "study" is propaganda that doesn't appropriately define or address the issue but instead dresses up the desired conclusion in a veneer of respectability, which is shameful.

1. Test scores aren't a great measure.
2. Schools aren't the only thing that affects test scores.
3. Mayoral control vs. school board: where's the causal analysis to determine that was the cause and not "strong leadership and investment in education" regardless of the governance structure.

“It’s propaganda!” “Test scores don’t matter!”

So you think standardized test scores are an appropriate measure? Consider why.