3 killed in crash on River Road

[Anonymous]

It's actually not rude. What's rude is camping in the left lane like it's your birthright. I'm especially looking at you, Maryland drivers.

All drivers do this from all over. I don't know why some of you are obsessed with talking about who is the worst state drivers, VA or MD. Also, sometimes there are exits on the left side. Do you still flash people when the sole reason they are there is to exit? If so, that is rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To 17:41... I'm happy your brothers never killed anyone. However, if they had, they would have been guilty of a horrific offense. Not a terrible lapse in judgement.

I'm happy your brothers never killed anyone not for their sake. Or yours. Or your parents. But the INNOCENT PEOPLE who would have paid the price for their dumb-assness.

And many more than 4 lives were ruined. The 3 people who paid the ultimate price. The daughter. The grandparents she is now living with lost a child & their spouse and grandson. The many friends that Tommy must have had at school. He had a bright future. Perhaps the citizens of our state/country lost out as well.

Have you ever been through loss? You don't "get over" people being gone. You just learn to deal with it.

Hopefully, other lives that have been ruined include this dude's parents who enabled him time and time again. And the family's attorney who got him off so many charges. Oh, and this dude, too. But honestly, he is a waste of air.

I have been through loss. I said all their lives were ruined, does that imply getting over it?

I don't know what the difference is between "offense" and "lack of judgment." Acting recklessly is simply not the same as acting with intent.

I find it strange that someone expressing sadness over the entire situation makes you all so angry. None of you have ever texted while driving? Drove home after one too many? Took your eyes off the road while your kid screamed at you? Drive too fast? I'm not saying the kid should get off or get a light sentence. But you all should be grateful that in one of your less attentive moments you didn't accidentally kill someone. It happens everyday. Acknowledging this persons' humanity isn't a betrayal to the victims. He should pay, but he's also a person.

You're going out of your way to defend this turd. Any sympathy people might have had is undone by the habitual nature of his speeding. If you're not his family then you've probably been planted by the lawyer who said his client was only doing the speed limit after the crash, implying the Volt was at fault. It's hard to imagine you're just a disinterested party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Do we know whether the speeder even had his lights on or not? He doesn't sound responsible enough for even that.

That model of BMW has automatic headlights, and daytime running lights. Some illumination would have been on. The crash report also states he flashed his high beams at the Volt (not clear if before it started to cross or not).

Okay, but usually, doesn't "flashing your lights" tell the other person to proceed (not a warning, but a "go ahead")? This kid isn't very smart.

Flashing your lights at someone on the highway means "get out of my way"....normally the car in front is going too slow for the car behind. I assume he was flashing the volt so it would stay out of the way...

No, flashing your lights at oncoming traffic does mean go ahead. If you are on a highway BEHIND someone and flash your lights, it is a (rude) signal for them to get into the righthand, slower lane so you can pass.

It's actually not rude. What's rude is camping in the left lane like it's your birthright. I'm especially looking at you, Maryland drivers.

Actually, many people consider it aggressive driving.

I know this because I was raised in Virginia, where it is legal to flash your high beams when overtaking another driver. As I recall, the law even requires the slower driver to get over after being signaled to do so. However, my DH is from California and was appalled when I did that with him in the car. It isn't only rude out there - it is ILLEGAL on a multilane road to flash your high beams at someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone willing to contact the State's Attorney office and express your outrage that he has repeatedly gotten charges reduced or dropped? I'm trying to decide exactly what I want to say. I'm so angry that 3 members of an innocent family lost their lives due to this idiot that I cannot think well enough to compose my thoughts. I want the state to pursue a harsh sentence and a permanently revoked driver's license. (Is my DL idea even possible?) 2 years per person won't cut it.

probably a case of diplomatic immunity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly it doesn't seem like he's a terrible person, just that he made a terrible mistake.

You need to stop saying that. He wasn't just a young person who made a terrible mistake. You're misleading people into thinking that he was pretty innocent. You've said this several times and been taken to task for it; most disagree with you. Are you his mother?

But an adult who is 2 years out of high school who has had numerous driving incidents, hasn't cleaned up his act, hasn't tried to take a driving course, and then goes 80 miles over the speed limit on a local non-highway road, and kills 3 people is not just a terrible mistake. It's criminal negligence and should be treated the same as any other manslaughter case. Calling this a terrible mistake minimizes his fault in this. That suggests that he couldn't have thought that what he was doing would hurt someone. 15-20 miles over the speed limit that injures someone by accident is a terrible mistake. 80 miles over the speed limit on a local road with crossing traffic and traffic lights is homicidal and criminally negligent. Worlds apart.

That was my first post on this thread since the initial incident (ask Jeff). I haven't even read the other responses but I'm sorry if knowing multiple people (who aren't related to victim or perpetrator) think this.

I'm not minimizing fault. It wasn't intentional therefore it was a mistake. A horrible one he deserves to pay for. But accidentally killing three people and feeling terrible about it describes a different kind of human than one that purposefully kills three people or who accidentally killed people and feels no remorse.

I really don't believe that this guy feels remorse for his actions. He clearly never felt guilt by speeding and being charged with reckless driving previously. He didn't change his driving habits; he continued to be a danger to drivers around him. So, I'm sorry, I just don't buy the whole "feels terrible" line.

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm sure he feels bad about killing 3 people, but I think he's probably more worried about what will happen to him. What's pathetic is that there are race tracks where you can race cars as an individual. If you want to smear yourself into pavement there are opportunities to do this legally. He's an arrogant, aggressive driver who promised a judge at a previous hearing for reckless driving that it wouldn't happen again, which makes him insincere and a liar. He deserves the longest sentence possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To 17:41... I'm happy your brothers never killed anyone. However, if they had, they would have been guilty of a horrific offense. Not a terrible lapse in judgement.

I'm happy your brothers never killed anyone not for their sake. Or yours. Or your parents. But the INNOCENT PEOPLE who would have paid the price for their dumb-assness.

And many more than 4 lives were ruined. The 3 people who paid the ultimate price. The daughter. The grandparents she is now living with lost a child & their spouse and grandson. The many friends that Tommy must have had at school. He had a bright future. Perhaps the citizens of our state/country lost out as well.

Have you ever been through loss? You don't "get over" people being gone. You just learn to deal with it.

Hopefully, other lives that have been ruined include this dude's parents who enabled him time and time again. And the family's attorney who got him off so many charges. Oh, and this dude, too. But honestly, he is a waste of air.

I have been through loss. I said all their lives were ruined, does that imply getting over it?

I don't know what the difference is between "offense" and "lack of judgment." Acting recklessly is simply not the same as acting with intent.

I find it strange that someone expressing sadness over the entire situation makes you all so angry. None of you have ever texted while driving? Drove home after one too many? Took your eyes off the road while your kid screamed at you? Drive too fast? I'm not saying the kid should get off or get a light sentence. But you all should be grateful that in one of your less attentive moments you didn't accidentally kill someone. It happens everyday. Acknowledging this persons' humanity isn't a betrayal to the victims. He should pay, but he's also a person.

You're going out of your way to defend this turd. Any sympathy people might have had is undone by the habitual nature of his speeding. If you're not his family then you've probably been planted by the lawyer who said his client was only doing the speed limit after the crash, implying the Volt was at fault. It's hard to imagine you're just a disinterested party.

Wow. No I am a completely disinterested party actually. I've never implied the volt was at fault.

One of those brothers I mentioned was killed as a teenager when a car hit him on a bike. The car was going too fast on a residential street and she was distracted by the kids in her car as she approached an intersection where he was coming out of. The car was driven by a middle aged white Potomac mother (who knew my brother, he was friends with her son). The only person more distraught than us that day was her. Maybe a middle aged white woman is a demographic you can sympathize with more? She'd had tickets before too.

So I'm not a plant, but I am someone who has experienced loss due to shitty driving and someone who knows first hand how every single person involved feels forever changed. And someone that has worked very hard to feel forgiveness. Part of that is realizing that anyone can do a terrible thing in single moment of recklessness. And that it doesn't mean they are a terrible person. And having known a bunch of 20 year old boys intimately as my other brothers grew up I can tell you they are stupid and feel invincible and the culture of Potomac parenting just bolsters this.

The only point I've actually tried to make is that I don't think the driver is the devil. Just that I think he is also one of his own victims. Why is the idea of having empathy for someone so completely disgusting to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone willing to contact the State's Attorney office and express your outrage that he has repeatedly gotten charges reduced or dropped? I'm trying to decide exactly what I want to say. I'm so angry that 3 members of an innocent family lost their lives due to this idiot that I cannot think well enough to compose my thoughts. I want the state to pursue a harsh sentence and a permanently revoked driver's license. (Is my DL idea even possible?) 2 years per person won't cut it.

probably a case of diplomatic immunity

I agree with you and am planning to write a letter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To 17:41... I'm happy your brothers never killed anyone. However, if they had, they would have been guilty of a horrific offense. Not a terrible lapse in judgement.

I'm happy your brothers never killed anyone not for their sake. Or yours. Or your parents. But the INNOCENT PEOPLE who would have paid the price for their dumb-assness.

And many more than 4 lives were ruined. The 3 people who paid the ultimate price. The daughter. The grandparents she is now living with lost a child & their spouse and grandson. The many friends that Tommy must have had at school. He had a bright future. Perhaps the citizens of our state/country lost out as well.

Have you ever been through loss? You don't "get over" people being gone. You just learn to deal with it.

Hopefully, other lives that have been ruined include this dude's parents who enabled him time and time again. And the family's attorney who got him off so many charges. Oh, and this dude, too. But honestly, he is a waste of air.

I have been through loss. I said all their lives were ruined, does that imply getting over it?

I don't know what the difference is between "offense" and "lack of judgment." Acting recklessly is simply not the same as acting with intent.

I find it strange that someone expressing sadness over the entire situation makes you all so angry. None of you have ever texted while driving? Drove home after one too many? Took your eyes off the road while your kid screamed at you? Drive too fast? I'm not saying the kid should get off or get a light sentence. But you all should be grateful that in one of your less attentive moments you didn't accidentally kill someone. It happens everyday. Acknowledging this persons' humanity isn't a betrayal to the victims. He should pay, but he's also a person.

You're going out of your way to defend this turd. Any sympathy people might have had is undone by the habitual nature of his speeding. If you're not his family then you've probably been planted by the lawyer who said his client was only doing the speed limit after the crash, implying the Volt was at fault. It's hard to imagine you're just a disinterested party.

Wow. No I am a completely disinterested party actually. I've never implied the volt was at fault.

One of those brothers I mentioned was killed as a teenager when a car hit him on a bike. The car was going too fast on a residential street and she was distracted by the kids in her car as she approached an intersection where he was coming out of. The car was driven by a middle aged white Potomac mother (who knew my brother, he was friends with her son). The only person more distraught than us that day was her. Maybe a middle aged white woman is a demographic you can sympathize with more? She'd had tickets before too.

So I'm not a plant, but I am someone who has experienced loss due to shitty driving and someone who knows first hand how every single person involved feels forever changed. And someone that has worked very hard to feel forgiveness. Part of that is realizing that anyone can do a terrible thing in single moment of recklessness. And that it doesn't mean they are a terrible person. And having known a bunch of 20 year old boys intimately as my other brothers grew up I can tell you they are stupid and feel invincible and the culture of Potomac parenting just bolsters this.

The only point I've actually tried to make is that I don't think the driver is the devil. Just that I think he is also one of his own victims. Why is the idea of having empathy for someone so completely disgusting to you?

Np here-
I'm very sorry for your loss, but your empathy is misplaced. The situation you describe is very different then the accident we are talking about. This guy wasn't having a bad moment. He willfully took everyone's lives in his hands with his decisions. That fact he wasn't distracted actually makes it so much worse. He intended to drive that speed on that road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Post article says the plea is not binding and he could back out on August 8. Hopefully he will not go to trial and hopefully the judge gives him at least the 30 years. And hopefully his family's attorney doesn't somehow get this overturned or reduced to 2 days or something.

Could he get a jury trial? Sorry if this was already covered.

Assuming he backs out of his guilty plea, of course. A defendant is entitled to a trial by jury. In his case, however, I would waive that right and ask for a bench trial.

The post also says he's completely distressed, admitted at the scene that it was all his fault and is willingly facing the consequences. It was a terrible accident and it sounds like he's going to live with it for the rest of his life (rightfully).

I bet he gets a moderate/light sentence. Remorse goes a long way with judges. And he wasn't drunk

Honestly it doesn't seem like he's a terrible person, just that he made a terrible mistake.

Are you this young man's parents or are you just mentally ill? He is a repeat offender who wiggled away each time till he murdered three innocent people.

You can acknowledge that he did a terrible thing that ruined four lives in addition to his own, that he deserves to be severely punished for that and not think he's a terrible person. A lot of 20 year old boys drive recklessly and the culture in Potomac with parents who equip these irresponsible kids with high powered vehicles contributes to this crap. He didn't set out to murder people, intent does matter when you're talking about the quality of a human being.

I am neither his parents nor mentally ill. What I am is someone who had three brothers grow up in that area and know exactly the type of stuff young privileged boys with loose supervision and fast cars can get into. My brothers never killed anyone but if you asked me if I thought they ever broke 100 on river when acting like stupid aholes? I'd probably bet on it. They're not bad people and would never do that today, but boys from age 14-25? They're reckless.

I think his life is ruined no matter how many years he gets considering the guilt he expressed at the scene and in his plea. And I think the girl's life is ruined no matter how much time he gets. Its a tragedy all around.

A 14 year old is a boy. A 20 year old man is not a boy anymore.

It's on the edge and if you don't think that you don't know many 20 year old boys.

We really need to stop infantilizing young adults and we need stop equating them to children. They are NOT children.

[Anonymous]

Well said, 13:50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow. No I am a completely disinterested party actually. I've never implied the volt was at fault.

One of those brothers I mentioned was killed as a teenager when a car hit him on a bike. The car was going too fast on a residential street and she was distracted by the kids in her car as she approached an intersection where he was coming out of. The car was driven by a middle aged white Potomac mother (who knew my brother, he was friends with her son). The only person more distraught than us that day was her. Maybe a middle aged white woman is a demographic you can sympathize with more? She'd had tickets before too.

So I'm not a plant, but I am someone who has experienced loss due to shitty driving and someone who knows first hand how every single person involved feels forever changed. And someone that has worked very hard to feel forgiveness. Part of that is realizing that anyone can do a terrible thing in single moment of recklessness. And that it doesn't mean they are a terrible person. And having known a bunch of 20 year old boys intimately as my other brothers grew up I can tell you they are stupid and feel invincible and the culture of Potomac parenting just bolsters this.

The only point I've actually tried to make is that I don't think the driver is the devil. Just that I think he is also one of his own victims. Why is the idea of having empathy for someone so completely disgusting to you?

Np here-
I'm very sorry for your loss, but your empathy is misplaced. The situation you describe is very different then the accident we are talking about. This guy wasn't having a bad moment. He willfully took everyone's lives in his hands with his decisions. That fact he wasn't distracted actually makes it so much worse. He intended to drive that speed on that road.

Completely agree with the NP above. -- Another NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, I'm sure he feels bad about killing 3 people, but I think he's probably more worried about what will happen to him. What's pathetic is that there are race tracks where you can race cars as an individual. If you want to smear yourself into pavement there are opportunities to do this legally. He's an arrogant, aggressive driver who promised a judge at a previous hearing for reckless driving that it wouldn't happen again, which makes him insincere and a liar. He deserves the longest sentence possible.

+1

[Anonymous]

Also note there is no diplomatic immunity - his father is not a diplomat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow. No I am a completely disinterested party actually. I've never implied the volt was at fault.

One of those brothers I mentioned was killed as a teenager when a car hit him on a bike. The car was going too fast on a residential street and she was distracted by the kids in her car as she approached an intersection where he was coming out of. The car was driven by a middle aged white Potomac mother (who knew my brother, he was friends with her son). The only person more distraught than us that day was her. Maybe a middle aged white woman is a demographic you can sympathize with more? She'd had tickets before too.

So I'm not a plant, but I am someone who has experienced loss due to shitty driving and someone who knows first hand how every single person involved feels forever changed. And someone that has worked very hard to feel forgiveness. Part of that is realizing that anyone can do a terrible thing in single moment of recklessness. And that it doesn't mean they are a terrible person. And having known a bunch of 20 year old boys intimately as my other brothers grew up I can tell you they are stupid and feel invincible and the culture of Potomac parenting just bolsters this.

The only point I've actually tried to make is that I don't think the driver is the devil. Just that I think he is also one of his own victims. Why is the idea of having empathy for someone so completely disgusting to you?

Np here-
I'm very sorry for your loss, but your empathy is misplaced. The situation you describe is very different then the accident we are talking about. This guy wasn't having a bad moment. He willfully took everyone's lives in his hands with his decisions. That fact he wasn't distracted actually makes it so much worse. He intended to drive that speed on that road.

Completely agree with the NP above. -- Another NP

You know what I don't think either of you (or the super hostile pp from earlier) have the right to tell be where to place my empathy or whether it not it is deserved. It remains in place.

You can not feel the same way and that is fine but my life has put me in a place where I can be devastated for the girl and feel for the driver.

And I don't see a tremendous difference. She was also speeding, and on a residential road. She also deserves empathy. I still don't understand why everyone is so bothered that there could be a person on dcum who thinks that everyone involved is a human being rather than reducing the villain to a cartoon evil villain.