Gen Xers - Do you find Taylor Swift’s music bland?

[Anonymous]

The whole friendship bracelet thing, every thirty something in my life has armfuls of them and it kinda looks stupid and very high school. I just can't with her phoniness. She screams fake.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Gen X women think hating Taylor Swift is a personality and I will never understand

One of the Gen X PPs here to clarify that I only am neutral/meh about Taylor. Now her fans…

+1

I have not posted much in the thread but I don't actually have strong feelings about Swift as a person. Like others I have tried to get into her music because she seems to be the biggest thing going, but it just never clicks with me. I do like singer-songwriters like Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo so I don't think it's purely a generational thing.

But reading through the thread I am reminded that I find diehard Swifties really annoying. They take any critique of Swift so personally. I don't get it. I think there is a lot of over identification with her as a personal avatar and it's not healthy. She's just an artist and celeb.

Actually, I don’t really care whether people like her or not. I understand she is not everyone’s cup of tea. I think people mainly take issue with the criticisms that come from generalizations or ignorance, or even a dismissal of her themes as unimportant because they appeal to young women as though that is a bad thing. There’s a deeper body of work there underneath the radio hits. I understand not everyone has the time or willingness to listen to them. But many people still speak before they know.

Then give me an example of something I should listen to and appreciate.

There's this masterpiece about her sweater

https://youtu.be/K-a8s8OLBSE?feature=shared

I tried and felt like I’ve heard versions of that song from her before. Dreamy whisper pop. Got bored half way through and turned it off. Not doing it for me. Sorry.

You didn't feel the obvious sarcasm when PP posted that song, really? A song about her sweater. ??

JFC. You really don’t get metaphor, do you? This explains so much.
DP

[Anonymous]

Born in the 70s and definitely more of a rock and roll girl, but I like a lot of Taylor’s music, esp. her less popular songs from Lover, Evermore, Folklore… Love her new album too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Gen X women think hating Taylor Swift is a personality and I will never understand

One of the Gen X PPs here to clarify that I only am neutral/meh about Taylor. Now her fans…

+1

I have not posted much in the thread but I don't actually have strong feelings about Swift as a person. Like others I have tried to get into her music because she seems to be the biggest thing going, but it just never clicks with me. I do like singer-songwriters like Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo so I don't think it's purely a generational thing.

But reading through the thread I am reminded that I find diehard Swifties really annoying. They take any critique of Swift so personally. I don't get it. I think there is a lot of over identification with her as a personal avatar and it's not healthy. She's just an artist and celeb.

Actually, I don’t really care whether people like her or not. I understand she is not everyone’s cup of tea. I think people mainly take issue with the criticisms that come from generalizations or ignorance, or even a dismissal of her themes as unimportant because they appeal to young women as though that is a bad thing. There’s a deeper body of work there underneath the radio hits. I understand not everyone has the time or willingness to listen to them. But many people still speak before they know.

Then give me an example of something I should listen to and appreciate.

There's this masterpiece about her sweater

https://youtu.be/K-a8s8OLBSE?feature=shared

I tried and felt like I’ve heard versions of that song from her before. Dreamy whisper pop. Got bored half way through and turned it off. Not doing it for me. Sorry.

That’s my issue with her latest albums. I listened to the first song and liked it. Then I kept listening and realized they all sound the same.

If I listen to a Beatles or Radiohead album, I’ll get variety from song to song. I don’t feel like I get that sort of rhythmic and sonic variety from her albums, especially lately.

It's interesting. I hear a lot of variety in the songs on TTPD and some of them evoke a lot of emotion, most especially Robin. Maybe we just have different definitions of variety and pick up the sounds/themes differently because of the different music we appreciate. I like Radiohead just fine but they don't resonate with me like they did in the 90s. The Beatles are mainly meh to me and always have been.

+1
Robin is a truly beautiful song and makes me tear up thinking of my (now adult) kids when they were little. I believe she and Aaron Dessner wrote that together since it’s about his son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a genxr who turns the volume all the way up for all too well 10 minute version screaming my lungs out, banging the steering wheel.

Haha. That is me with the bridge in Smallest Man Who Ever Lived.

DP! Me too. That one hits different!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Gen X women think hating Taylor Swift is a personality and I will never understand

One of the Gen X PPs here to clarify that I only am neutral/meh about Taylor. Now her fans…

+1

I have not posted much in the thread but I don't actually have strong feelings about Swift as a person. Like others I have tried to get into her music because she seems to be the biggest thing going, but it just never clicks with me. I do like singer-songwriters like Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo so I don't think it's purely a generational thing.

But reading through the thread I am reminded that I find diehard Swifties really annoying. They take any critique of Swift so personally. I don't get it. I think there is a lot of over identification with her as a personal avatar and it's not healthy. She's just an artist and celeb.

Actually, I don’t really care whether people like her or not. I understand she is not everyone’s cup of tea. I think people mainly take issue with the criticisms that come from generalizations or ignorance, or even a dismissal of her themes as unimportant because they appeal to young women as though that is a bad thing. There’s a deeper body of work there underneath the radio hits. I understand not everyone has the time or willingness to listen to them. But many people still speak before they know.

Then give me an example of something I should listen to and appreciate.

There's this masterpiece about her sweater

https://youtu.be/K-a8s8OLBSE?feature=shared

I tried and felt like I’ve heard versions of that song from her before. Dreamy whisper pop. Got bored half way through and turned it off. Not doing it for me. Sorry.

That’s my issue with her latest albums. I listened to the first song and liked it. Then I kept listening and realized they all sound the same.

If I listen to a Beatles or Radiohead album, I’ll get variety from song to song. I don’t feel like I get that sort of rhythmic and sonic variety from her albums, especially lately.

You think Shake it off and Peter sound the same?

Okay, she has upbeat and downbeat songs. Great.

Peter is a waltz.

DP. I live it because it’s just her and the piano. And the parallels are so good. Here’s the lyric video:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen X women think hating Taylor Swift is a personality and I will never understand

One of the Gen X PPs here to clarify that I only am neutral/meh about Taylor. Now her fans…

+1

I have not posted much in the thread but I don't actually have strong feelings about Swift as a person. Like others I have tried to get into her music because she seems to be the biggest thing going, but it just never clicks with me. I do like singer-songwriters like Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo so I don't think it's purely a generational thing.

But reading through the thread I am reminded that I find diehard Swifties really annoying. They take any critique of Swift so personally. I don't get it. I think there is a lot of over identification with her as a personal avatar and it's not healthy. She's just an artist and celeb.

Actually, I don’t really care whether people like her or not. I understand she is not everyone’s cup of tea. I think people mainly take issue with the criticisms that come from generalizations or ignorance, or even a dismissal of her themes as unimportant because they appeal to young women as though that is a bad thing. There’s a deeper body of work there underneath the radio hits. I understand not everyone has the time or willingness to listen to them. But many people still speak before they know.

Yep. It’s the obvious misogyny and impossible standards Taylor is held to that get some of us riled up.

The problem is when you cast any criticism of her as misogyny.

Not any. But certainly some. And anytime it’s brought up it’s cast as rabid crazy hysterical women defending her.

No one has said it’s rabid hysterical women.

But you all seemed to take a huge amount of offense at the notion that TS writing lyrics and basically not music means that her winning songwriting awards is a bit weird. At the very least, she should be winning them with Max Martin, Shellback, and the others who write the instrumentation.

DP. It has been explained to you over and over that she does, indeed, write the melodies to her songs. They are created on the piano or guitar - by her - and then she works with her collaborators and/or producers to fill them out with more instrumentation. I’m not sure what about this is confusing to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 2nd grader has even been frustrated about how obsessed her friends are with TS.

Yesterday she asked me why they all love her so much. “They say she’s the best musician in the world. She’s not, right? Why are they so obsessed with her?”

So believable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I prefer BTS which has its own large fandom. Taylor is ok but she doesn’t have as much depth and breadth and her story isn’t as compelling. Her concerts sound like fun. I think part of her popularity is that there aren’t enough other women given chances in the American music industry unless they dress sexy and sing about f-ing. Taylor is appropriate for those wanting a PG13 experience.

I’d so much rather my daughter love Pink than TS.

She’s always been authentically herself and doesn’t seem to care that she’s different. She has seemed to embrace it.

https://youtu.be/Wxd-YGvry1o?si=bUiowYr21lh0GEJ5

And Taylor Swift has always been “authentically herself” and very different from the other kids growing up. So much so that she was bullied for doing her own thing and being her own person. Pink is great too. Isn’t it great that we can like more than one singer?
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My 2nd grader has even been frustrated about how obsessed her friends are with TS.

Yesterday she asked me why they all love her so much. “They say she’s the best musician in the world. She’s not, right? Why are they so obsessed with her?”

Wow, your 2nd grader is so musically progressive. Are they always this critical of their friends?

She’s a really kind friend. She just doesn’t understand why they keep talking about what is to her a random person.

But she’s not a “random person” to her friends. She’s a musician they admire and who resonates with them?

Yes, and she gets that. But she’s 7. And she doesn’t understand the fixation on TS as a person.

Celebrity worship can be a weird thing to a kid who hasn’t found any famous person they adore.

I can understand your kid not getting it... I just don't understand your weird flex about it.

+1
I remember when 2nd graders loved Hannah Montana - or JoJo Siwa, for god’s sake!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole friendship bracelet thing, every thirty something in my life has armfuls of them and it kinda looks stupid and very high school. I just can't with her phoniness. She screams fake.

Going to her show next month and I have beads and elastic string out on a table. I sit down at random times to make a bracelet or 2 almost every day. I am 48. It is just fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The whole friendship bracelet thing, every thirty something in my life has armfuls of them and it kinda looks stupid and very high school. I just can't with her phoniness. She screams fake.

I seriously do not understand people my age (in their 30s) being obsessed with her.

Teenagers are one thing, but a 38 year old woman being fixated on her is just weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen X women think hating Taylor Swift is a personality and I will never understand

One of the Gen X PPs here to clarify that I only am neutral/meh about Taylor. Now her fans…

+1

I have not posted much in the thread but I don't actually have strong feelings about Swift as a person. Like others I have tried to get into her music because she seems to be the biggest thing going, but it just never clicks with me. I do like singer-songwriters like Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo so I don't think it's purely a generational thing.

But reading through the thread I am reminded that I find diehard Swifties really annoying. They take any critique of Swift so personally. I don't get it. I think there is a lot of over identification with her as a personal avatar and it's not healthy. She's just an artist and celeb.

Actually, I don’t really care whether people like her or not. I understand she is not everyone’s cup of tea. I think people mainly take issue with the criticisms that come from generalizations or ignorance, or even a dismissal of her themes as unimportant because they appeal to young women as though that is a bad thing. There’s a deeper body of work there underneath the radio hits. I understand not everyone has the time or willingness to listen to them. But many people still speak before they know.

Yep. It’s the obvious misogyny and impossible standards Taylor is held to that get some of us riled up.

The problem is when you cast any criticism of her as misogyny.

Not any. But certainly some. And anytime it’s brought up it’s cast as rabid crazy hysterical women defending her.

No one has said it’s rabid hysterical women.

But you all seemed to take a huge amount of offense at the notion that TS writing lyrics and basically not music means that her winning songwriting awards is a bit weird. At the very least, she should be winning them with Max Martin, Shellback, and the others who write the instrumentation.

DP. It has been explained to you over and over that she does, indeed, write the melodies to her songs. They are created on the piano or guitar - by her - and then she works with her collaborators and/or producers to fill them out with more instrumentation. I’m not sure what about this is confusing to you?

No she doesn’t. She is given what are called bed tracks by her producers and then she writes lyrics on top of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2nd grader has even been frustrated about how obsessed her friends are with TS.

Yesterday she asked me why they all love her so much. “They say she’s the best musician in the world. She’s not, right? Why are they so obsessed with her?”

Wow, your 2nd grader is so musically progressive. Are they always this critical of their friends?

She’s a really kind friend. She just doesn’t understand why they keep talking about what is to her a random person.

I have a 2nd grade DD too and she doesn't dislike TS at all and really likes some of her songs but has also expressed frustration about the level of obsession among her friends. DD listens to lots of different kinds of music though and a lot of her friends just went straight from the Disney musicals to TS with no side journeys and I get why this is annoying. It feels brainless. Not because TS is bad but because she's the biggest pop star in the world and "everyone likes her" and it feels like a substitute for developing your own tastes and interests. But I think the world is sort of set up to encourage kids to think this way -- so much of kids' media is about telling kids "this is what you should like now" instead of just exposing kids to different things and seeing what they enjoy.

I like TS fine but I do sometimes feel like discussion of her blots out everything else. I think this is why these threads devolve into sniping where some people are criticizing Swift and then the Swifties come in to refute every criticism. It's because of the expectation that "everyone" has to like her and also like everything about her. You aren't allowed to say "I like some of her music but I find her presence at NFL games annoying" or "I think TTPD is great but hated everything before it" or "I really liked her music when I was younger but it just doesn't speak to me anymore." If you say any of these things you will immediately have someone jumping on you and saying your qualified fandom is wrong and misogynistic. But I think those are all reasonable comments and I think if you made them about pretty much anyone else they would go unremarked upon. But with Swift they will be refuted. Why? It's just an opinion.

Ok, this is just silly. Many of us have been saying exactly those things! Several of us came to be Swift fans more recently, when she put out her more introspective albums. Before that, she was just fun pop that I didn’t give a lot of thought to, but did find her to be a clever lyricist. Now I see a lot more in her work. She has matured, and I have too.

What it seems to me is that some of you want very desperately to keep posting and arguing that she isn’t “all that.” You’re more than welcome to your opinion! But so are the rest of us who have actually seen what an incredibly hard worker she is. And we’re going to refute the false claims put out by a few of you. If you don’t like her music, why do you keep posting on threads about her? Why aren’t you say, spending your time listening to someone you do find enjoyable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gen X women think hating Taylor Swift is a personality and I will never understand

One of the Gen X PPs here to clarify that I only am neutral/meh about Taylor. Now her fans…

+1

I have not posted much in the thread but I don't actually have strong feelings about Swift as a person. Like others I have tried to get into her music because she seems to be the biggest thing going, but it just never clicks with me. I do like singer-songwriters like Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo so I don't think it's purely a generational thing.

But reading through the thread I am reminded that I find diehard Swifties really annoying. They take any critique of Swift so personally. I don't get it. I think there is a lot of over identification with her as a personal avatar and it's not healthy. She's just an artist and celeb.

Actually, I don’t really care whether people like her or not. I understand she is not everyone’s cup of tea. I think people mainly take issue with the criticisms that come from generalizations or ignorance, or even a dismissal of her themes as unimportant because they appeal to young women as though that is a bad thing. There’s a deeper body of work there underneath the radio hits. I understand not everyone has the time or willingness to listen to them. But many people still speak before they know.

Then give me an example of something I should listen to and appreciate.

There's this masterpiece about her sweater

https://youtu.be/K-a8s8OLBSE?feature=shared

I tried and felt like I’ve heard versions of that song from her before. Dreamy whisper pop. Got bored half way through and turned it off. Not doing it for me. Sorry.

That’s my issue with her latest albums. I listened to the first song and liked it. Then I kept listening and realized they all sound the same.

If I listen to a Beatles or Radiohead album, I’ll get variety from song to song. I don’t feel like I get that sort of rhythmic and sonic variety from her albums, especially lately.

You think Shake it off and Peter sound the same?

Sounds kinda like that sweater song!

One is 130 beats per minute and the other 177 beats per minutes

Cardigan is like Walking on Air and Peter is like Mr. Tamborine Man.

Are you a musician?

Varying BPMs is not really all that impressive.

Talk to me about chord progression, melodic variation, harmonic progressions, key changes, time signature changes within the same song, etc.

I just looked up the chords for Peter. They’re very simple. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it’s going to contribute to the song feeling kind of bland.

Same thing with Cardigan. Cowboy chords.

I love her simple songs. Beautiful melodies don’t need to be heavily instrumental.
DP