The Dad Privilege Checklist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a stepmom. My husband does about 80% of the things on this list. The kids mom moved across the country and does not financially support them and she only sees them once or twice a year. Hasn’t seen them in eight months. This started when they were about 13. She doesn’t do Jack, except criticize their father to them while he does 99 percent of the parenting.

It sounds like your stepchildren’s mother is dealing with some kind of mental or physical illness.
We aren’t really talking about outliers here. Or “deadbeat dads.”

This thread is about normal moms and dads engaging in societally sanctioned behavior. Moms have higher expectations placed on them.

Not by me or my family. Generalities are dumb and the reason why everyone has been arguing on this thread. Your opinion is not fact.

Sure. Every family has its own kind of micro culture.
But if you talk about the culture at large, men behaving like this is acceptable.

Just like you and your family may not find homosexuality acceptable. It is, nonetheless, acceptable to society at large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

The solution is not to reproduce. Women in South Korea and Japan already have taken a stand on this issue. We're wrecking the planet anyway. But if people insist, I like a PP's idea of putting together a spreadsheet of all responsibilities and dividing them up between partners (and while the spreadsheet is no guarantee of follow-through, I think that people who are reluctant to work together with their SOs in this way are showing red flags about themselves and are not partner material. So ideally the spreadsheet should be done at the beginning of co-habitation, way before making it official). Next, I think there is something to having one healthy, capable kid (yes, there is always the possibility that the child won't be healthy and/or will be disabled, but a lot of the more common disabilities and conditions are screenable or foreseeable--so many parents on this site talk about the difficulties of having kids with autism and/or ADHD, for example, as if this outcome weren't a predictable result of marrying and procreating with a spouse who has one or both). One child is simply less work and requires fewer resources in the form of time and money than two or more, resulting in a better balance for the entire family.

NP. This is actually great advice. All of the women that feel so oppressed by "dad privilege" should decline to reproduce or have one kid tops and leave the bulk of creating and raising the next generation to the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

The solution is not to reproduce. Women in South Korea and Japan already have taken a stand on this issue. We're wrecking the planet anyway. But if people insist, I like a PP's idea of putting together a spreadsheet of all responsibilities and dividing them up between partners (and while the spreadsheet is no guarantee of follow-through, I think that people who are reluctant to work together with their SOs in this way are showing red flags about themselves and are not partner material. So ideally the spreadsheet should be done at the beginning of co-habitation, way before making it official). Next, I think there is something to having one healthy, capable kid (yes, there is always the possibility that the child won't be healthy and/or will be disabled, but a lot of the more common disabilities and conditions are screenable or foreseeable--so many parents on this site talk about the difficulties of having kids with autism and/or ADHD, for example, as if this outcome weren't a predictable result of marrying and procreating with a spouse who has one or both). One child is simply less work and requires fewer resources in the form of time and money than two or more, resulting in a better balance for the entire family.

NP. This is actually great advice. All of the women that feel so oppressed by "dad privilege" should decline to reproduce or have one kid tops and leave the bulk of creating and raising the next generation to the rest of us.

Ah yes. the old go back in time ....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre.

And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc.

DP. I've never met a man who cared if his wife could handle a large trash pickup or clean out a mousetrap. I've known plenty of women who could, probably most, but I've never sat around with my dad friends wondering why our wives aren't the ones cleaning up dead animals around the house.

I am a wife and exclusively handle garbage pick up, including bulk pickup. I also manage the yard and do most of the small repairs around the house, and book someone if it's beyond my ability. I make sure the filters around the house get changed regularly, and I handle oil changes and gasing up the car, plus I'm the only one who ever vacuums out the car or wipes down the interior.

But go ahead and ask my husband about the last time he booked a hotel for a vacation, volunteered at the kid's school, spoke to our child's doctor, cut our child's fingernails, arranged camp or any childcare, etc.? The answer is either "years" or "never."

The reason women sit around talking about how men never do a lot of this stuff is because men truly never do it. You guys can't sit around talking about how women aren't doing these supposedly "manly" tasks because most of you aren't doing them! My DH has never, ever cleaned up a dead animal around the house! We recently had a vent cover fall off the exterior of the house and bird set up a nest in there and I handled the whole damn thing -- getting the nest out, attaching a new cover, etc. DH said he'd do it but then said he didn't know where to start and could I help, and in the end he just stood around while I did it.

The bean counting over petty tasks that are really women's work to begin with is absurd.

PP: The fact that you think there is such a thing as "women's work" tells me all I need to know about you.

Question here: went to a grandparents funeral recently. The drop the rope mom apparently assumed her husband would make sure the kids (late middle school) were dressed appropriately and no one did. It was his dad who passed. Kids were wearing crop tops, a halter, jeans. I am curious to hear from the “nothing wrong with paper plates” crowd. Is this just a big nothing and we all need to get over ourselves? Feels really disrespectful to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre.

And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc.

DP. I've never met a man who cared if his wife could handle a large trash pickup or clean out a mousetrap. I've known plenty of women who could, probably most, but I've never sat around with my dad friends wondering why our wives aren't the ones cleaning up dead animals around the house.

I am a wife and exclusively handle garbage pick up, including bulk pickup. I also manage the yard and do most of the small repairs around the house, and book someone if it's beyond my ability. I make sure the filters around the house get changed regularly, and I handle oil changes and gasing up the car, plus I'm the only one who ever vacuums out the car or wipes down the interior.

But go ahead and ask my husband about the last time he booked a hotel for a vacation, volunteered at the kid's school, spoke to our child's doctor, cut our child's fingernails, arranged camp or any childcare, etc.? The answer is either "years" or "never."

The reason women sit around talking about how men never do a lot of this stuff is because men truly never do it. You guys can't sit around talking about how women aren't doing these supposedly "manly" tasks because most of you aren't doing them! My DH has never, ever cleaned up a dead animal around the house! We recently had a vent cover fall off the exterior of the house and bird set up a nest in there and I handled the whole damn thing -- getting the nest out, attaching a new cover, etc. DH said he'd do it but then said he didn't know where to start and could I help, and in the end he just stood around while I did it.

The bean counting over petty tasks that are really women's work to begin with is absurd.

PP: The fact that you think there is such a thing as "women's work" tells me all I need to know about you.

Question here: went to a grandparents funeral recently. The drop the rope mom apparently assumed her husband would make sure the kids (late middle school) were dressed appropriately and no one did. It was his dad who passed. Kids were wearing crop tops, a halter, jeans. I am curious to hear from the “nothing wrong with paper plates” crowd. Is this just a big nothing and we all need to get over ourselves? Feels really disrespectful to me.

HIS dad, HIS dad problem if anyone in HIS family felt disrespected.

On the other hand, if mom is the one buying the crop tops and halters in the first place it actually is also her fault. Don’t buy your kids trashy clothes if you don’t want them to dress like trash.

[Anonymous]

Lol the “nothing wrong with paper plates” crowd needs their own chat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre.

And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc.

DP. I've never met a man who cared if his wife could handle a large trash pickup or clean out a mousetrap. I've known plenty of women who could, probably most, but I've never sat around with my dad friends wondering why our wives aren't the ones cleaning up dead animals around the house.

I am a wife and exclusively handle garbage pick up, including bulk pickup. I also manage the yard and do most of the small repairs around the house, and book someone if it's beyond my ability. I make sure the filters around the house get changed regularly, and I handle oil changes and gasing up the car, plus I'm the only one who ever vacuums out the car or wipes down the interior.

But go ahead and ask my husband about the last time he booked a hotel for a vacation, volunteered at the kid's school, spoke to our child's doctor, cut our child's fingernails, arranged camp or any childcare, etc.? The answer is either "years" or "never."

The reason women sit around talking about how men never do a lot of this stuff is because men truly never do it. You guys can't sit around talking about how women aren't doing these supposedly "manly" tasks because most of you aren't doing them! My DH has never, ever cleaned up a dead animal around the house! We recently had a vent cover fall off the exterior of the house and bird set up a nest in there and I handled the whole damn thing -- getting the nest out, attaching a new cover, etc. DH said he'd do it but then said he didn't know where to start and could I help, and in the end he just stood around while I did it.

The bean counting over petty tasks that are really women's work to begin with is absurd.

PP: The fact that you think there is such a thing as "women's work" tells me all I need to know about you.

Question here: went to a grandparents funeral recently. The drop the rope mom apparently assumed her husband would make sure the kids (late middle school) were dressed appropriately and no one did. It was his dad who passed. Kids were wearing crop tops, a halter, jeans. I am curious to hear from the “nothing wrong with paper plates” crowd. Is this just a big nothing and we all need to get over ourselves? Feels really disrespectful to me.

HIS dad, HIS dad problem if anyone in HIS family felt disrespected.

On the other hand, if mom is the one buying the crop tops and halters in the first place it actually is also her fault. Don’t buy your kids trashy clothes if you don’t want them to dress like trash.

What are you talking about? The problem is that the mom found that the children were wearing inappropriate clothing for a funeral, not that they're inappropriate period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

The solution is not to reproduce. Women in South Korea and Japan already have taken a stand on this issue. We're wrecking the planet anyway. But if people insist, I like a PP's idea of putting together a spreadsheet of all responsibilities and dividing them up between partners (and while the spreadsheet is no guarantee of follow-through, I think that people who are reluctant to work together with their SOs in this way are showing red flags about themselves and are not partner material. So ideally the spreadsheet should be done at the beginning of co-habitation, way before making it official). Next, I think there is something to having one healthy, capable kid (yes, there is always the possibility that the child won't be healthy and/or will be disabled, but a lot of the more common disabilities and conditions are screenable or foreseeable--so many parents on this site talk about the difficulties of having kids with autism and/or ADHD, for example, as if this outcome weren't a predictable result of marrying and procreating with a spouse who has one or both). One child is simply less work and requires fewer resources in the form of time and money than two or more, resulting in a better balance for the entire family.

NP. This is actually great advice. All of the women that feel so oppressed by "dad privilege" should decline to reproduce or have one kid tops and leave the bulk of creating and raising the next generation to the rest of us.

Plunging birthrates basically prove young women know about dad privilege and avoid it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a stepmom. My husband does about 80% of the things on this list. The kids mom moved across the country and does not financially support them and she only sees them once or twice a year. Hasn’t seen them in eight months. This started when they were about 13. She doesn’t do Jack, except criticize their father to them while he does 99 percent of the parenting.

It sounds like your stepchildren’s mother is dealing with some kind of mental or physical illness.
We aren’t really talking about outliers here. Or “deadbeat dads.”

This thread is about normal moms and dads engaging in societally sanctioned behavior. Moms have higher expectations placed on them.

Not by me or my family. Generalities are dumb and the reason why everyone has been arguing on this thread. Your opinion is not fact.

Sure. Every family has its own kind of micro culture.
But if you talk about the culture at large, men behaving like this is acceptable.

Just like you and your family may not find homosexuality acceptable. It is, nonetheless, acceptable to society at large.

No it’s not

[Anonymous]

Yes, I do almost everything on this list. But there are so many things my husband does that I don’t think about: I didn’t research what type of car to buy or negotiate the price with dealers; I don’t monitor our investments; he has been the exclusive contact for all home projects and renovations. We definitely have gendered roles but he’s also doing a lot of work for the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre.

And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc.

DP. I've never met a man who cared if his wife could handle a large trash pickup or clean out a mousetrap. I've known plenty of women who could, probably most, but I've never sat around with my dad friends wondering why our wives aren't the ones cleaning up dead animals around the house.

I am a wife and exclusively handle garbage pick up, including bulk pickup. I also manage the yard and do most of the small repairs around the house, and book someone if it's beyond my ability. I make sure the filters around the house get changed regularly, and I handle oil changes and gasing up the car, plus I'm the only one who ever vacuums out the car or wipes down the interior.

But go ahead and ask my husband about the last time he booked a hotel for a vacation, volunteered at the kid's school, spoke to our child's doctor, cut our child's fingernails, arranged camp or any childcare, etc.? The answer is either "years" or "never."

The reason women sit around talking about how men never do a lot of this stuff is because men truly never do it. You guys can't sit around talking about how women aren't doing these supposedly "manly" tasks because most of you aren't doing them! My DH has never, ever cleaned up a dead animal around the house! We recently had a vent cover fall off the exterior of the house and bird set up a nest in there and I handled the whole damn thing -- getting the nest out, attaching a new cover, etc. DH said he'd do it but then said he didn't know where to start and could I help, and in the end he just stood around while I did it.

The bean counting over petty tasks that are really women's work to begin with is absurd.

PP: The fact that you think there is such a thing as "women's work" tells me all I need to know about you.

Question here: went to a grandparents funeral recently. The drop the rope mom apparently assumed her husband would make sure the kids (late middle school) were dressed appropriately and no one did. It was his dad who passed. Kids were wearing crop tops, a halter, jeans. I am curious to hear from the “nothing wrong with paper plates” crowd. Is this just a big nothing and we all need to get over ourselves? Feels really disrespectful to me.

HIS dad, HIS dad problem if anyone in HIS family felt disrespected.

On the other hand, if mom is the one buying the crop tops and halters in the first place it actually is also her fault. Don’t buy your kids trashy clothes if you don’t want them to dress like trash.

What are you talking about? The problem is that the mom found that the children were wearing inappropriate clothing for a funeral, not that they're inappropriate period.

Maybe since mom insists in doing all the shopping dad assumed the kids would own some appropriate clothes and didn’t understand until the last minute that mom dresses the kids like trash?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, all of this is made easier if mom stays home with the children and dad makes more money to compensate. I know it’s an unpopular sentiment, but most women would feel much less resentment if they dropped work to focus their efforts (when the children are young) on raising them and let their DH work harder to cover the bills.

So you think the only function women should have once they become mothers is to solely focus on being a mom? Why is that fair? Women have talents, skills and brains that society can benefit from! Why can Dads be dads and also productive members of society!

You do know the story of Japan? Women are choosing not to become mothers because of the unequal treatment of women! I am not encouraging my dds to become mothers! If the population dies out so be it.

I’m saying that mothers would be much happier if the focused solely on being moms when their children are young. They very well may have talents/brain/skills society can benefit from, but the discussion about happiness and purpose are two separate ones. The vast majority of career women have jobs, not careers, and it is ironic that women supporting feminism parrot the incredulous lie that working 45 hours per week as Regional Sales Manager to Management is worth more to women than being home with their child. It is certainly worth more to your company that you spend those hours click-clacking on your laptop, but it won’t make you happier. I think the female resentment is symptomatic that some women are waking up like “what the hell am I doing, getting sucked dry for $35/hr?” but the market absolutely cannot allow her to consider quitting so - quick! - blame her DH and they can fight about who cleans gutters so that no one stops and says “wait, who is actually getting all our time?”

Why should moms be the ones who stay at home when the children are young? What makes you think they find dealing with infants anymore fulfilling than dads do?

NP I agree with that, it shouldn't necessarily be moms, but one of the child's parents ought to do it. I think you'll find that many infants do not find dealing with the daycare environment and daycare workers as fulfilling as being home with a loving parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, all of this is made easier if mom stays home with the children and dad makes more money to compensate. I know it’s an unpopular sentiment, but most women would feel much less resentment if they dropped work to focus their efforts (when the children are young) on raising them and let their DH work harder to cover the bills.

So you think the only function women should have once they become mothers is to solely focus on being a mom? Why is that fair? Women have talents, skills and brains that society can benefit from! Why can Dads be dads and also productive members of society!

You do know the story of Japan? Women are choosing not to become mothers because of the unequal treatment of women! I am not encouraging my dds to become mothers! If the population dies out so be it.
I’m saying that mothers would be much happier if the focused solely on being moms when their children are young. They very well may have talents/brain/skills society can benefit from, but the discussion about happiness and purpose are two separate ones. The vast majority of career women have jobs, not careers, and it is ironic that women supporting feminism parrot the incredulous lie that working 45 hours per week as Regional Sales Manager to Management is worth more to women than being home with their child. It is certainly worth more to your company that you spend those hours click-clacking on your laptop, but it won’t make you happier. I think the female resentment is symptomatic that some women are waking up like “what the hell am I doing, getting sucked dry for $35/hr?” but the market absolutely cannot allow her to consider quitting so - quick! - blame her DH and they can fight about who cleans gutters so that no one stops and says “wait, who is actually getting all our time?”

Why should moms be the ones who stay at home when the children are young? What makes you think they find dealing with infants anymore fulfilling than dads do?

I think my husband would have been the better stay at home parent than me. He's much more patient with the kids. He's also better at cleaning.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And then there are your kids, who hear your spiteful arguments about who "has" to deal with them today.

Start a therapy coin jar now.

Who is arguing about this in front of their kids?

Also, a lot of this is not about spending time with kids. It's about doing the work that goes into keeping the house running. If a child overhears his mom telling his dad "I need you to step up and help with getting the kids ready for school this year, including registering and going to the teacher meet and greet and getting supplies and updating uniforms," that's a GOOD thing for a child to hear. They are learning that there is more to having kids than just chatting with them at dinner, and also that their mother expects their father to be an equal partner in that work.

Now, if the dad's response is "uuuuuugh, I hate that stuff. You're so much better at it. Can you do it?" Well, that's going to communicate something pretty depressing to the kids. But the problem there is not that mom asked her husband to do more. It's that he does not value his kids enough to do it.

Actually, what they’re learning from the bolded is that this stuff really *is* Mom’s domain, which is why SHE is the one in charge and delegating tasks to her underling, their Dad. This dynamic is what eventually leads to all the complaints about language involving Dad “helping out” with raising his own kids.

Then what do you suggest a woman whose partner DOES NOT do this stuff without being asked/forced to, do?

The only way this changes is if men actually start doing more of this. But look at this thread. It's a bunch of men claiming they already do and the list is misogynist (despite study after study showing that women do far more childcare and housework than men and have less leisure time), women claiming their husbands already do all this (again, despite ample evidence that this is not the norm). and then both groups claiming that IF there are marriages where the woman is doing a lot more than the man, it's probably her fault anyway for either picking the wrong man or failing to properly delegate/invite him to help/ask in the right way/bing to controlling/etc. No matter what, it is never, ever the man's fault that his wife is doing 70-100% of the chilcare/housework related tasks. So what motive do men have to actually change their ways? People will bend over backwards to blame their wives anyway.

And now a woman who speaks up and says "you need to do this" is damaging her kids, either by making it sound like she doesn't love every minute of unpaid labor she does on behalf of her family, or reinforcing the idea that this is her job and her husband is just a "helper."

So, what is the solution?

The solution is not to reproduce. Women in South Korea and Japan already have taken a stand on this issue. We're wrecking the planet anyway. But if people insist, I like a PP's idea of putting together a spreadsheet of all responsibilities and dividing them up between partners (and while the spreadsheet is no guarantee of follow-through, I think that people who are reluctant to work together with their SOs in this way are showing red flags about themselves and are not partner material. So ideally the spreadsheet should be done at the beginning of co-habitation, way before making it official). Next, I think there is something to having one healthy, capable kid (yes, there is always the possibility that the child won't be healthy and/or will be disabled, but a lot of the more common disabilities and conditions are screenable or foreseeable--so many parents on this site talk about the difficulties of having kids with autism and/or ADHD, for example, as if this outcome weren't a predictable result of marrying and procreating with a spouse who has one or both). One child is simply less work and requires fewer resources in the form of time and money than two or more, resulting in a better balance for the entire family.

NP. This is actually great advice. All of the women that feel so oppressed by "dad privilege" should decline to reproduce or have one kid tops and leave the bulk of creating and raising the next generation to the rest of us.

Plunging birthrates basically prove young women know about dad privilege and avoid it

I think it's more about the overall cost of living and it's more socially acceptable to be child-free but sure that could be a factor

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Honestly, all of this is made easier if mom stays home with the children and dad makes more money to compensate. I know it’s an unpopular sentiment, but most women would feel much less resentment if they dropped work to focus their efforts (when the children are young) on raising them and let their DH work harder to cover the bills.

So you think the only function women should have once they become mothers is to solely focus on being a mom? Why is that fair? Women have talents, skills and brains that society can benefit from! Why can Dads be dads and also productive members of society!

You do know the story of Japan? Women are choosing not to become mothers because of the unequal treatment of women! I am not encouraging my dds to become mothers! If the population dies out so be it.

I’m saying that mothers would be much happier if the focused solely on being moms when their children are young. They very well may have talents/brain/skills society can benefit from, but the discussion about happiness and purpose are two separate ones. The vast majority of career women have jobs, not careers, and it is ironic that women supporting feminism parrot the incredulous lie that working 45 hours per week as Regional Sales Manager to Management is worth more to women than being home with their child. It is certainly worth more to your company that you spend those hours click-clacking on your laptop, but it won’t make you happier. I think the female resentment is symptomatic that some women are waking up like “what the hell am I doing, getting sucked dry for $35/hr?” but the market absolutely cannot allow her to consider quitting so - quick! - blame her DH and they can fight about who cleans gutters so that no one stops and says “wait, who is actually getting all our time?”

Why should moms be the ones who stay at home when the children are young? What makes you think they find dealing with infants anymore fulfilling than dads do?

NP I agree with that, it shouldn't necessarily be moms, but one of the child's parents ought to do it. I think you'll find that many infants do not find dealing with the daycare environment and daycare workers as fulfilling as being home with a loving parent.

If you're not going to pay my share of the bills than don't tell my husband or I should quit our jobs to be stay at home parents. In this area it's pretty challenging to live off one income and pay a mortgage or rent much less giving up niceties.