Wall Street Journal on rampant growth in percentage of college students with “disabilities”

[Anonymous]

We can go back and forth about individual cases but here is how I think about it on a systemic level. Let's take the example of a kid that scores in the 95 percentile in a bunch of metrics but the 20 percentile in one and thus qualifies as disabled.

There are some people who seem to think that this kid is really a 95 percentile kid with just some sort of issue preventing his ability from being truly recognized. That's not really accurate. Their kid is a kid with many strengths but also clear weaknesses.

it is unfair for the weaknesses to hamper the kid to such an extent that he is not able to display his strengths. So if he was getting a 30 percentile score on the test I would take that as evidence that the test did not truly reflect his ability.

Giving accommodations so that the kid ends up with a 95 percentile score is also not fair to all the other kids who also are hard working, who also want to go to good colleges, who also have their own strengths and weaknesses, because a 95 percentile score is ALSO not actually reflective of his abilities. Because his abilities are in fact limited, just like everyone else's, it's just they are limited in a way that we can better measure and try to address with novel learning techniques now that we know more about the human brain. But they still exist. The reality is this is probably a 70 percentile kid when all these factors are considered.

And then to get on the internet and brag about how your "gifted" kid smoked all the other kids is really both myopic and cruel. And if done on a mass scale will limit (and has limited) the enthusiasm of parents whose kids don't get extra time or a calculator but sure as shit could get higher scores with it to put up with the system you are trying to create.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

Every kid makes careless mistakes. Every kid could use the extended time to go back and check their answers.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
We can go back and forth about individual cases but here is how I think about it on a systemic level. Let's take the example of a kid that scores in the 95 percentile in a bunch of metrics but the 20 percentile in one and thus qualifies as disabled.

There are some people who seem to think that this kid is really a 95 percentile kid with just some sort of issue preventing his ability from being truly recognized. That's not really accurate. Their kid is a kid with many strengths but also clear weaknesses.

it is unfair for the weaknesses to hamper the kid to such an extent that he is not able to display his strengths. So if he was getting a 30 percentile score on the test I would take that as evidence that the test did not truly reflect his ability.

Giving accommodations so that the kid ends up with a 95 percentile score is also not fair to all the other kids who also are hard working, who also want to go to good colleges, who also have their own strengths and weaknesses, because a 95 percentile score is ALSO not actually reflective of his abilities. Because his abilities are in fact limited, just like everyone else's, it's just they are limited in a way that we can better measure and try to address with novel learning techniques now that we know more about the human brain. But they still exist. The reality is this is probably a 70 percentile kid when all these factors are considered.

And then to get on the internet and brag about how your "gifted" kid smoked all the other kids is really both myopic and cruel. And if done on a mass scale will limit (and has limited) the enthusiasm of parents whose kids don't get extra time or a calculator but sure as shit could get higher scores with it to put up with the system you are trying to create.

Here is what you do not understand. An average kid without a documented disability who gets extra time will not significantly improve his or her score. That is because the average kid does not have the intellectual capacity to answer the questions correctly. People keep saying to give extra time across the board, but the truth is that you will be disappointed with your average kid's results. A kid with a documented disability like dyslexia or ADHD would improve their score significantly with the extra time because that is the biggest factor holding them back. Unlike your average, some of these kids are brilliant and are able to demonstrate that with the extended time. If you really want to improve your average kid's score, why don't you just get him some tutoring or have him do more practice tests on his own.

[Anonymous]

Here’s where it makes sense to separate out what is and is not being tested and why. If what’s being tested is accuracy under time pressure, then extra time makes no sense. If what’s being tested is understanding of and ability to apply mathematical concepts, then extra time does make sense, and so might calculators (which is why AP Calc allows them universally). If what’s being tested is knowledge of math facts, then calculators make no sense.

Throw into the mix an oligopolistic market for standardized tests (maybe it’s almost a natural monopoly situation) in which CB’s customer is ambiguous (students vs universities) and its desire to sell the most product incentivizes setting a relatively low bar wrt content being tested. Yet the product is useless if it doesn’t rank/differentiate. So throw in time pressure. Not because it’s something that matters or because colleges want that data but because it’s a relatively cheap/easy way to produce a normal distribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

Yup, we win. Because he is a genius being held back by a disability. Do you see now? Your average kid will never be able to get a perfect score...even with double or triple time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

Yup, we win. Because he is a genius being held back by a disability. Do you see now? Your average kid will never be able to get a perfect score...even with double or triple time.

Actually my son is not average - without accommodations. So maybe we win?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

Yup, we win. Because he is a genius being held back by a disability. Do you see now? Your average kid will never be able to get a perfect score...even with double or triple time.

Actually my son is not average - without accommodations. So maybe we win?

Oh, I see. Below average then. Maybe you should get an evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

Yup, we win. Because he is a genius being held back by a disability. Do you see now? Your average kid will never be able to get a perfect score...even with double or triple time.

Actually my son is not average - without accommodations. So maybe we win?

Oh, I see. Below average then. Maybe you should get an evaluation.

DP. You sound awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

Yup, we win. Because he is a genius being held back by a disability. Do you see now? Your average kid will never be able to get a perfect score...even with double or triple time.

Actually my son is not average - without accommodations. So maybe we win?

Oh, I see. Below average then. Maybe you should get an evaluation.

You wish that. So very badly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

Yup, we win. Because he is a genius being held back by a disability. Do you see now? Your average kid will never be able to get a perfect score...even with double or triple time.

Actually my son is not average - without accommodations. So maybe we win?

Oh, I see. Below average then. Maybe you should get an evaluation.

You wish that. So very badly.

Almost as much as you wish disabled kids could just be considered dumb instead of getting the assistance they so need and deserve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As an infant, my daughter had crossed eyes. Strabismus is a condition that can be treated a number of ways and affects many people both rich and poor. We chose to have surgery. There are many children who don't have access to healthcare that have the same condition as my daughter. They grow up with crossed eyes. This puts them at a disadvantage because of the way they look. Fortunately we had the access and means to make that surgery happen and today she is a beautiful young woman with straight eyes. The fact that others do not have access does not mean my daughter should not have had the surgery, correct? Because the argument seems to be that wealthy people should not have an advantage over poor people. I keep hearing that over and over again. The sad truth is that poor people are disadvantaged and always will be no matter how much money we throw at the problem. It is unfortunate, but it does not mean that others should do without.

I can’t understanf how you arrived at such a conclusion. What is being argued is that people w many privileges already are using their wealth and connections to gain bogus accomodations for their children. Unless u are a member of the private prep school scene, you have no idea. And it is not difficult to get an accomodation - we are talking of people w many connections also.

I am the PP. My son goes to a private all boys high school, so I am familiar with the scene. He is on accommodations, which is why I have been following this thread. He is hardly getting bogus accommodations. I don't ask him what friends have accommodations. I don't think it is any of my business.

This thread has not just been about bogus accommodations. There are people saying that everyone should get extra time. There are people saying that accommodations should not be given, period. And some are just attacking the wealthy because somehow we should not be allowed to use our resources to get our kids help.

My DS was diagnosed with ADHD and slow processing in elementary school. He has been using accommodations throughout elementary, middle, and high school. Basically he gets extended time. He used to get preferential seating, but he doesn't seem to need it as much now that he has matured. I would not consider him a "severe" case.

Years ago, before the awareness, he may have been considered a trouble maker. Why? Because he has a hard time sitting still and focusing. Medication is not an option because of side effects, so we have been dealing with it organically. Recently, we had had him work with a tutor to help him prep for the ACT, and the tutor always tells me that any errors he makes on practice tests have been careless errors (errors of calculation--not knowledge of how to do a problem). The tutor helped him realize what was happening and to help him to take a breath and go back, slow down, and check everything. DS did amazingly well on the ACT, because he is gifted and has high working memory. On the other hand, his processing speed is severely low. He is one of these 2E kids people have been discussing. I am grateful that he was able to get the accommodations to truly demonstrate his intelligence and knowledge. He got a 36 on the ACT, and while he is not interested in going to a top 10 school, we have our eyes set on some selective schools.

I know people may consider this a bogus accommodation simply because DS scored so high. As much as you would like to believe this, it is simply not true. Without the accommodations, we don't know for sure what he would have gotten, but he would have made those careless errors, and that perfect score would not have been possible. And because we have the means to help him, we are the evil wealthy that are "gaming the system." Say what you want, but I will NOT let my kid fail by denying him something that will help him succeed and that he is clearly and legally entitled to. I have friends who do not have the same access to finances that we do who also have 2E kids, and they managed to help their kids utilizing the public school resources. One even was able to get her daughter an IEP. So you don't need wealth to help your kids. The money only provides convenience, access to more testing, and other conveniences like tutoring, etc.

I am tired of the attack on the wealthy and privileged. I grew up with no privilege to speak of. Neither of my parents went to college and my family was extremely dysfunctional. I grew up on the third floor of a tenement house with crumbling walls. I was not encouraged nor did not go to college until after I worked for a few years and then took classes at night time eventually getting a degree. Today for various reasons, I am able to give my kids what I did not have growing up, and I will NOT have someone tell me I don't or he doesn't deserve it. I worked my ass off for what I have and I do not appreciate the derogatory comments about my status or how I decide to spend my money.

This is just absurd to me. He needed accommodations to get a perfect score? Do you even hear yourself?
Of course you are going to be all self righteous about it. Go on with your big bad self in your privledged little bubble.
Your son is a genius (with accommodations). You win.

Yup, we win. Because he is a genius being held back by a disability. Do you see now? Your average kid will never be able to get a perfect score...even with double or triple time.

Actually my son is not average - without accommodations. So maybe we win?

Oh, I see. Below average then. Maybe you should get an evaluation.

You wish that. So very badly.

Almost as much as you wish disabled kids could just be considered dumb instead of getting the assistance they so need and deserve.

Now you're just making $hit up. Good day, fine sir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
We can go back and forth about individual cases but here is how I think about it on a systemic level. Let's take the example of a kid that scores in the 95 percentile in a bunch of metrics but the 20 percentile in one and thus qualifies as disabled.

There are some people who seem to think that this kid is really a 95 percentile kid with just some sort of issue preventing his ability from being truly recognized. That's not really accurate. Their kid is a kid with many strengths but also clear weaknesses.

it is unfair for the weaknesses to hamper the kid to such an extent that he is not able to display his strengths. So if he was getting a 30 percentile score on the test I would take that as evidence that the test did not truly reflect his ability.

Giving accommodations so that the kid ends up with a 95 percentile score is also not fair to all the other kids who also are hard working, who also want to go to good colleges, who also have their own strengths and weaknesses, because a 95 percentile score is ALSO not actually reflective of his abilities. Because his abilities are in fact limited, just like everyone else's, it's just they are limited in a way that we can better measure and try to address with novel learning techniques now that we know more about the human brain. But they still exist. The reality is this is probably a 70 percentile kid when all these factors are considered.

And then to get on the internet and brag about how your "gifted" kid smoked all the other kids is really both myopic and cruel. And if done on a mass scale will limit (and has limited) the enthusiasm of parents whose kids don't get extra time or a calculator but sure as shit could get higher scores with it to put up with the system you are trying to create.

We have cut-offs for all things. Maybe all of us would like that great parking space at the front of the store, but we don't all qualify for a handicap placard. I might have some days where I am really sore, or sick, or could otherwise use it. Maybe I'm just generally out of shape, or depressed, or have low iron, and have long (even life-long) periods of it being challenging making it to the store from the back of the parking lot. That doesn't mean I rise to the level of disabled. I don't have it as easy as the in shape, or mentally healthy, or person with perfect iron. I don't have it as bad as the person who's a paraplegic. We aren't all equal, and when we set up systems we try to make it as reasonable as possible for everyone.

And yes, there are wealthy people who can get their doctors to sign off on a handicap placard that they might be borderline for. I don't think it's reasonable to do away with all handicap spaces just because there are some people gaming the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We can go back and forth about individual cases but here is how I think about it on a systemic level. Let's take the example of a kid that scores in the 95 percentile in a bunch of metrics but the 20 percentile in one and thus qualifies as disabled.

There are some people who seem to think that this kid is really a 95 percentile kid with just some sort of issue preventing his ability from being truly recognized. That's not really accurate. Their kid is a kid with many strengths but also clear weaknesses.

it is unfair for the weaknesses to hamper the kid to such an extent that he is not able to display his strengths. So if he was getting a 30 percentile score on the test I would take that as evidence that the test did not truly reflect his ability.

Giving accommodations so that the kid ends up with a 95 percentile score is also not fair to all the other kids who also are hard working, who also want to go to good colleges, who also have their own strengths and weaknesses, because a 95 percentile score is ALSO not actually reflective of his abilities. Because his abilities are in fact limited, just like everyone else's, it's just they are limited in a way that we can better measure and try to address with novel learning techniques now that we know more about the human brain. But they still exist. The reality is this is probably a 70 percentile kid when all these factors are considered.

And then to get on the internet and brag about how your "gifted" kid smoked all the other kids is really both myopic and cruel. And if done on a mass scale will limit (and has limited) the enthusiasm of parents whose kids don't get extra time or a calculator but sure as shit could get higher scores with it to put up with the system you are trying to create.

Here is what you do not understand. An average kid without a documented disability who gets extra time will not significantly improve his or her score. That is because the average kid does not have the intellectual capacity to answer the questions correctly. People keep saying to give extra time across the board, but the truth is that you will be disappointed with your average kid's results. A kid with a documented disability like dyslexia or ADHD would improve their score significantly with the extra time because that is the biggest factor holding them back. Unlike your average, some of these kids are brilliant and are able to demonstrate that with the extended time. If you really want to improve your average kid's score, why don't you just get him some tutoring or have him do more practice tests on his own.

No one is talking about average kids. The debate topic is high performing students. Both high performing students with and WITHOUT disabilities score higher when given extra time. No one is talking about the kids who without any accommodations score 1000 on the SAT or an ACT score of 20. Students who are scoring in the 80th or 90th percentile rank are panicking because that's not good enough for top colleges. If you can score better than 90% of the population without any accommodations, is it fair to get extra time to score in the 98th percentile rank? You just aren't that disabled to begin with if are doing better than 9 out if 10 students. Affluent parents realize this and have increasingly shopped around for sympathetic psychologists. If a psychologist who has a business privately testing has a reputation of not recommending extra time and being conservative with a diagnosis, they aren't going to stay in business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What concerns me from a related article is the statement that wealthier students are more likely to receive accommodations than poor students.

What happens when these kids graduate college? Is an employer going to give a person who takes twice as long to do something the same salary as someone who meets deadlines?

I’d be concerned about this. Of course there are plenty of teens with legitimate disabilities but there is also a subsection that are just gaming the system to their advantage. Won’t be able to do that once they have a real job though, will they?