APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

CAFs need to stop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

I'm not sure what happened at Hamm, but I know what happened with Innovation. There were 4 kindergarten classes this year, FWIW.

1. There was a lot of uncertainty about how many neighborhood kids would transfer to the new Key location. Key supporters said many would not move, but in the end almost everyone went.
2. A lot of space was left for students from new developments in the pipeline. For example, Queens Court (a CAF building) was not open at the beginning of the 21-22 school year but now is. Also, Marbella Apartments are being redeveloped into two high rise towers (also CAF) that will produce another at least 100 kids for the elementary school. That's not counting all of the market rate buildings that are going up. Those will have some kids, but obviously not on the scale of the CAF buildings.
3. 5th graders were grandfathered in at ASFS if they wanted, so the 5th grade was particularly small last year.

Enrollment has been steadily growing since the school opened. The Sept 2021 count was 397 including preschool, February 2023 (most recent on the website right now) was 488.

What do they think the capacity is of Innovation. Close to 300 kids are expected in 2025 from Marbella. I don’t know the capacity of the school but I’m really wondering how the math works. Will they add additional trailers there?

NM. It looks like they have the capacity of Innovation at 653. Maybe that works if Marbella is the last CAF building assigned there?

If just Marbella, probably yes, but the documents suggest moving planning units from ASFS to Innovation to relieve them a bit. Either way, both of those schools are needed so it’s good Key was moved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

I'm not sure what happened at Hamm, but I know what happened with Innovation. There were 4 kindergarten classes this year, FWIW.

1. There was a lot of uncertainty about how many neighborhood kids would transfer to the new Key location. Key supporters said many would not move, but in the end almost everyone went.
2. A lot of space was left for students from new developments in the pipeline. For example, Queens Court (a CAF building) was not open at the beginning of the 21-22 school year but now is. Also, Marbella Apartments are being redeveloped into two high rise towers (also CAF) that will produce another at least 100 kids for the elementary school. That's not counting all of the market rate buildings that are going up. Those will have some kids, but obviously not on the scale of the CAF buildings.
3. 5th graders were grandfathered in at ASFS if they wanted, so the 5th grade was particularly small last year.

Enrollment has been steadily growing since the school opened. The Sept 2021 count was 397 including preschool, February 2023 (most recent on the website right now) was 488.

What do they think the capacity is of Innovation. Close to 300 kids are expected in 2025 from Marbella. I don’t know the capacity of the school but I’m really wondering how the math works. Will they add additional trailers there?

NM. It looks like they have the capacity of Innovation at 653. Maybe that works if Marbella is the last CAF building assigned there?

If just Marbella, probably yes, but the documents suggest moving planning units from ASFS to Innovation to relieve them a bit. Either way, both of those schools are needed so it’s good Key was moved.

I think they will move the CAFS to Innovation- even some of the ASFS ones- bc they want Innovation to be the Title 1 school. I thinking they prefer to concentrate the kids needing services bc it’s more efficient for them. I think that’s been the plan all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

I'm not sure what happened at Hamm, but I know what happened with Innovation. There were 4 kindergarten classes this year, FWIW.

1. There was a lot of uncertainty about how many neighborhood kids would transfer to the new Key location. Key supporters said many would not move, but in the end almost everyone went.
2. A lot of space was left for students from new developments in the pipeline. For example, Queens Court (a CAF building) was not open at the beginning of the 21-22 school year but now is. Also, Marbella Apartments are being redeveloped into two high rise towers (also CAF) that will produce another at least 100 kids for the elementary school. That's not counting all of the market rate buildings that are going up. Those will have some kids, but obviously not on the scale of the CAF buildings.
3. 5th graders were grandfathered in at ASFS if they wanted, so the 5th grade was particularly small last year.

Enrollment has been steadily growing since the school opened. The Sept 2021 count was 397 including preschool, February 2023 (most recent on the website right now) was 488.

What do they think the capacity is of Innovation. Close to 300 kids are expected in 2025 from Marbella. I don’t know the capacity of the school but I’m really wondering how the math works. Will they add additional trailers there?

NM. It looks like they have the capacity of Innovation at 653. Maybe that works if Marbella is the last CAF building assigned there?

If just Marbella, probably yes, but the documents suggest moving planning units from ASFS to Innovation to relieve them a bit. Either way, both of those schools are needed so it’s good Key was moved.

I think they will move the CAFS to Innovation- even some of the ASFS ones- bc they want Innovation to be the Title 1 school. I thinking they prefer to concentrate the kids needing services bc it’s more efficient for them. I think that’s been the plan all along.

It’s going to be Title 1 no matter what since it’s already at 36% and rising. The question is whether they let it be a “reasonable” 50% or throw in Woodbury Park to rank it the whole way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

I'm not sure what happened at Hamm, but I know what happened with Innovation. There were 4 kindergarten classes this year, FWIW.

1. There was a lot of uncertainty about how many neighborhood kids would transfer to the new Key location. Key supporters said many would not move, but in the end almost everyone went.
2. A lot of space was left for students from new developments in the pipeline. For example, Queens Court (a CAF building) was not open at the beginning of the 21-22 school year but now is. Also, Marbella Apartments are being redeveloped into two high rise towers (also CAF) that will produce another at least 100 kids for the elementary school. That's not counting all of the market rate buildings that are going up. Those will have some kids, but obviously not on the scale of the CAF buildings.
3. 5th graders were grandfathered in at ASFS if they wanted, so the 5th grade was particularly small last year.

Enrollment has been steadily growing since the school opened. The Sept 2021 count was 397 including preschool, February 2023 (most recent on the website right now) was 488.

What do they think the capacity is of Innovation. Close to 300 kids are expected in 2025 from Marbella. I don’t know the capacity of the school but I’m really wondering how the math works. Will they add additional trailers there?

NM. It looks like they have the capacity of Innovation at 653. Maybe that works if Marbella is the last CAF building assigned there?

If just Marbella, probably yes, but the documents suggest moving planning units from ASFS to Innovation to relieve them a bit. Either way, both of those schools are needed so it’s good Key was moved.

I think they will move the CAFS to Innovation- even some of the ASFS ones- bc they want Innovation to be the Title 1 school. I thinking they prefer to concentrate the kids needing services bc it’s more efficient for them. I think that’s been the plan all along.

It’s going to be Title 1 no matter what since it’s already at 36% and rising. The question is whether they let it be a “reasonable” 50% or throw in Woodbury Park to rank it the whole way.

They will move Woodbury Park to “leverage efficiencies.” My point was that they only want one Title 1 elementary there. They want to consolidate everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

Cardinal's location wasn't really "picked." APS built there because they own the land (although McKinley was overcrowded at the time - but not 731 seats overcrowded). They system needed the seats, thus the shuffle to use the Key building where it was needed in Courthouse and close down McKinley when Cardinal opened.

Ooh. Ooh! Gather around children, and I will tell you the story of Cardinal elementary. It’s a cautionary tale. Long ago, seats were needed in N Arlington. So a school was built at Discovery and a large addition was put on McKinley (now ATS). Then, Arlington needed more seats to the south and east. But the only building space owned by APS that was appropriate for an elementary was to the north in Westover. Enter the O.G. Of N Arlington whiners. Westover residents. They extracted a completely unreasonable promise from multiple school board members (Kanninen, van doren, that crew) that they would stand down, if APS built them a neighborhood elementary on that site. Never mind that no seats were needed there. So that is what happened. This lead to the ridiculously expensive cascading school moves for innovation, key, ATS, and McKinley—when they could have just moved key to Westover. But because the seats were never needed around Westover, they ended up with boundaries pushed far further south and east than they wanted. And many of those who insisted that Westover have a neighborhood school are now in danger of being bussed to Tuckahoe! And Cardinal now has many busses from the old McKinley. We don’t need seats in this area. We need to move option schools to make seats in the south. I suspect that is what will happen to Nottingham after it is used as swing space. And they richly deserve it for refusing to take any additional planning units during the era of extreme over crowding before Discovery was built. That was back in the heyday when North Arlington whiners got whatever they wanted from the school board. Karma’s a relaxing thought!

This story leaves a few things out. Before Discovery was built, APS wanted to build the new elementary at Westover, perhaps along with an addition at Nottingham. But the Westover whiners opposed it. That's how we got Discovery, even though it isn't a good place for an elementary school.

Also weird to accuse Nottingham of refusing to take additional planning units in the era of extreme overcrowding before Discovery was built. Let's review. In that era, Nottingham was at 140% capacity, and it was the most overcrowded school in the system. No one proposed sending more kids to them, but this PP thinks they should have somehow taken even more. Good god, what is wrong with people?

Maybe PP is thinking about the 2018 go round when Notties tried to throw Tuckahoe and then McKinley under the bus. So many options to choose from.

Pretty sure they are thinking all the way back to the even older process . . . Nottingham is just going to have to face reality that all the new schools and lower enrollment in NA means this may make sense. They aren’t tearing the school down. They are repurposing it. Boundaries will be redrawn. It’ll be one for the ages.

[Anonymous]

It will be. Nottingham isn’t going to take this sitting down. Do you know who they are?! They are definitely going to want to speak to a supervisor!!

[Anonymous]

Out of curiosity, what is the plan for the 100+ kids that will result from the massive Toll Brothers development at Wilson and McKinley? Cardinal is full. What about Ashlawn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity, what is the plan for the 100+ kids that will result from the massive Toll Brothers development at Wilson and McKinley? Cardinal is full. What about Ashlawn?

I have a suspicion that eventually they will move Campbell up to Nottingham and renovate and expand the old Campbell building into a new neighborhood school. That will free up space at Carlin Springs for kids N of 50 to be rezoned (probably same PUs that track to Kenmore), thus freeing up space at Ashlawn.

[Anonymous]

If I’m Nottingham, I’m all over that. Why close it if they need a place for kids from that huge development. They can send those kids to Tuckahoe easily but not if they close Nottingham and move half of Tuckahoe there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I’m Nottingham, I’m all over that. Why close it if they need a place for kids from that huge development. They can send those kids to Tuckahoe easily but not if they close Nottingham and move half of Tuckahoe there.

That's entirely too rational for APS to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I’m Nottingham, I’m all over that. Why close it if they need a place for kids from that huge development. They can send those kids to Tuckahoe easily but not if they close Nottingham and move half of Tuckahoe there.

Of course, students from that development would be bus riders and drop offs, and EVERYONE WILL DIE if there’s more bus riders at Nottingham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

AND promises were made to Westover businesses not to allow an option school before the grand scheme of school swaps was announced.

Cardinal's location wasn't really "picked." APS built there because they own the land (although McKinley was overcrowded at the time - but not 731 seats overcrowded). They system needed the seats, thus the shuffle to use the Key building where it was needed in Courthouse and close down McKinley when Cardinal opened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

Cardinal's location wasn't really "picked." APS built there because they own the land (although McKinley was overcrowded at the time - but not 731 seats overcrowded). They system needed the seats, thus the shuffle to use the Key building where it was needed in Courthouse and close down McKinley when Cardinal opened.

Ooh. Ooh! Gather around children, and I will tell you the story of Cardinal elementary. It’s a cautionary tale. Long ago, seats were needed in N Arlington. So a school was built at Discovery and a large addition was put on McKinley (now ATS). Then, Arlington needed more seats to the south and east. But the only building space owned by APS that was appropriate for an elementary was to the north in Westover. Enter the O.G. Of N Arlington whiners. Westover residents. They extracted a completely unreasonable promise from multiple school board members (Kanninen, van doren, that crew) that they would stand down, if APS built them a neighborhood elementary on that site. Never mind that no seats were needed there. So that is what happened. This lead to the ridiculously expensive cascading school moves for innovation, key, ATS, and McKinley—when they could have just moved key to Westover. But because the seats were never needed around Westover, they ended up with boundaries pushed far further south and east than they wanted. And many of those who insisted that Westover have a neighborhood school are now in danger of being bussed to Tuckahoe! And Cardinal now has many busses from the old McKinley. We don’t need seats in this area. We need to move option schools to make seats in the south. I suspect that is what will happen to Nottingham after it is used as swing space. And they richly deserve it for refusing to take any additional planning units during the era of extreme over crowding before Discovery was built. That was back in the heyday when North Arlington whiners got whatever they wanted from the school board. Karma’s a relaxing thought!

Largely correct. However, the Westover businesses were given a heads up that APS could move Key to Reed. They complained about potential traffic from an option school and were promised a neighborhood school instead. This was before anyone knew of the fantasical "cascading" plan you mention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually enough seats at neighboring schools though? Real seats in the building not trailers? I can handle moving but I will be unhappy if they move my kid out of a Nott classroom into a trailer at Tuckahoe.

The thing I don’t understand is how we needed cardinal to be built (the school opened two years ago) but now have such an excess of seats that we can close a school. Cardinal’s location was picked because there was a need for seats in that area. Why wasn’t there just an addition built at Nottingham or tuckahoe?
My eldest is in highschool so I was paying attention to all the meetings. I know they had slides showing why you needed a whole new school. I just don’t get why they were so wrong.
Similarly with Hamm— I was actually very involved/paying attention during the boundary discussion then and the site placement discussion. They were so wrong about the projected kids there. So many additional groups wanted to go to hamm, but there “wasn’t space”. Then the school open at 85% capacity! Same with innovation— there “wasn’t space” when they set up the boundary— and it opened at 70%? I think they only had 2 kindergarten classes the year they opened. The projections are so wrong, and the county is making huge monetary decisions based off of them. It’s fiscal irresponsibility!

Cardinal's location wasn't really "picked." APS built there because they own the land (although McKinley was overcrowded at the time - but not 731 seats overcrowded). They system needed the seats, thus the shuffle to use the Key building where it was needed in Courthouse and close down McKinley when Cardinal opened.

Ooh. Ooh! Gather around children, and I will tell you the story of Cardinal elementary. It’s a cautionary tale. Long ago, seats were needed in N Arlington. So a school was built at Discovery and a large addition was put on McKinley (now ATS). Then, Arlington needed more seats to the south and east. But the only building space owned by APS that was appropriate for an elementary was to the north in Westover. Enter the O.G. Of N Arlington whiners. Westover residents. They extracted a completely unreasonable promise from multiple school board members (Kanninen, van doren, that crew) that they would stand down, if APS built them a neighborhood elementary on that site. Never mind that no seats were needed there. So that is what happened. This lead to the ridiculously expensive cascading school moves for innovation, key, ATS, and McKinley—when they could have just moved key to Westover. But because the seats were never needed around Westover, they ended up with boundaries pushed far further south and east than they wanted. And many of those who insisted that Westover have a neighborhood school are now in danger of being bussed to Tuckahoe! And Cardinal now has many busses from the old McKinley. We don’t need seats in this area. We need to move option schools to make seats in the south. I suspect that is what will happen to Nottingham after it is used as swing space. And they richly deserve it for refusing to take any additional planning units during the era of extreme over crowding before Discovery was built. That was back in the heyday when North Arlington whiners got whatever they wanted from the school board. Karma’s a relaxing thought!

Largely correct. However, the Westover businesses were given a heads up that APS could move Key to Reed. They complained about potential traffic from an option school and were promised a neighborhood school instead. This was before anyone knew of the fantasical "cascading" plan you mention.

So APS is not at fault for that terrible prediction. Instead it’s N Arlington parents. And N Arlington parents should suck it now that Nottingham is under enrolled. APS needs to fight for us down south and you northerners are to blame. I mean, seriously? What is this ridiculouslness of this board? These idiots at APS appear to never get it right and yet you all are just screaming on here about the North-South divide and the terrible parents across the line who have star on their bellies. What a waste.