Violent SN kid in the classroom

[Anonymous]

Before everyone jumps at me, let me say I am too a mother of an SN DS. There's a boy in DS' first grade. The whole year DS has been coming home complaining that this boy is mean, punches kids, ends up in the principal's office. His mother is very in your face, she's very defensive whenever anyone complains. She refused IEP and accommodations in both K and 1st, now she has apparently come around, claiming her DS has "anxiety." Kids are afraid to go to recess because of him. He needs at least 2 adults to accompany him to lunch because he lashes out at others.

Several parents have e-mailed the principal specifically asking not to place their children in the same class next year. There's also some movement to ask for this kid to be completely removed from the class as he's a danger to others.

What is the right approach here? I am tired of DS coming home upset, with occasional bruises. FYI, this is a public school.

[Anonymous]

First grade teacher here. I am confused by the level of detail in your post - how do you know such private info about IEPs and accommodations? I have had a few instances where parents start to gossip about kids in this way and it is usually full of misinformation and never really goes anywhere good.

I am confused about a "movement" to ask for a child to be removed. Surely you must know that it doesn't work like that right?

Now to on what may actually be helpful:

-Parents should communicate their concerns to the school. Sometimes in my career I have really advocated for a child to get a one-on-one aid and the school was sluggish to move until parents made enough noise. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be sometimes.

-Communicate your concerns about your child's safety to the teacher and principal. Ask them for specific information about how your child is being kept safe. They can't talk to you about discipline of the other child, but they should be able to articulate a plan for keeping your child safe. This can push the school to address safety concerns.

[Anonymous]

Talk to the administration and push for help now, not contingent on and IEP. Under the "response to intervention" model the school ought to be able to start providing some help now. The school may be playing a game of chicken waiting for things to get so bad that the child is forced to withdraw and/or the need for an IEP is undeniable. This is horrible for everyone involved especially considering that the IEP could take a long time or be ineffective. Aggression alone (without a clear diagnosis of something else) is also really hard to fit into an IDEA category until it gets truly bad ... which is not what you want. Also as far as the other parents go - please refrain from assumptions, you have no idea what they are doing. And people always lay the blame on the parents when the school is equally if not more to blame.

Sorry, this is a hard situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talk to the administration and push for help now, not contingent on and IEP. Under the "response to intervention" model the school ought to be able to start providing some help now. The school may be playing a game of chicken waiting for things to get so bad that the child is forced to withdraw and/or the need for an IEP is undeniable. This is horrible for everyone involved especially considering that the IEP could take a long time or be ineffective. Aggression alone (without a clear diagnosis of something else) is also really hard to fit into an IDEA category until it gets truly bad ... which is not what you want. Also as far as the other parents go - please refrain from assumptions, you have no idea what they are doing. And people always lay the blame on the parents when the school is equally if not more to blame.

Sorry, this is a hard situation.

and ps: anxiety is actually a good hypothesis explaining aggression, so not sure why you are skeptical about that. Blaming the mom for how she has come to terms with issue is not really helpful. Unless you want her to go around saying "you are all right, my son is a horrible sociopath and must be removed from society!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Talk to the administration and push for help now, not contingent on and IEP. Under the "response to intervention" model the school ought to be able to start providing some help now. The school may be playing a game of chicken waiting for things to get so bad that the child is forced to withdraw and/or the need for an IEP is undeniable. This is horrible for everyone involved especially considering that the IEP could take a long time or be ineffective. Aggression alone (without a clear diagnosis of something else) is also really hard to fit into an IDEA category until it gets truly bad ... which is not what you want. Also as far as the other parents go - please refrain from assumptions, you have no idea what they are doing. And people always lay the blame on the parents when the school is equally if not more to blame.

Sorry, this is a hard situation.

and ps: anxiety is actually a good hypothesis explaining aggression, so not sure why you are skeptical about that. Blaming the mom for how she has come to terms with issue is not really helpful. Unless you want her to go around saying "you are all right, my son is a horrible sociopath and must be removed from society!"

Not helpful, but OP is frustrated that her child is bearing the brunt of the other child's anxiety. Venting online is not unhelpful for a lot of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First grade teacher here. I am confused by the level of detail in your post - how do you know such private info about IEPs and accommodations? I have had a few instances where parents start to gossip about kids in this way and it is usually full of misinformation and never really goes anywhere good.

I am confused about a "movement" to ask for a child to be removed. Surely you must know that it doesn't work like that right?

Now to on what may actually be helpful:

-Parents should communicate their concerns to the school. Sometimes in my career I have really advocated for a child to get a one-on-one aid and the school was sluggish to move until parents made enough noise. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be sometimes.

-Communicate your concerns about your child's safety to the teacher and principal. Ask them for specific information about how your child is being kept safe. They can't talk to you about discipline of the other child, but they should be able to articulate a plan for keeping your child safe. This can push the school to address safety concerns.

OP here. The mother of the boy in question is very vocal about pretty much everything in her life, she blabbed about IEP many times. Parents, incl. myself, did communicate our issues to the school. That's why this boy now has extra adults watching him but it's clearly not enough. He is able to get into squabbles at the bus stop, at the gym, etc.

And yes, I don't want him to be in the same class with DS. I am tired of hearing about kids getting harmed by this bully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Talk to the administration and push for help now, not contingent on and IEP. Under the "response to intervention" model the school ought to be able to start providing some help now. The school may be playing a game of chicken waiting for things to get so bad that the child is forced to withdraw and/or the need for an IEP is undeniable. This is horrible for everyone involved especially considering that the IEP could take a long time or be ineffective. Aggression alone (without a clear diagnosis of something else) is also really hard to fit into an IDEA category until it gets truly bad ... which is not what you want. Also as far as the other parents go - please refrain from assumptions, you have no idea what they are doing. And people always lay the blame on the parents when the school is equally if not more to blame.

Sorry, this is a hard situation.

and ps: anxiety is actually a good hypothesis explaining aggression, so not sure why you are skeptical about that. Blaming the mom for how she has come to terms with issue is not really helpful. Unless you want her to go around saying "you are all right, my son is a horrible sociopath and must be removed from society!"

Not helpful, but OP is frustrated that her child is bearing the brunt of the other child's anxiety. Venting online is not unhelpful for a lot of people.

Yeah I get that but part of her frustration seems rooted in a perception that the other mother is violating her son's rights on purpose or out of ignorance, which most likely is not true.

[Anonymous]

Hey Op, I hear you. These are usually long journeys. And most likely the principal is getting emails from a lot of parents- asking that the child in question is not in their kids class. However, since it is a public school- he will by default is someones homeroom.

I would also tread lightly on believing what the other mom is saying. I am a SN mom and special education teacher. I am constantly presented with 'truth' about kids that is far off the mark.

If its ES there might be a BES placement some where down the line- but that would be decided by the IEP team- not concerned parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. The mother of the boy in question is very vocal about pretty much everything in her life, she blabbed about IEP many times. Parents, incl. myself, did communicate our issues to the school. That's why this boy now has extra adults watching him but it's clearly not enough. He is able to get into squabbles at the bus stop, at the gym, etc.

And yes, I don't want him to be in the same class with DS. I am tired of hearing about kids getting harmed by this bully.

You're out of line, OP, and showing your biases. I'm sorry for what's happening but that child is not a bully and you should stop calling him that. There is a big difference between a child who knowingly bullies other children because he feels good tormenting other people, and a child who can't control his outbursts. I'm sad for your child but I'm also sad for the other child. A first-grader is awfully young to incur such wrath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First grade teacher here. I am confused by the level of detail in your post - how do you know such private info about IEPs and accommodations? I have had a few instances where parents start to gossip about kids in this way and it is usually full of misinformation and never really goes anywhere good.

I am confused about a "movement" to ask for a child to be removed. Surely you must know that it doesn't work like that right?

Now to on what may actually be helpful:

-Parents should communicate their concerns to the school. Sometimes in my career I have really advocated for a child to get a one-on-one aid and the school was sluggish to move until parents made enough noise. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be sometimes.

-Communicate your concerns about your child's safety to the teacher and principal. Ask them for specific information about how your child is being kept safe. They can't talk to you about discipline of the other child, but they should be able to articulate a plan for keeping your child safe. This can push the school to address safety concerns.

Teacher, thank you for this thoughtful response. My child was subject to this kind of misinformation. Other parents were spreading all kinds of outrageous, ill-informed gossip, while the truth was that we had been fighting for months to get an IEP and it was the school that was resisting every step of the way and was causing many of the issues. OP, please don't judge the other mother. You have no idea what she is going through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talk to the administration and push for help now, not contingent on and IEP. Under the "response to intervention" model the school ought to be able to start providing some help now. The school may be playing a game of chicken waiting for things to get so bad that the child is forced to withdraw and/or the need for an IEP is undeniable. This is horrible for everyone involved especially considering that the IEP could take a long time or be ineffective. Aggression alone (without a clear diagnosis of something else) is also really hard to fit into an IDEA category until it gets truly bad ... which is not what you want. Also as far as the other parents go - please refrain from assumptions, you have no idea what they are doing. And people always lay the blame on the parents when the school is equally if not more to blame.

Sorry, this is a hard situation.

I just want to say this is a perfect response to OP's post. It's sensitive to the child and the other family, but proactive. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. The mother of the boy in question is very vocal about pretty much everything in her life, she blabbed about IEP many times. Parents, incl. myself, did communicate our issues to the school. That's why this boy now has extra adults watching him but it's clearly not enough. He is able to get into squabbles at the bus stop, at the gym, etc.

And yes, I don't want him to be in the same class with DS. I am tired of hearing about kids getting harmed by this bully.

You're out of line, OP, and showing your biases. I'm sorry for what's happening but that child is not a bully and you should stop calling him that. There is a big difference between a child who knowingly bullies other children because he feels good tormenting other people, and a child who can't control his outbursts. I'm sad for your child but I'm also sad for the other child. A first-grader is awfully young to incur such wrath.

Bullying can and does happen by kids with special needs.

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. The behavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.

The safety of all children is paramount. The rights of the victimizer do not trump the rights of the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bullying can and does happen by kids with special needs.

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. The behavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.

The safety of all children is paramount. The rights of the victimizer do not trump the rights of the rest.

I'm wondering if you have a child with SN. There are many reasons why a child with SN would become aggressive and none of them have to do with a real or perceived power imbalance. Anxiety is one of the more common reasons. Not saying aggression is excused but we have no indication that it is bullying in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bullying can and does happen by kids with special needs.

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. The behavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.

The safety of all children is paramount. The rights of the victimizer do not trump the rights of the rest.

I'm wondering if you have a child with SN. There are many reasons why a child with SN would become aggressive and none of them have to do with a real or perceived power imbalance. Anxiety is one of the more common reasons. Not saying aggression is excused but we have no indication that it is bullying in this case.

What you meant to say is, "There are many reasons why a child with SN would become aggressive and only one of them has to do with a real or perceived power imbalance." Kids with SN can be bullies in the ordinary sense of the word. Kids with SN can also be aggressive and/or violent without being bullies.

[Anonymous]

What you meant to say is, "There are many reasons why a child with SN would become aggressive and only one of them has to do with a real or perceived power imbalance." Kids with SN can be bullies in the ordinary sense of the word. Kids with SN can also be aggressive and/or violent without being bullies.

Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks!