Violent SN kid in the classroom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First grade teacher here. I am confused by the level of detail in your post - how do you know such private info about IEPs and accommodations? I have had a few instances where parents start to gossip about kids in this way and it is usually full of misinformation and never really goes anywhere good.

I am confused about a "movement" to ask for a child to be removed. Surely you must know that it doesn't work like that right?

Now to on what may actually be helpful:

-Parents should communicate their concerns to the school. Sometimes in my career I have really advocated for a child to get a one-on-one aid and the school was sluggish to move until parents made enough noise. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be sometimes.

-Communicate your concerns about your child's safety to the teacher and principal. Ask them for specific information about how your child is being kept safe. They can't talk to you about discipline of the other child, but they should be able to articulate a plan for keeping your child safe. This can push the school to address safety concerns.

A kd who needs one on one or two on one aide to student ratio specifically for violence does not belong in the general school population.

Their least restrictive environment should be a self contained classroom or if that does not work, a school for disturbed children if they are consistently violent and a danger to the safety of other children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First grade teacher here. I am confused by the level of detail in your post - how do you know such private info about IEPs and accommodations? I have had a few instances where parents start to gossip about kids in this way and it is usually full of misinformation and never really goes anywhere good.

I am confused about a "movement" to ask for a child to be removed. Surely you must know that it doesn't work like that right?

Now to on what may actually be helpful:

-Parents should communicate their concerns to the school. Sometimes in my career I have really advocated for a child to get a one-on-one aid and the school was sluggish to move until parents made enough noise. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be sometimes.

-Communicate your concerns about your child's safety to the teacher and principal. Ask them for specific information about how your child is being kept safe. They can't talk to you about discipline of the other child, but they should be able to articulate a plan for keeping your child safe. This can push the school to address safety concerns.

Document, document, document, and suggest to other parents that they do the same. I would guess that you need to follow up with the school in writing each and every time that there is an "incident" involving your DC. It's possible (not likely, but possible) that there's an angle you're missing, but at this point it seems like it would be reasonable to meet with the principal (or???) and say that your DC reports that he has been repeatedly assaulted by this child--with dates if possible. How does the school intend to prevent further episodes, and/or what should you do if your DC reports another episode?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First grade teacher here. I am confused by the level of detail in your post - how do you know such private info about IEPs and accommodations? I have had a few instances where parents start to gossip about kids in this way and it is usually full of misinformation and never really goes anywhere good.

I am confused about a "movement" to ask for a child to be removed. Surely you must know that it doesn't work like that right?

Now to on what may actually be helpful:

-Parents should communicate their concerns to the school. Sometimes in my career I have really advocated for a child to get a one-on-one aid and the school was sluggish to move until parents made enough noise. It shouldn't be that way, but it can be sometimes.

-Communicate your concerns about your child's safety to the teacher and principal. Ask them for specific information about how your child is being kept safe. They can't talk to you about discipline of the other child, but they should be able to articulate a plan for keeping your child safe. This can push the school to address safety concerns.

A kd who needs one on one or two on one aide to student ratio specifically for violence does not belong in the general school population.

Their least restrictive environment should be a self contained classroom or if that does not work, a school for disturbed children if they are consistently violent and a danger to the safety of other children.

No, if the school environment is bad, an aide may be what it takes to let the kid get by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bullying can and does happen by kids with special needs.

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior among school aged children that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. The behavior is repeated, or has the potential to be repeated, over time. Both kids who are bullied and who bully others may have serious, lasting problems.

The safety of all children is paramount. The rights of the victimizer do not trump the rights of the rest.

I'm wondering if you have a child with SN. There are many reasons why a child with SN would become aggressive and none of them have to do with a real or perceived power imbalance. Anxiety is one of the more common reasons. Not saying aggression is excused but we have no indication that it is bullying in this case.

I wonder how long until this kind of escuse of violent behavior ends up creating a Dylan Klebold type young man.

At some point, violence is just violence. Two adults to one six year old to prevent violent attacks (regular bruising?) on classmates is a little extreme for just a symptom of anxiety.

Seriously? We are talking about a 6 year old.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine how long and protracted the process would be to try and get a child transferred to a special Ed only school if the parents do not even agree to an IEP.

[Anonymous]

It's hard to help a child when the parent is in denial.
The child may only be 6, but at our private, two different boys have inflicted harm on classmates.
My son, in second grade, came home with bruises several times from one boy. I was told, when I asked, that the boy was 'in therapy, the parents are working with us on this' ...
But no one works with the parents whose children are hurt by such kids. At our tony little private, no one even called me about the two separate incidents--I had to ask.
There's really No Simple Solution. But I do feel that a violent kid with a history of hurting classmates should, at the least, be suspended for a time until he gets himself together.
Regardless of being 'only 6' ...

[Anonymous]

Suspension will not help the kid get himself together though.

I suggest Lost at School by Ross Greene. OP could suggest it to the school as a model that will help make things better:

http://www.lostatschool.org

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I wonder how long until this kind of escuse of violent behavior ends up creating a Dylan Klebold type young man.

At some point, violence is just violence. Two adults to one six year old to prevent violent attacks (regular bruising?) on classmates is a little extreme for just a symptom of anxiety.

Maybe you've got a different information sources than me, but I haven't seen any evidence that Dylan Klebold did not have a history of violence beginning at age 6. His violence problem seems to have started in middle school or high school. Adam Lanza, also did not have a history of violence, but he definitely was a special needs child who never received the services he needed.

So not an excuse, but the child definitely needs some help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to help a child when the parent is in denial.
The child may only be 6, but at our private, two different boys have inflicted harm on classmates.
My son, in second grade, came home with bruises several times from one boy. I was told, when I asked, that the boy was 'in therapy, the parents are working with us on this' ...
But no one works with the parents whose children are hurt by such kids. At our tony little private, no one even called me about the two separate incidents--I had to ask.
There's really No Simple Solution. But I do feel that a violent kid with a history of hurting classmates should, at the least, be suspended for a time until he gets himself together.
Regardless of being 'only 6' ...

Wow. Maybe you should consider public. Our Title 1 school in FCPS is excellent about contacting us about issues that have happened at school. It hasn't happened often but each time, the school communicated steps they were taking to ensure my kids remained safe and unharmed.

I wonder how you think a 6 year old will 'get himself together'. How does a suspension facilitate that?

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I meant "no evidence that Dylan Klebold DID have a history of violence beginning at age 6."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I wonder how long until this kind of escuse of violent behavior ends up creating a Dylan Klebold type young man.

At some point, violence is just violence. Two adults to one six year old to prevent violent attacks (regular bruising?) on classmates is a little extreme for just a symptom of anxiety.

Maybe you've got a different information sources than me, but I haven't seen any evidence that Dylan Klebold did [] have a history of violence beginning at age 6. His violence problem seems to have started in middle school or high school. Adam Lanza, also did not have a history of violence, but he definitely was a special needs child who never received the services he needed.

So not an excuse, but the child definitely needs some help.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry some parents are jumping on you, OP.

As a mother of two children, one of them with special needs, who were both assaulted by another child whose needs were not adequately met, it can be such an immensely frustrating experience to protect one's kids at school!

I would continue to fill out those bullying forms and request face-to-face meetings with the principal to document, document, document. Encourage other parents to do the same, because the school needs proof to make a special placement happen. Special placements can and do happen! It IS possible for the school to put pressure on the child's parents to admit the child to a different program within the public school system. But they have to pushed by other parents, because otherwise they're not going to do all that paperwork and organize all the necessary evaluations and schedule all those meetings, because they're already super busy. That's how public school works! Squeaky wheel...

In our case, too, I am acquainted with the mother, who is totally ineffectual with her son - he walks all over her and she demonstrates very poor parenting. It's not her fault she has a child with severe behavioral issues! But it is her fault when her son punches and kicks other children right in front of her and she does nothing. Or when she gives him an iPad and he immediately drops it and scratches the screen and she freaks out and makes him freak out. Well, duh. Everybody except her would have predicted that outcome. Etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm sorry some parents are jumping on you, OP.

As a mother of two children, one of them with special needs, who were both assaulted by another child whose needs were not adequately met, it can be such an immensely frustrating experience to protect one's kids at school!

I would continue to fill out those bullying forms and request face-to-face meetings with the principal to document, document, document. Encourage other parents to do the same, because the school needs proof to make a special placement happen. Special placements can and do happen! It IS possible for the school to put pressure on the child's parents to admit the child to a different program within the public school system. But they have to pushed by other parents, because otherwise they're not going to do all that paperwork and organize all the necessary evaluations and schedule all those meetings, because they're already super busy. That's how public school works! Squeaky wheel...

In our case, too, I am acquainted with the mother, who is totally ineffectual with her son - he walks all over her and she demonstrates very poor parenting. It's not her fault she has a child with severe behavioral issues! But it is her fault when her son punches and kicks other children right in front of her and she does nothing. Or when she gives him an iPad and he immediately drops it and scratches the screen and she freaks out and makes him freak out. Well, duh. Everybody except her would have predicted that outcome. Etc...

Sorry, no amount of organizing by other parents is going to get a child placed in a more restrictive setting out of general ed - especially if there is no other diagnosis - without a whole lot of procedure and other interventions. Especially if the child's parents do not agree.

[Anonymous]

This post is bothering me because there are a bunch of things in OP's description that don't ring true. First, it's almost impossible to imagine a public school system having the resources to assign two aides to control a child who is 7-years-old. It's even more unbelievable that those two aides would not be able to control that small child to the point where that child repeatedly is able to hit other children so hard they get bruises.

I'm also having trouble reconciling OP's apparent belief that this child has special needs with her lack of empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to help a child when the parent is in denial.
The child may only be 6, but at our private, two different boys have inflicted harm on classmates.
My son, in second grade, came home with bruises several times from one boy. I was told, when I asked, that the boy was 'in therapy, the parents are working with us on this' ...
But no one works with the parents whose children are hurt by such kids. At our tony little private, no one even called me about the two separate incidents--I had to ask.
There's really No Simple Solution. But I do feel that a violent kid with a history of hurting classmates should, at the least, be suspended for a time until he gets himself together.
Regardless of being 'only 6' ...

Wow. Maybe you should consider public. Our Title 1 school in FCPS is excellent about contacting us about issues that have happened at school. It hasn't happened often but each time, the school communicated steps they were taking to ensure my kids remained safe and unharmed.

I wonder how you think a 6 year old will 'get himself together'. How does a suspension facilitate that?

Suspension of a 6 yr old won't help the kid, but it may well push the parents to get an IEP for protection. Maybe that's the goal, but IMO schools ought to be offering interventions for behavioral issues wayy before it gets so bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm sorry some parents are jumping on you, OP.

As a mother of two children, one of them with special needs, who were both assaulted by another child whose needs were not adequately met, it can be such an immensely frustrating experience to protect one's kids at school!

I would continue to fill out those bullying forms and request face-to-face meetings with the principal to document, document, document. Encourage other parents to do the same, because the school needs proof to make a special placement happen. Special placements can and do happen! It IS possible for the school to put pressure on the child's parents to admit the child to a different program within the public school system. But they have to pushed by other parents, because otherwise they're not going to do all that paperwork and organize all the necessary evaluations and schedule all those meetings, because they're already super busy. That's how public school works! Squeaky wheel...

In our case, too, I am acquainted with the mother, who is totally ineffectual with her son - he walks all over her and she demonstrates very poor parenting. It's not her fault she has a child with severe behavioral issues! But it is her fault when her son punches and kicks other children right in front of her and she does nothing. Or when she gives him an iPad and he immediately drops it and scratches the screen and she freaks out and makes him freak out. Well, duh. Everybody except her would have predicted that outcome. Etc...

Sorry, no amount of organizing by other parents is going to get a child placed in a more restrictive setting out of general ed - especially if there is no other diagnosis - without a whole lot of procedure and other interventions. Especially if the child's parents do not agree.

PP you responded to. I've been in MCPS long enough to know that it happens, and as I said, it takes WORK. Parents don't know that they can contribute to this process, so I am letting OP know what she has to do.