MC police pick up ESS 5 year old; harass & assault him

[Anonymous]

Again, we don't know. The parents are saying it happened in the cameras, but I'd like to see the actual cameras. There is more to this. The child wasn't properly supervised and probably had needs greater than what staff could handle. Kids who are happy don't leave school grounds. Kids who are unhappy, threatened or something else going on leave school grounds.

Either way, it is a huge red flag for this center and this needs a full investigation.

It does appear the police were called before the child eloped, as he was in the middle of a meltdown so severe that his classmates were instructed to take cover under their desks.

A lot of people failed this child, and I think the administrators and teachers who witnessed the police abusing the child need to be held accountable. With that said, we can put to bed the idea that this child just wandered away unsupervised. The folks upthread who speculated that there was no way to restrain him were correct, it seems. Now, we can talk about whether MCPS should make it faster/easier to get a child with emotional disorders into a specialized placement with trained staff, but if a child is being violent, your average mainstream kindergarten teacher doesn't actually have a lot of tools at their disposal other than trying to keep the rest of the kids safe while the situation plays itself out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read through 37 pages of comments but I’ve read a lot of them. Do any of you realize that this is a cultural thing.

Black parents discipline their children differently than whites do in fact you can hear the mother say that. Both officers are black so it’s basically a black cultural discussion. As someone else said if everyone involved had been white you never would have heard of it.

Jawando, who has his own agenda to gain higher office, pushed his friend Chief Jones for a year to release this tape. Joe’s finally did with pressure from the CE. Jawando, who was rejected by MCPD years ago, will do anything to make the police department look bad. It’s as simple as that.

GTFOOHWTBS

There are many, many layers here, but this was not a frickin "cultural discussion." This was completely unacceptable abuse of power by the cops.

If everyone were white you would have ABSOLUTELY heard about this long ago and heads would have already rolled. But of course it would have been less likely to happen to a white child, specifically, in the first place. These officers being black-- but especially being police-- knew also that they could get away with a lot more with a black child.

Love to see people claim no racism-- and even no abuse!!-- was involved simply because the abuser and the victim were both POC.

Now THAT is racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Again, we don't know. The parents are saying it happened in the cameras, but I'd like to see the actual cameras. There is more to this. The child wasn't properly supervised and probably had needs greater than what staff could handle. Kids who are happy don't leave school grounds. Kids who are unhappy, threatened or something else going on leave school grounds.

Either way, it is a huge red flag for this center and this needs a full investigation.

It does appear the police were called before the child eloped, as he was in the middle of a meltdown so severe that his classmates were instructed to take cover under their desks.

A lot of people failed this child, and I think the administrators and teachers who witnessed the police abusing the child need to be held accountable. With that said, we can put to bed the idea that this child just wandered away unsupervised. The folks upthread who speculated that there was no way to restrain him were correct, it seems. Now, we can talk about whether MCPS should make it faster/easier to get a child with emotional disorders into a specialized placement with trained staff, but if a child is being violent, your average mainstream kindergarten teacher doesn't actually have a lot of tools at their disposal other than trying to keep the rest of the kids safe while the situation plays itself out.

They should have removed all the other kids from the classroom and had them wait in the hall or another classroom. Heads down is not protecting the other kids. A lot of what happened makes zero sense. Completely agree with your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read through 37 pages of comments but I’ve read a lot of them. Do any of you realize that this is a cultural thing.

Black parents discipline their children differently than whites do in fact you can hear the mother say that. Both officers are black so it’s basically a black cultural discussion. As someone else said if everyone involved had been white you never would have heard of it.

Jawando, who has his own agenda to gain higher office, pushed his friend Chief Jones for a year to release this tape. Joe’s finally did with pressure from the CE. Jawando, who was rejected by MCPD years ago, will do anything to make the police department look bad. It’s as simple as that.

GTFOOHWTBS

There are many, many layers here, but this was not a frickin "cultural discussion." This was completely unacceptable abuse of power by the cops.

If everyone were white you would have ABSOLUTELY heard about this long ago and heads would have already rolled. But of course it would have been less likely to happen to a white child, specifically, in the first place. These officers being black-- but especially being police-- knew also that they could get away with a lot more with a black child.

Love to see people claim no racism-- and even no abuse!!-- was involved simply because the abuser and the victim were both POC.

Now THAT is racist.

The discussion was inappropriate. It was the cops and mom chatting and laughing it up. The police should have calmly got down at the child's level with a firm voice and said when they have to get called for a child misbehaving its very serious. He could have been hit by a car, kidnapped or hurt without adult supervision. Its not ok to behave that way and if something is wrong at school, he needs to tell his parent for the police so they can help him. And, highlight that hitting teachers and kids is not ok. Destroying property is not ok and when he gets older they will not just bring him back to mom but arrest him and send him to jail or a youth detention facility.

I wonder if mom engaged so she could set them and the school up as if that was my child I'd take my child and leave after apologizing to the school and trying to get my child to apologize. The child wasn't fighting anyone. I have to wonder what is really going on as he was compliant for the most part. He either has SN, mental health issue, hungry, learning disability where he is struggling with academics and getting frustrated and is not getting the help he needs or something else. No one is taking the time to figure it out. It sounded though as if mom was partly to blame and not consenting to more supports as she thought he was fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the police officer transporting the child without a proper car seat?

A child hits another with a clipboard.
A child grabs another by the hair and slams their head.
A child hits the teacher.
A child breaks a $1000 computer.
A child leaves school property.
An officer of the law gets in that child’s face and screams at them and taunts them.
An officer of the law tells a child they are bad and encourages mom to whoop that child.
An officer of the law test drives a pair of handcuffs on a five year old.
A mom tells officers and a staff member she can’t beat her child because she’ll lose custody or go to jail but otherwise would.
A mom is suing the MCPD after joking around and smiling at the end of this debacle...

And you are concerned that a five and 1/2 year old is drive 2 blocks without a seatbelt? GMAFB!

This x 1000
Its all bad news. There was much more said than that. Those cops should be fired. That mom should get CPS in home help given the behavior of the child and mandated counseling.

Why is the adult in the room/who ever she is not talking to the child helping him calm down and guide him through the situation? The police scream at the kid but don't engage them and act like fools. The other adult is not helping the child either.

You forgot where mom strips the kid to show officers.
All the inappropriate conversations in front of the kid. Joking and laughing instead of talking to the child appropriately about behavior. They can call the kid bad but can't talk to the child about appropriate behavior. Get down on his level and talk to him calmly.
The name calling by the officers.
Those staff seem horrible. No wonder the kid is running.
Mom has no clue how to parent. She buys him toys then has them throw it away. She spanks and bribes but not work with him on behavior.
The police counseling was inappropriate. They have nothing to offer.
Mother calling kid retarded and other stuff. How she spoke to her child was just as terrible. The all three fed into each other.
No one is teaching this kid deescalation and alternatives to anger and frustration and how to get needs met. No one is listening to him, just yelling.
Mom knows he needs a therapist, didn't get him therapy and saying he doesn't need it.
Mom blaming the school and they are clearly part of the problem but he needs a different school environment.
Mom is just as bad, if not worse as she should have taken her child and left.
Mom is rambling about her and her beliefs.

No one is talking about the child or the child's needs or talking to the child to help figure out what is going on.
This child has SN - he only drinks pedisure and only recently started with chicken nuggets. She should have gotten him evaluated and feeding help as at 5, that's not normal. Pickly is normal, that is not.

Zero reason for Mom to sue as she acted the same way.

+1000000

Agreed

I don’t get the feeling the mom is going to put my money gained by a lawsuit towards the kid.

This is a money grab from the mom AND political posturing from Jawando, who wants to be on the national stage.

This poor kid doesn’t have a chance. My heart goes out to him.

Agree. Moms behavior was an equal problem so not sure why she is suing. Kid was not treated well but this is not sue worthy. Plus now this kid is branded on the internet forever.

She. Wants. Money.

Nobody actually seems to care about this little boy. Not even the mom, and definitely NOT Jawando. It feels like they are all using this incident to further their own agendas.

Good. For. Her.

Getting special education services for your child in MCPS
bankrupts families. This little bit deserves the help he needs
and that help is extremely expensive.

The Board of Education hates these families. They should have
to pay.

She isn't asking for special education services. Listen to the video. She says he's fine and doesn't need all that. The school made comments about a meeting set up for the next day and they were trying to put supports in place. It sounded like mom wasn't agreeing to a special placement. For most families, its a fight but when a child behaves this way, most schools want that child out and will support them moving to another school (now if its the right placement is a different issue).

[Anonymous]

Mom is absolute trash. Seems likely her child has ODD and needs a different placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FFS it's not a parent's SWORN DUTY TO THE COMMUNITY to be a perfect parent. The police especially should not have been verbally abusing this child, handcuffing him, or giving any behavioral advice whatsoever (but the last one isn't actionable). The admin should have obviously done more to deescalate.

But she is rightly suing even while being imperfect herself for the same reason you can legally curse out your kid on a bad day and even if we agree that's awful, CPS won't be involved-- but if a teacher, a coach, even a store employee did it, we would rightly demand they be fired. The employee cannot just "have a bad day" at their JOB with zero consequences. It is their JOB to not react like this. And what happened here with the police was much worse than cursing out-- and further it was not just reactive. They made a choice. They really didn't need to do any of this, not any more than bring him back to school. But they felt their power and they know people are intimidated by them and their authority and their guns. Disgusting.

Did they handcuff him? I just saw they pulled it out and threatened him. They physically put him in the car and in a chair and were a bit rough but it wasn't to the level of abuse. The police officers should be terminated for their conduct and they were out of line with their discussion with mom. This wasn't a casual friend, they were on duty.

I am not sure what to make of the school staff. They should have put an end to it and someone should have talked to the child about his behavior (again) but it was a difficult situation for them. They said they had a meeting set up for the next day. They gave the room per the request of mom or the police, i forget which. But, they had that kid sitting for what 40 minutes or so and not one person talked to him or thought about what he was hearing.

This mom LOVES her child. I don't think she was prepared to have him as he was a bonus child (from her comments). I think she was done parenting and then had to do it again. I don't think she was equip to handle his special needs and just parented as she did 20 years ago as it worked for her older child. Kids struggle with food at 1-2-3, but once they hit 3-4 and not eating anything and only drinking pedisure, its time get more help. I would guess this child has learning disabilities and is struggling with classwork, not getting the help he needs, not able to verbally communicate what he needs and instead of doing the work gets frustrated and acts out. Mom's parenting is very inconsistent. She uses threats, spanking, bribes and making the child throw away toys if he doesn't behave.

[Anonymous]

She isn't asking for special education services. Listen to the video. She says he's fine and doesn't need all that. The school made comments about a meeting set up for the next day and they were trying to put supports in place. It sounded like mom wasn't agreeing to a special placement. For most families, its a fight but when a child behaves this way, most schools want that child out and will support them moving to another school (now if its the right placement is a different issue).

I wish we didn't all know this, but anyone who has watched the video is aware that this was not the first time the child either eloped or tried to elope, and not the first time he'd been violent/destructive with teachers and peers.

This wasn't the "adjusting to kindergarten blues." It was a child in crisis, who needed a much different placement with teachers who are specially trained and a school facility designed for kids who try to escape.

Other than this poor kid, the person I feel the most sorry for here is the poor kindergarten teacher, who has to try to teach a class of 16 kids including at least one who needs a totally different kind of school placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS it's not a parent's SWORN DUTY TO THE COMMUNITY to be a perfect parent. The police especially should not have been verbally abusing this child, handcuffing him, or giving any behavioral advice whatsoever (but the last one isn't actionable). The admin should have obviously done more to deescalate.

But she is rightly suing even while being imperfect herself for the same reason you can legally curse out your kid on a bad day and even if we agree that's awful, CPS won't be involved-- but if a teacher, a coach, even a store employee did it, we would rightly demand they be fired. The employee cannot just "have a bad day" at their JOB with zero consequences. It is their JOB to not react like this. And what happened here with the police was much worse than cursing out-- and further it was not just reactive. They made a choice. They really didn't need to do any of this, not any more than bring him back to school. But they felt their power and they know people are intimidated by them and their authority and their guns. Disgusting.

Did they handcuff him? I just saw they pulled it out and threatened him. They physically put him in the car and in a chair and were a bit rough but it wasn't to the level of abuse. The police officers should be terminated for their conduct and they were out of line with their discussion with mom. This wasn't a casual friend, they were on duty.

I am not sure what to make of the school staff. They should have put an end to it and someone should have talked to the child about his behavior (again) but it was a difficult situation for them. They said they had a meeting set up for the next day. They gave the room per the request of mom or the police, i forget which. But, they had that kid sitting for what 40 minutes or so and not one person talked to him or thought about what he was hearing.

This mom LOVES her child. I don't think she was prepared to have him as he was a bonus child (from her comments). I think she was done parenting and then had to do it again. I don't think she was equip to handle his special needs and just parented as she did 20 years ago as it worked for her older child. Kids struggle with food at 1-2-3, but once they hit 3-4 and not eating anything and only drinking pedisure, its time get more help. I would guess this child has learning disabilities and is struggling with classwork, not getting the help he needs, not able to verbally communicate what he needs and instead of doing the work gets frustrated and acts out. Mom's parenting is very inconsistent. She uses threats, spanking, bribes and making the child throw away toys if he doesn't behave.

What special needs does he have?

[Anonymous]

I would guess this child has learning disabilities and is struggling with classwork, not getting the help he needs, not able to verbally communicate what he needs and instead of doing the work gets frustrated and acts out. Mom's parenting is very inconsistent. She uses threats, spanking, bribes and making the child throw away toys if he doesn't behave.

This is what really upsets me. How would you know this? If you're working for MCPS leaking information about this child, you're in violation of the child's Privacy Laws and need to be charged.

No one on this thread is asking the two most important questions here.

#1 Is there any time where the police has the right to treat a five-year-old this way? (hint the answer is 'no')

#2 How could MCPS "lose" a child? (hint that's a crime folks!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would guess this child has learning disabilities and is struggling with classwork, not getting the help he needs, not able to verbally communicate what he needs and instead of doing the work gets frustrated and acts out. Mom's parenting is very inconsistent. She uses threats, spanking, bribes and making the child throw away toys if he doesn't behave.

This is what really upsets me. How would you know this? If you're working for MCPS leaking information about this child, you're in violation of the child's Privacy Laws and need to be charged.

No one on this thread is asking the two most important questions here.

#1 Is there any time where the police has the right to treat a five-year-old this way? (hint the answer is 'no')

#2 How could MCPS "lose" a child? (hint that's a crime folks!)

You clearly didn't watch the video. MCPS didn't lose the child. The child walked out of the school and a school staff walked behind them at a distance and called the police. They aren't allowed to restrain or stop a child. The school handled that part properly.

The police were inappropriate. I wouldn't classify it as abuse but it was really bizarre behavior. They physically put the kid in the car but that's fine. They phyiscally put him a in a chair too.

The video lasted an hour with a very long discussion between Mom and the police. Put it on 1.5 speed. This was all information from Mom. The only thing the school said was we were meeting tomorrow to discuss what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FFS it's not a parent's SWORN DUTY TO THE COMMUNITY to be a perfect parent. The police especially should not have been verbally abusing this child, handcuffing him, or giving any behavioral advice whatsoever (but the last one isn't actionable). The admin should have obviously done more to deescalate.

But she is rightly suing even while being imperfect herself for the same reason you can legally curse out your kid on a bad day and even if we agree that's awful, CPS won't be involved-- but if a teacher, a coach, even a store employee did it, we would rightly demand they be fired. The employee cannot just "have a bad day" at their JOB with zero consequences. It is their JOB to not react like this. And what happened here with the police was much worse than cursing out-- and further it was not just reactive. They made a choice. They really didn't need to do any of this, not any more than bring him back to school. But they felt their power and they know people are intimidated by them and their authority and their guns. Disgusting.

Did they handcuff him? I just saw they pulled it out and threatened him. They physically put him in the car and in a chair and were a bit rough but it wasn't to the level of abuse. The police officers should be terminated for their conduct and they were out of line with their discussion with mom. This wasn't a casual friend, they were on duty.

I am not sure what to make of the school staff. They should have put an end to it and someone should have talked to the child about his behavior (again) but it was a difficult situation for them. They said they had a meeting set up for the next day. They gave the room per the request of mom or the police, i forget which. But, they had that kid sitting for what 40 minutes or so and not one person talked to him or thought about what he was hearing.

This mom LOVES her child. I don't think she was prepared to have him as he was a bonus child (from her comments). I think she was done parenting and then had to do it again. I don't think she was equip to handle his special needs and just parented as she did 20 years ago as it worked for her older child. Kids struggle with food at 1-2-3, but once they hit 3-4 and not eating anything and only drinking pedisure, its time get more help. I would guess this child has learning disabilities and is struggling with classwork, not getting the help he needs, not able to verbally communicate what he needs and instead of doing the work gets frustrated and acts out. Mom's parenting is very inconsistent. She uses threats, spanking, bribes and making the child throw away toys if he doesn't behave.

What special needs does he have?

Its unclear. However mom said the child only drinks pedisure and just started eating chicken nuggets. It had been suggested before she get him help but she doesn't think it would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would guess this child has learning disabilities and is struggling with classwork, not getting the help he needs, not able to verbally communicate what he needs and instead of doing the work gets frustrated and acts out. Mom's parenting is very inconsistent. She uses threats, spanking, bribes and making the child throw away toys if he doesn't behave.

This is what really upsets me. How would you know this? If you're working for MCPS leaking information about this child, you're in violation of the child's Privacy Laws and need to be charged.

No one on this thread is asking the two most important questions here.

#1 Is there any time where the police has the right to treat a five-year-old this way? (hint the answer is 'no')

#2 How could MCPS "lose" a child? (hint that's a crime folks!)

1) Absolutely not

2) The police were called before the child even eloped and a staff member followed at a distance. Unless you want untrained staff trying to restrain a child in the middle of a meltdown, that was the correct decision.

3) Everything the PP says is in the video, including details about discipline

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the police officer transporting the child without a proper car seat?

A child hits another with a clipboard.
A child grabs another by the hair and slams their head.
A child hits the teacher.
A child breaks a $1000 computer.
A child leaves school property.
An officer of the law gets in that child’s face and screams at them and taunts them.
An officer of the law tells a child they are bad and encourages mom to whoop that child.
An officer of the law test drives a pair of handcuffs on a five year old.
A mom tells officers and a staff member she can’t beat her child because she’ll lose custody or go to jail but otherwise would.
A mom is suing the MCPD after joking around and smiling at the end of this debacle...

And you are concerned that a five and 1/2 year old is drive 2 blocks without a seatbelt? GMAFB!

This x 1000
Its all bad news. There was much more said than that. Those cops should be fired. That mom should get CPS in home help given the behavior of the child and mandated counseling.

Why is the adult in the room/who ever she is not talking to the child helping him calm down and guide him through the situation? The police scream at the kid but don't engage them and act like fools. The other adult is not helping the child either.

You forgot where mom strips the kid to show officers.
All the inappropriate conversations in front of the kid. Joking and laughing instead of talking to the child appropriately about behavior. They can call the kid bad but can't talk to the child about appropriate behavior. Get down on his level and talk to him calmly.
The name calling by the officers.
Those staff seem horrible. No wonder the kid is running.
Mom has no clue how to parent. She buys him toys then has them throw it away. She spanks and bribes but not work with him on behavior.
The police counseling was inappropriate. They have nothing to offer.
Mother calling kid retarded and other stuff. How she spoke to her child was just as terrible. The all three fed into each other.
No one is teaching this kid deescalation and alternatives to anger and frustration and how to get needs met. No one is listening to him, just yelling.
Mom knows he needs a therapist, didn't get him therapy and saying he doesn't need it.
Mom blaming the school and they are clearly part of the problem but he needs a different school environment.
Mom is just as bad, if not worse as she should have taken her child and left.
Mom is rambling about her and her beliefs.

No one is talking about the child or the child's needs or talking to the child to help figure out what is going on.
This child has SN - he only drinks pedisure and only recently started with chicken nuggets. She should have gotten him evaluated and feeding help as at 5, that's not normal. Pickly is normal, that is not.

Zero reason for Mom to sue as she acted the same way.

+1000000

Agreed

I don’t get the feeling the mom is going to put my money gained by a lawsuit towards the kid.

This is a money grab from the mom AND political posturing from Jawando, who wants to be on the national stage.

This poor kid doesn’t have a chance. My heart goes out to him.

Agree. Moms behavior was an equal problem so not sure why she is suing. Kid was not treated well but this is not sue worthy. Plus now this kid is branded on the internet forever.

She. Wants. Money.

Nobody actually seems to care about this little boy. Not even the mom, and definitely NOT Jawando. It feels like they are all using this incident to further their own agendas.

Good. For. Her.

Getting special education services for your child in MCPS
bankrupts families. This little bit deserves the help he needs
and that help is extremely expensive.

The Board of Education hates these families. They should have
to pay.

She doesn’t seem to WANT special Ed services.

If she wanted money to get her child help, then good for her. But that doesn’t seem to be the case. I think she wants money, but it’s unlikely it gets set aside to help the poor child.

Where is the dad?? Does the dad get a say? Or do we just let the mom out this kid on blast so that this story follows him around for the rest of his life?

Again, this poor kid doesn’t have a chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

She doesn’t seem to WANT special Ed services.

If she wanted money to get her child help, then good for her. But that doesn’t seem to be the case. I think she wants money, but it’s unlikely it gets set aside to help the poor child.

Where is the dad?? Does the dad get a say? Or do we just let the mom out this kid on blast so that this story follows him around for the rest of his life?

Again, this poor kid doesn’t have a chance.

Hopefully the child will receive the needed services - not a bunch of commentary about how bad their mom is.