That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think there's a lot of people sympathizing with Brock, because they've behaved similarly in their past. And to call him a rapist is to call yourself a rapist, and no one wants to think of themselves as a rapist.

There also seems to be a lot of people here who don't want to admit that getting blitzed drunk and unconscious for hours is very dangerous. No one wants to think of themselves that way.

No one has claimed that getting drunk and passing out is good behavior. NO ONE. Doesn't have anything to do with this guy's guilt.

and I didn't say it did.

Every time you post, you excuse the rapist's behavior. You are part of the problem that led this guy to think that this was okay.

not this girl

me either. I have not excused his behavior in any of my posts

It's worse. Your posts aid and abet this kind of behavior. When you focus on what the victim did or didn't do, you excuse the rapist's behavior. When you state that something bad was bound to happen because she was drunk, you equate her rape to a bad hang-over. You create an environment where the woman is blamed for her own rape and where what happened to her is minimized.

You help rapists rape.

Not the PP, but go take your meds. You should also apologize to PP for this lunatic crap you are spewing at her. She isn't the person who assaulted you. Take your anger elsewhere.

She and her fellow travelers excuse rapists for their behavior. They create an environment where rapists can rape. That's not anger. That's a fact.

NO BODY is excusing this kid. Go take your meds and see if they help your reading comprehension. Then you can also apologize to PP.

Lots of folks posted up thread about how the kid was too drunk to know what he was doing, and that the victim was drunk, too, and it was just a regrettable drunken incident.

[Anonymous]

She passed out on a public street like a skid row bum. She did. That did not give this guy the right to assault her. But SHE is the one who drank herself into oblivion and passed out on a public street. To gloss over and give her a pass for allowing herself to get into such a state is a big mistake. That is my point. No one is saying that this excuses the actions of Brock. Brock is clearly responsible for what HE did. He is not responsible for what she did to herself.

How did you come to be on a first name basis with Brock?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think there's a lot of people sympathizing with Brock, because they've behaved similarly in their past. And to call him a rapist is to call yourself a rapist, and no one wants to think of themselves as a rapist.

There also seems to be a lot of people here who don't want to admit that getting blitzed drunk and unconscious for hours is very dangerous. No one wants to think of themselves that way.

No one has claimed that getting drunk and passing out is good behavior. NO ONE. Doesn't have anything to do with this guy's guilt.

and I didn't say it did.

Every time you post, you excuse the rapist's behavior. You are part of the problem that led this guy to think that this was okay.

not this girl

me either. I have not excused his behavior in any of my posts

It's worse. Your posts aid and abet this kind of behavior. When you focus on what the victim did or didn't do, you excuse the rapist's behavior. When you state that something bad was bound to happen because she was drunk, you equate her rape to a bad hang-over. You create an environment where the woman is blamed for her own rape and where what happened to her is minimized.

You help rapists rape.

Not the PP, but go take your meds. You should also apologize to PP for this lunatic crap you are spewing at her. She isn't the person who assaulted you. Take your anger elsewhere.

She and her fellow travelers excuse rapists for their behavior. They create an environment where rapists can rape. That's not anger. That's a fact.

having a discussion on dcum creates an environment where rapists can rape? are you insane? Ok let's go your route - let's NOT discuss it. let's shove it under the carpet.

It creates a culture in which victims are told every single day that if they are raped, it was their fault. They should have dressed differently or gone somewhere else or talked to a different guy or had fewer drinks. It focuses on the victim and not the victimizer. It creates an environment where victims can't come forward because they have learned through the culture that victims are to blame for their own rapes.

It's weird that you can't talk about rape without blaming the victim.

It's weird that you can't talk about the whole situation - not *just* the sexual assault part. These weren't two sober kids in a classroom. They were both exhibiting risky behaviors before the assault. If we are trying to keep our kids safe we teach them to avoid being in that situation in the first place.

What did we learn from this entire situation? Don't rape or assault anyone (Brock), don't put yourself in vulnerable positions (Emily), help others (Swedes). There are many lessons here that I will share with my kids.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Holy. Shit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/laurenduca/status/739505679635992577

Actually, the father is correct.

Both of them were drunk. Both. She was so drunk, she had no idea of anything, and didn't come-to until she was in the hospital, with no recollection. She was black-out drunk. While no one deserves to be raped, she placed herself in a very dangerous state. I do want to know where her friends were, where her sister was, where ANY responsible person was - probably drunk themselves. It would have been a cold day in hell, in college, when I would have left one of my friends (or a perfect stranger) alone, that dangerously drunk.

His son, in his drunken state, assaulted this girl. Very, very wrong. He IS taking responsibility for his actions. What disturbs me, is not only is she NOT taking responsibility for her own stupidity, but she has all the pity in the world. The net result of that is the message that people can get as stupid-drunk as they want and expect NO harm to come of them. That is NOT a message I have EVER given my children, and ever will.

This statement from the victim? “You took away my worth, my privacy, my energy, my time, my intimacy, my confidence, my own voice, until today,” she read in court from her victim impact statement,

What kind of worth does one have when one is so drunk, one can't even function? What kind of confidence? What kind of intimacy?

And this? "I was the wounded antelope of the herd, completely alone and vulnerable, physically unable to fend for myself, and he chose me."

She completely brushes aside her responsibility in becoming a 'wounded antelope'.


The judge did good in this case.

Probably in the minority on this forum but I completely agree with you. And for her to equate her experience with that if someone who is raped by a stranger (i.e. Pulled off the sidewalk without warning and raped with life threatened) trivializes the latter's assault. These crimes are absolutely different.

Rape is rape. I wasn't pulled off a street by a random but I was drugged and carried unconscious up to his dorm room. You think my experience in the aftermath of my rape is different bc I was drinking that night or bc I left my beer unattended with someone I thought was a friend? The only thing that makes my experience different than the violent stranger rape you describe, is that people like you would blame me for thinking I should be able to go out and have a beer w/o getting raped. Actually, people like you would probably also blame a victim of stranger rape for their clothing or the hour they were walking around at night. This woman was so drunk that she passed out unconscious. he was rejected by other more coherent women's that night - he chose her bc she couldn't fight back. Let me repeat, rape is rape.

The key point is that those other women rejected him and he backed off. He was not trying to force himself on anyone. And Emily Doe was not exactly a babe in the woods herself. She willingly left with this guy and she probably would have willingly engaged in sexual acts with him if she had not passed out. But she did pass out and he kept going...an obvious sexual assault.

This was going to be a regrettable night for Emily Doe whether she met up with this guy or not. If he had just backed off and left her alone she STILL would have been passed out behind a dumpster like a skid row bum.

He backed off because the other ones verbally rejected him. Daunted, he just went and found a girl who wasn't in great condition so he could take advantage of her, which he did. Please stop acting like he was some fine gentleman who called on ladies who were otherwise occupied and went about his merry way. He was a rapist who sought a victim and found one.

She was a college grad (or drop out) who had been to plenty of these parties before. I really don't see her as the "wounded antelope". I see him as a drunk, horny guy who jumped at the chance to leave a party with a woman with the purpose of having consensual sex. He didn't drag her out of there, they left together and probably fooled around a bit until she passed out. Instead of stopping he assaulted her.

Rapists generally don't go around parties making their intentions to rape clear to every woman there. But guys looking to hook up with willing women are a bit more obvious. Every woman at that party knew that this guy wanted action. And Emily Doe left with him...she probably was open to some action herself. But that ceased to be the case when she no longer knew what was happening to her.

see there is no way you can know this. we DON"T KNOW how they ended up behind the dumpster.

You seriously don't think that it wouldn't have been mentioned at the trial if someone had seen him dragging/carrying a passed out Emily Doe out of that party? I am going by what people actually did see him doing. I am also going by what I know to be fairly typical at these kinds of parties. The guy was coming onto women, most were rejecting him and apparently Emily Doe went with him. He didn't kidnap her, they left together. And at some point after that she passed out and wound up lying behind a dumpster being assaulted.

I didn't say that he dragged her. I didn't say that she went willingly. I said we DON'T KNOW.

But we do know that the twelve jurors, who heard all the evidence, unanimously found him guilty of three counts of felony sexual assault.

Yeah, no kidding. Maybe that's because he was GUILTY of sexually assaulting a passed out woman behind a dumpster. But he was not found guilty (or as far as I know accused of) rape, kidnapping, fraud, murder, mayhem, drunk driving...

Just stick with what he actually DID do and stop trying to convict him of things that he has not even been accused of doing. There is no need for that. It only serves to make what he actually did do sound made up.

[Anonymous]

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She passed out on a public street like a skid row bum. She did. That did not give this guy the right to assault her. But SHE is the one who drank herself into oblivion and passed out on a public street. To gloss over and give her a pass for allowing herself to get into such a state is a big mistake. That is my point. No one is saying that this excuses the actions of Brock. Brock is clearly responsible for what HE did. He is not responsible for what she did to herself.

How did you come to be on a first name basis with Brock?

I'm lazy. Brock is shorter than "the assailant" and more accurate than "the rapist". You do read meaning into things, don't you. Lol.

[Anonymous]

If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party, I'm going to talk to her about making better decisions in the future.

If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party and gets raped, I'm going to tell her it's not her fault and place 100% blame on the rapist.

I think it's how we'd all want our daughters treated, so why not support this young woman the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party, I'm going to talk to her about making better decisions in the future.

If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party and gets raped, I'm going to tell her it's not her fault and place 100% blame on the rapist.

I think it's how we'd all want our daughters treated, so why not support this young woman the same way.

I would say that the majority on this thread are supporting the woman. very few posters have said the boy was NOT guilty (I think someone blamed his actions on alcohol).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think the PP's comparison to drunken driving is apt. Someone who kills a person while driving drunk may not be an evil human being or a risk to others generally speaking. But most of us would agree that being intoxicated doesn't absolve you of responsibility for any harm done while you're behind the wheel.

On that basis, it seems like the Stanford guy should be held responsible for any and all crimes he committed while intoxicated, even if he's unlikely to do anything like that ever again and even if it was the alcohol that impaired his judgment.

But I agree with some of the PPs about the responsibility of the woman in this situation. Not legal responsibility of course, but personal responsibility. Her impaired judgment played a huge role in what happened to her, and her choices caused that impaired judgment. (As opposed to someone who is drugged without their knowledge or someone who is mentally impaired.)

Anyone who gets hit by a bus is a victim, and deserves sympathy as well as justice. But if you were high or drunk out of your mind and wandering in the middle of the street, you are partially responsible for what has happened to you. Getting blackout drunk isn't the same thing as wearing a short skirt.

I say that as someone who did a lot of stupid things in college, and I look at this woman and think there but for the grace of God....Hopefully all our kids, both boys and girls, will look at this story and take the lesson that binge drinking is a ticket to terrible, terrible situations.

This is disgusting and ignorant. I don't think anybody would agree that it was a great idea for her to be blackout drunk. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped. The problem here is not that she got drunk, it's that this guy thought he could rape her. Rape is not okay. Ever. It's not excused. Ever. It's illegal. Just because she was drunk does not then mean she should be raped. She was a victim, you idiot. If she's supposed to know better by not getting so drunk, why should he not know better than to commit a crime? Rape is rape. It's illegal. Doesn't matter what the victim was doing. Period. She was raped. Illegally. Because rape is illegal. I'm trying to get the point across by saying this multiple ways, but I don't think you'll get it anyway.

No one said she *deserved* to be raped. Yes, obviously rape is wrong. But she chose to drink excessively and put herself in a vulnerable position. She has to at least take responsibility for that. It's more than a "bad idea" - it's being irresponsible with her own personal safety.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a lot of people sympathizing with Brock, because they've behaved similarly in their past. And to call him a rapist is to call yourself a rapist, and no one wants to think of themselves as a rapist.

There also seems to be a lot of people here who don't want to admit that getting blitzed drunk and unconscious for hours is very dangerous. No one wants to think of themselves that way.

No one has claimed that getting drunk and passing out is good behavior. NO ONE. Doesn't have anything to do with this guy's guilt.

and I didn't say it did.

Every time you post, you excuse the rapist's behavior. You are part of the problem that led this guy to think that this was okay.

not this girl

me either. I have not excused his behavior in any of my posts

It's worse. Your posts aid and abet this kind of behavior. When you focus on what the victim did or didn't do, you excuse the rapist's behavior. When you state that something bad was bound to happen because she was drunk, you equate her rape to a bad hang-over. You create an environment where the woman is blamed for her own rape and where what happened to her is minimized.

You help rapists rape.

Not the PP, but go take your meds. You should also apologize to PP for this lunatic crap you are spewing at her. She isn't the person who assaulted you. Take your anger elsewhere.

She and her fellow travelers excuse rapists for their behavior. They create an environment where rapists can rape. That's not anger. That's a fact.

having a discussion on dcum creates an environment where rapists can rape? are you insane? Ok let's go your route - let's NOT discuss it. let's shove it under the carpet.

It creates a culture in which victims are told every single day that if they are raped, it was their fault. They should have dressed differently or gone somewhere else or talked to a different guy or had fewer drinks. It focuses on the victim and not the victimizer. It creates an environment where victims can't come forward because they have learned through the culture that victims are to blame for their own rapes.

It's weird that you can't talk about rape without blaming the victim.

It's weird that you can't talk about the whole situation - not *just* the sexual assault part. These weren't two sober kids in a classroom. They were both exhibiting risky behaviors before the assault. If we are trying to keep our kids safe we teach them to avoid being in that situation in the first place.

What did we learn from this entire situation? Don't rape or assault anyone (Brock), don't put yourself in vulnerable positions (Emily), help others (Swedes). There are many lessons here that I will share with my kids.

You're going to teach your daughter that if she gets sexually assaulted, it's her fault because she screwed up. Good luck getting her to confide in you if something bad happens. You're Parent of the Year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party, I'm going to talk to her about making better decisions in the future.

If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party and gets raped, I'm going to tell her it's not her fault and place 100% blame on the rapist.

I think it's how we'd all want our daughters treated, so why not support this young woman the same way.

That's how a mother should treat a daughter, certainly. Unconditional love, no judgement.

We're not Ms. Doe's mother. We can have a discussion about what she is or is not responsible for.

[Anonymous]

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This was going to be a regrettable night for Emily Doe whether she met up with this guy or not. If he had just backed off and left her alone she STILL would have been passed out behind a dumpster like a skid row bum.

And you know this how? Did she tell you she was planning to pass out behind a dumpster? Do you feel good about yourself for disparaging another human being?

She drank until she passed out. She passed out because she drank. She was going to pass out somewhere. As it turns out, she left a party alone with a 19 year old college kid who had no intention of bringing her back to his dorm room. She may have walked herself behind that dumpster to fool around with him and passed out while they were fooling around, she may have passed out on the sidewalk or in an alleyway or...anywhere. She could have met up with someone a lot scarier and more violent than Brock.

Do you not see that she made choices that were not going to end well for her that night? I am not "disparaging" this woman but she was not doing a good job of looking out for herself and she is responsible for some of the regrettable choices made that night. She did not deserve to get assaulted - nor is her assailant getting away with assaulting her. But she also is responsible for own regrettable actions.

It's not disparaging to compare a woman who was sexually attacked while unconscious to a skid row bum? Really?

She passed out on a public street like a skid row bum. She did. That did not give this guy the right to assault her. But SHE is the one who drank herself into oblivion and passed out on a public street. To gloss over and give her a pass for allowing herself to get into such a state is a big mistake. That is my point. No one is saying that this excuses the actions of Brock. Brock is clearly responsible for what HE did. He is not responsible for what she did to herself.

No one is giving her a pass for that. And her hangover is on her. And if she's embarrassed by the drunk voicemail she left for her boyfriend, that's on her. But she didn't make the choices connected with the assault because SHE WAS UNCONSCIOUS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

She passed out on a public street like a skid row bum. She did. That did not give this guy the right to assault her. But SHE is the one who drank herself into oblivion and passed out on a public street. To gloss over and give her a pass for allowing herself to get into such a state is a big mistake. That is my point. No one is saying that this excuses the actions of Brock. Brock is clearly responsible for what HE did. He is not responsible for what she did to herself.

How did you come to be on a first name basis with Brock?

I'm lazy. Brock is shorter than "the assailant" and more accurate than "the rapist". You do read meaning into things, don't you. Lol.

Not PP, but you do sound awfully sympathetic to the rapist. Poor, poor Brock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party, I'm going to talk to her about making better decisions in the future.

If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party and gets raped, I'm going to tell her it's not her fault and place 100% blame on the rapist.

I think it's how we'd all want our daughters treated, so why not support this young woman the same way.

That's how a mother should treat a daughter, certainly. Unconditional love, no judgement.

We're not Ms. Doe's mother. We can have a discussion about what she is or is not responsible for.

Agreed. This is DCUM where we get to discuss things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party, I'm going to talk to her about making better decisions in the future.

If my daughter gets blackout drunk at a party and gets raped, I'm going to tell her it's not her fault and place 100% blame on the rapist.

I think it's how we'd all want our daughters treated, so why not support this young woman the same way.

That's how a mother should treat a daughter, certainly. Unconditional love, no judgement.

We're not Ms. Doe's mother. We can have a discussion about what she is or is not responsible for.

If you're interested in creating a culture in which rape is excusable, sure. But don't kid yourself about the fact that you are excusing rape and blaming the victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the PP's comparison to drunken driving is apt. Someone who kills a person while driving drunk may not be an evil human being or a risk to others generally speaking. But most of us would agree that being intoxicated doesn't absolve you of responsibility for any harm done while you're behind the wheel.

On that basis, it seems like the Stanford guy should be held responsible for any and all crimes he committed while intoxicated, even if he's unlikely to do anything like that ever again and even if it was the alcohol that impaired his judgment.

But I agree with some of the PPs about the responsibility of the woman in this situation. Not legal responsibility of course, but personal responsibility. Her impaired judgment played a huge role in what happened to her, and her choices caused that impaired judgment. (As opposed to someone who is drugged without their knowledge or someone who is mentally impaired.)

Anyone who gets hit by a bus is a victim, and deserves sympathy as well as justice. But if you were high or drunk out of your mind and wandering in the middle of the street, you are partially responsible for what has happened to you. Getting blackout drunk isn't the same thing as wearing a short skirt.

I say that as someone who did a lot of stupid things in college, and I look at this woman and think there but for the grace of God....Hopefully all our kids, both boys and girls, will look at this story and take the lesson that binge drinking is a ticket to terrible, terrible situations.

This is disgusting and ignorant. I don't think anybody would agree that it was a great idea for her to be blackout drunk. But that doesn't mean she deserved to be raped. The problem here is not that she got drunk, it's that this guy thought he could rape her. Rape is not okay. Ever. It's not excused. Ever. It's illegal. Just because she was drunk does not then mean she should be raped. She was a victim, you idiot. If she's supposed to know better by not getting so drunk, why should he not know better than to commit a crime? Rape is rape. It's illegal. Doesn't matter what the victim was doing. Period. She was raped. Illegally. Because rape is illegal. I'm trying to get the point across by saying this multiple ways, but I don't think you'll get it anyway.

No one said she *deserved* to be raped. Yes, obviously rape is wrong. But she chose to drink excessively and put herself in a vulnerable position. She has to at least take responsibility for that. It's more than a "bad idea" - it's being irresponsible with her own personal safety.

She did, she admitted that she drank too much. Being irresponsible with your own personal safety doesn't mean rape should be the consequence. It is the guy's fault, he was the one who acted illegally by sexually assaulting her. Just stop correlating it to her drinking. He chose to act illegally, not her.