Palisades Fire - Los Angeles

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why doesn’t the wind in Europe result in massive wild fires?

You’re not so bright are you?

NP

Why do you have to be such an a-hole? Do you think it’s helpful?


Her question is a legitimate one. I’d bet a lot of people wonder the same thing.

Maybe because most of Europe isn’t a frickin desert?

27 square miles burned. Horrific. So terrible that nothing could be done to prevent this disaster or facilitate evacuation.

But the codes in Europe are much stricter than in US. There's a lot of wood houses there. I do get that in an earthquake scenario, wood is better than concrete but just saying - fires are really dangerous in LA because so many of their SFH are wood based.

The bolded is flatly untrue. Where do people get these crazy ideas?

You are an idiot. It is well known that new construction in the US does not fare as well as most of Europe's new construction.

Have you seen the quality of our roads v theirs? That would be your first clue. Next, most Americans focus on big and cheap. Be honest. You really contest this view? US homeownership focuses on transactions - it's appeal v quality. The prioritization is on new construction/turnover - in Europe, the build is for generations.

In Europe and in many older American neighborhoods, you'll see brick and stone. These days, new construction is wood framing. There are def some parts in the US that have stringent local codes but by and large, most of Europe have stricter codes and regulations that focus on sustainability, durability and energy efficiency. Finally, US labor costs are sky high - cutting corners and getting it done quickly and cheaply means that new construction is typically not very high quality. Not saying every house, but frequently, that's what you'll find.

Just look at European food regulations - Europe highly regulates almost everything more than we do in the US. It's somewhat a cultural thing but it's real.

That’s why half of United States looks like siding shanty towns after 15 years

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

I don't really understand what you have in mind - like a continuous spray? Water isn't unlimited - hydrants in some of these areas are already running dry as firefighters use them. And any active system would presumably require power and somebody to man it. Plus spraying water in 100 mpg gusts probably not effective.

I know this kind of fire is unfamiliar to east coasters, I'm not mocking. But it's much bigger and faster than you are imagining. You're basically asking why Florida doesn't have some kind of pump to keep hurricanes out.

As with hurricanes, there are new building methods that help. Burying the power lines would be a huge help, but that's expensive and CA allowed it's power utility to be privatized. This is really a story of climate change + bad infrastructure decisions.

Have you ever seen crop irrigation systems, they implement rotating water cannons to cover large swaths of land. Install some of these and only turn them on when a fire is happening and a neighborhood is in danger. It’s not a complex idea.

LOL asking someone from CA if they've seen a crop sprinkler. Uh, yes, I have.
I tried to nicely explain already, but it's clear you are not familiar with fires, the terrain, or the water or electricity situation. But sure, you solved it, good job.

Yeah, still not sure how this idea isnt better than nothing. A quick google search shows that apparently there are companies that do provide this service. Adapting it to be an integral part of a community’s infrastructure would make sense.

https://www.wildfirewater.com/

I think this area would be hard because it is all hills and houses. There isn't space to put a massive sprinkler system.

I assume planes can scoop up water from the ocean to fight the fire? I am not sure how that works.

No you can’t dump sea water all over the land because you will salt the soil and nothing will ever grow there again.

You may not realize it, but I think you’re on to something. The grass growing then dying is the problem. More of them need rock gardens and to stop unwanted regrowing of brush

It's not the grass on the lawns that is the main culprit; it is the dry brush on the hillsides and canyons. Clearly some posters are very unfamiliar with California topography.

So maybe don't build homes there?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:These homes start at $2.5M and go up rapidly from there. I bet most of these folks were self-insured.

This represents a huge, extremely wealthy chunk of the Los Angeles county tax base. Lots of families with young kids. It's as if a wild fire completely destroyed CCMD and adjacent neighborhoods in upper NW DC.

This disaster will upend Los Angeles's budget - lots of costs to clean up but also lots of these people will move away. It will only be partially rebuilt, likely with multi-family housing. The entire area will be rebuilt much differently.

No. They will remain single family homes. People rebuild. There’s no way pacific palisades, Malibu or anywhere near the Ocean front will be anything less than multimillion dollar property. This will not affect anything. These people love their lifestyle and paradise there.

If anything, the mildly rich will be replaced by the very rich.

Exactly. My family was never uber rich but comfortable upper middle class and wouldn’t be able to start over in the same place. Many neighbors were regular jobs like electricians and teachers who bought in the 70s, 80s, paid off home and continued on. They will never be able to rebuild and live in the same communities. It’s sad.

My friend in Palisades lost his home. It was a multimillion dollar home but that was his main asset. He doesn't have millions squirreled away to rebuild. A lot of people end up in the position that they could never afford to buy their own home even 5 years later with the way real estate prices increase. I don't know what these people will do, there are millions of them.

Same in FL. People just won’t come back or will sell at a loss.

The real enemy here are the insurance companies. They raised rates in FL now they are cancelling CA right in the thick of the season.

I have no love for insurance companies, but they are really not the enemy here. They are raising rates in line with actual increases in risk. They could raise rates, cancel policies, or become insolvent and unable to pay out a major incident...end result is the same.

Plus the California state regulators put forth several conditions which the insurance companies deemed unacceptable.
Seeing similar actions in Florida.

So insurance companies are now only going to insure homes that aren't even at any risk ever, so they can maximize profits. Sounds an awful lot like the pre-ACA times of preventing folks with pre-existing conditions from getting health insurance. It's not sustainable.

No homes have zero risk. Insurance companies would run out of customers at that point so, no, it won't be like that.

Insurers have been leaving California for years: https://www.barrons.com/articles/california-fires-home-insurers-news-5ef3449f

[Anonymous]

First of all, I feel for all of the people impacted by the fires. It's a terrible disaster. In times like these those who have had their homes destroyed deserve nothing but sympathy, offers of warm meals, and homes that are open to them and help cleaning up.

For those of you who had nothing but empathy for those in Western North Carolina but find yourselves finding fault with those near LA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. They've just been through a major tragedy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know if any of you have bothered to notice, but the North Hollywood fire is contained.

Palisades is still 0% contained which is very unfortunate.

We drove out of LA yesterday with our pets and are staying up the coast. The alternative seems to be breathing vast quantities of black smoke and waiting to be evacuated which is not anyone's idea of a good time.

I have been watching so yes. The big air drop helped a lot with the Hollywood one. What are you hearing from people in terms of what they think of the response?

Well the people I know have elderly parents whose houses have burned to the ground and are trying to rehouse them somewhere temporarily. No one in the middle of a crisis is discussing the "Response" that's only you DMV folks with your thumbs up your asses.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know if any of you have bothered to notice, but the North Hollywood fire is contained.

Palisades is still 0% contained which is very unfortunate.

We drove out of LA yesterday with our pets and are staying up the coast. The alternative seems to be breathing vast quantities of black smoke and waiting to be evacuated which is not anyone's idea of a good time.

I have been watching so yes. The big air drop helped a lot with the Hollywood one. What are you hearing from people in terms of what they think of the response?

Well the people I know have elderly parents whose houses have burned to the ground and are trying to rehouse them somewhere temporarily. No one in the middle of a crisis is discussing the "Response" that's only you DMV folks with your thumbs up your asses.

I've watched a lot of local LA coverage and there has been plenty of response discussion because it does impact people, now as well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, I feel for all of the people impacted by the fires. It's a terrible disaster. In times like these those who have had their homes destroyed deserve nothing but sympathy, offers of warm meals, and homes that are open to them and help cleaning up.

For those of you who had nothing but empathy for those in Western North Carolina but find yourselves finding fault with those near LA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. They've just been through a major tragedy.

NP. Difference is NC that flooding was unusual while LA fire is not. In CA, it’s fire season everyday due to overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, I feel for all of the people impacted by the fires. It's a terrible disaster. In times like these those who have had their homes destroyed deserve nothing but sympathy, offers of warm meals, and homes that are open to them and help cleaning up.

For those of you who had nothing but empathy for those in Western North Carolina but find yourselves finding fault with those near LA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. They've just been through a major tragedy.

NP. Difference is NC that flooding was unusual while LA fire is not. In CA, it’s fire season everyday due to overcrowding.

It was unusual though, both in terms of how dry it has been and the direction of the winds. This wasn't a normal event at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man, the air quality there would have me leave the entire LA area! I can't imagine how bad going outdoors would be there. It's not even about the actual fire going on but how the event impacts the entire area. I wonder how large the area is impacted by the air from the fires and what that spread may look like over what period of time??

The air quality readings are about equivalent to what the east coast had a couple of years ago with the Canadian fires. Unhealthy, but you can go inside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, I feel for all of the people impacted by the fires. It's a terrible disaster. In times like these those who have had their homes destroyed deserve nothing but sympathy, offers of warm meals, and homes that are open to them and help cleaning up.

For those of you who had nothing but empathy for those in Western North Carolina but find yourselves finding fault with those near LA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. They've just been through a major tragedy.

NP. Difference is NC that flooding was unusual while LA fire is not. In CA, it’s fire season everyday due to overcrowding.

It was unusual though, both in terms of how dry it has been and the direction of the winds. This wasn't a normal event at all.

And the areas that burned were not new or overcrowded either. Not to mention that parts of Asheville are in a flood zone, and Altadena had not had a fire before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, I feel for all of the people impacted by the fires. It's a terrible disaster. In times like these those who have had their homes destroyed deserve nothing but sympathy, offers of warm meals, and homes that are open to them and help cleaning up.

For those of you who had nothing but empathy for those in Western North Carolina but find yourselves finding fault with those near LA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. They've just been through a major tragedy.

I agree to the extent that the people who do this are the celebrities themselves who have huge amounts of cash money and assets to liquidate and should be taking care of themselves and of course should be taking care of those non celebrities and non millionaires who are effected by the fires. The celebrities should be the first to have stepped up and created a fund among themselves with donations only accepted from other celebrities to help those without the means affected by the fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like LA is finally getting its due.

Who would say this? I hope I don't know you IRL.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:First of all, I feel for all of the people impacted by the fires. It's a terrible disaster. In times like these those who have had their homes destroyed deserve nothing but sympathy, offers of warm meals, and homes that are open to them and help cleaning up.

For those of you who had nothing but empathy for those in Western North Carolina but find yourselves finding fault with those near LA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. They've just been through a major tragedy.

NP. Difference is NC that flooding was unusual while LA fire is not. In CA, it’s fire season everyday due to overcrowding.

Both phenomenon were fueled by climate change. Doesn't make any of the victims of these natural disasters less worthy of our empathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like LA is finally getting its due.

Shame on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, I feel for all of the people impacted by the fires. It's a terrible disaster. In times like these those who have had their homes destroyed deserve nothing but sympathy, offers of warm meals, and homes that are open to them and help cleaning up.

For those of you who had nothing but empathy for those in Western North Carolina but find yourselves finding fault with those near LA, you should be ashamed of yourselves. They've just been through a major tragedy.

I agree to the extent that the people who do this are the celebrities themselves who have huge amounts of cash money and assets to liquidate and should be taking care of themselves and of course should be taking care of those non celebrities and non millionaires who are effected by the fires. The celebrities should be the first to have stepped up and created a fund among themselves with donations only accepted from other celebrities to help those without the means affected by the fire.

Why exactly would their celebrity neighbors, who also, by the way, have lost their homes (in many cases their only residence), be more responsible for taking care of the victims of this disaster than FEMA, or the County or the City or the State or any of us with a few bucks to spare for disaster relief? That's what government and non-profits are for: pulling together an appropriate response in times of disaster. Along with some other stuff, of course.