Succession - Season 4

[Anonymous]

The actress said part of the testing was because she partly wished something could be wrong with the baby because it would give her a reason not to have it.

[Anonymous]

Kendall’s daughter is not adopted. Rava is Indian-American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As much as I like a lot about this show (the roast of Tom from this ep still has me cackling) I think the show is written by English white men who threw the word anmio in there just so we knew it was a pregnancy. And that’s it.

Nope. Listen to the podcast. It is explained that Shiv is pregnant and that the amnio was to show that she is considered further along than just finding out (second trimester).

They explained it when they said “you can get your sonogram at 20 weeks”. I’m someone who also thinks it’s just Hollywood being idiots about actual pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pretty rich and I don’t know anyone who got an amnio unless something came up on the earlier tests. Extra scans? Sure! But amnio has serious risks.

Wealth doesn't matter. If you're over 35 or have a problematic genetic history, amnio is recommended as a matter of course.

Is this based on personal experience? I had my first at 37 and the doctor was very much of the opinion that it was up to me. There are less invasive tests with less definitive results, most people do those first and will only do amnio if something comes up, because amnio carries a risk of miscarriage. It's as high as 1 in 100 amnios result in miscarriage -- that's extremely high! So I did not get one after earlier tests were clear (and with no history of genetic abnormalities and no flags raised on my early ultrasounds).

However, I do think wealth plays a role. There is a difference between "pretty rich" and Shiv Roy. We're talking about the richest people in the world. As I mentioned earlier, Shiv is not just going to a regular OB. She's going to doctors who only service the ultra rich, probably do a lot via house call, likely sign NDAs before working with them, etc. Shiv can afford to pay for the doctor whose done 3000 amnios and never had a bad result, so if she wants to get an amnio and be assured of the most limited risk possible, she can. She's not a Big Law attorney, she's a billionaire.

These people are not like us, any of us. And that extends to healthcare, pregnancy, risk assessment, etc. They make decisions differently than we do.

DP. Good grief, could you possibly stop fixating on the amnio? Plenty of women, including me, have had multiple amnios. It's a test that is regularly done, especially if the mother is 35+. Move on!

Thank you!!!! I get that this is a moms board (I’m clearly a mom too) but the mention of an amnio on a phone call, to establish that a character is pregnant basically - and has been for a while- is not a major plot point. It was a tool to convey that shiv is pregnant. Move on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Greg on the paper?

What pills were Roman taking off Logan’s desk towards the end in the meeting with Hugo and Karolina?

Why would Connor want his father’s apartment? This intrigues me that even though he was probably very neglected or loves by Logan he would want to buy Logan’s apartment.

Why is Willa’s mother still following Willa and Connor around?

Did Roman pop a few of those pills? I thought I saw that but I didn't rewind to make sure.

Yes. So whatever they were, it was something another person might want to take casually. He also “crunched” them rather than swallow whole, which I noticed because I’m on a lot of meds and they’re always terrible and I can’t imagine chewing one. That may or may not be a hint to the type of meds — it’s also possible the director had him chew to help make it more obvious that he was taking one.

Logan had that UTI last season and vitamin c is often recommended to prevent recurrent infection – and vitamin c is often chewable…

But I didn’t get a good look at the bottle to see if it was Rx or not.

it was a prescription bottle. Kerry also had a prescription bottle fall out of her bag when she spilled the bag of "stuff" Marcia gave her.

He was Taking stuff to make his sperm more potent right?? Maybe it was something like that

Or his beef stick hard.

Oh good point. And we know Roman has sex issues so that makes sense actually that he would see them and take one!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why was Roman so nice to Kerry? You'd think he didn't give a rats ass about her.

That's what I wondered too. He seemed genuinely sorry for the way Kerry was being treated.

He seemed interested in being able to reach her in the future. He asked for her personal number at least twice.

I found that interaction really weird.

They were setting us up for contrasting him with Kendall. He’s nice to Kerri. He doesn’t want to trash his dad in the press. Etc. It’s to create a foil for Kendall going evil.

[Anonymous]

I’d be surprised that they chose to mention the amino if it’s just to make Shiv pregnant for how much thought goes into the costumes and seemingly the show.

Watch article that I liked today - https://www.esquire.com/uk/watches/a43375207/succession-watches/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100% thought that the death was a huge hoax by Logan - that he was testing his kids to see how they would react to his death and what they would say to him in those last minutes. I fully expected him to walk into the boat and make some awful, disparaging remarks to them, after humiliating them. Glad that didn’t happen - that would have just been too cruel.

I was especially moved by both Kendall and Tom in this episode. Tom was so kind to Shiv.

The dialogue is getting weaker and weaker - so many f*cks peppering the conversation. It’s beyond old and strikes me as lazy.

I found Tom fascinating in this episode because I think he genuinely felt for Shiv in that moment, but I also think his kindness was at least 30% him realizing that with Logan dead, Shiv is his only real lifeline. Without her, he’s all the way out.

And I love how there were thematic parallels between that situation and Connor/Willa, with Connor straight up asking Willa if she was just in it fir the money and her getting very honest that the money is absolutely a big part of it for her.

I think the dialogue was very f**k heavy in this episode because everyone was in shock and didn’t know what to say, and people get kind of dumb in that situation. It’s realistic— people don’t give eloquent speeches in this situation. They can’t really process their feelings fast enough.

PP here and I agree with 99% of your post. But the f*ck issue is in every.single.episode. It's almost as if they're told to ad lib and they use constant profanity as a crutch while they think of what to say. Either that or the writers are incredibly lazy.

What if the writers aren’t lazy but the kids just aren’t that smart and they can’t think of what to say? Shiv, Roman, Tom, Greg are all pretty inarticulate and sub curse words for original thoughts. I think it’s very intentional that the writers use curse words instead of anything else.

There are some hilarious dirty insults. Incredibly witty and fast paced.

https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists/amp

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/26/health/swearing-benefits-wellness/index.html

I have run in some highly intellectual, extremely wealthy circles and it’s an art form.

Dolts on dcum get their panties in a twist and mistake it for being classless. It couldn’t be further from the reality.

And I loved VEEP with Selena and Dan and Amy’s profanity Abe hilarious cut downs.

Well, it can be both classless and common to the upper classes at the same time. Let's not confuse money with taste, sensitivity, or manners.

+1. One thing the show nails is how Kendall dresses obnoxiously casually all the time because he doesn't feel he has to dress up for anything. He wears sweatshirts to the office. He wore a baseball cap to his brother's rehearsal dinner, where he barely acknowledged it was a rehearsal dinner and stayed for 20 minutes. He did bother to wear a suit to the wedding itself, but no tie and didn't button his shirt all the way. Yes, I get some of these are "fashion" choices, but the point is that he feels he can simply make a personal style choice no matter the venue or occasion because he's very rich and doesn't feel he has to conform to social norms. And sure, his sweatshirts and baseball caps likely cost more than many people's wedding gowns, but that doesn't magically make them more formal or respectful to others.

People made a big deal about Shiv's ponytail at the wedding but lots of very wealthy women dress kind of terribly or have sloppy hair or clothes. Again, they might spend a lot on it, but that doesn't mean it looks that way or that they feel like they have to conform to anyone's expectations.

The swearing is the same. These are people who are used to not having to play by the rules. Sometimes they choose to be sophisticated, but they don't have to -- they can say f**k all they want, dress down, treat people poorly, etc., and unlike for the rest of us, there are no consequences. None of them is getting fired for swearing or not following a dress code. They won't lose friends over it either, because their friends are all there because of the money, too. I mean, Willa married Connor while openly admitting the money was a major reason why (and let's get real, any affection she has for him was developed after latching onto him for the money).

The poor language and bad clothes are of a piece with their overall awful behavior. The whole point of this show is that these people do not have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. People who don't understand that are like the people who rooted for Tony Soprano and Walter White. The point just whooshing right over their simple minds.

What a strange, strange post - especially your last sentences. But I get that you think you're far sharper and more clever than everyone else.
DP

What is strange about it? This is a well-known phenomenon -- people who root for the anti-heroes in shows that show them at their worst. Lots of people absolutely rooted for Tony and Walter to get away with their criminal behavior (including murder), and plenty of people root for the people on Succession to successfully get away with their own bad behavior (including stuff like Kendall getting away with killing that kid in the car crash) or chuckle at stuff like Roman's rocket exploding or all the malfeasance/abuse that occurred in Waystar's cruise business. Being able to watch these shows and not forget your ethical compass, and be able to empathize with these people without actually rooting for them to successfully kill, swindle, exploit, etc., is not a sign of being sharper or more clever, but it is a sign of having more self-awareness and not being so easily swayed by a work of fiction.

OMG.

+1. Succession is a soap opera. Nothing more, nothing less. Thinking that this show puts you or anybody else at risk of being sucked into some anti-hero's moral compass is not what this is about. Relax and enjoy the ride.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Greg on the paper?

What pills were Roman taking off Logan’s desk towards the end in the meeting with Hugo and Karolina?

Why would Connor want his father’s apartment? This intrigues me that even though he was probably very neglected or loves by Logan he would want to buy Logan’s apartment.

Why is Willa’s mother still following Willa and Connor around?

Did Roman pop a few of those pills? I thought I saw that but I didn't rewind to make sure.

Yes. So whatever they were, it was something another person might want to take casually. He also “crunched” them rather than swallow whole, which I noticed because I’m on a lot of meds and they’re always terrible and I can’t imagine chewing one. That may or may not be a hint to the type of meds — it’s also possible the director had him chew to help make it more obvious that he was taking one.

Logan had that UTI last season and vitamin c is often recommended to prevent recurrent infection – and vitamin c is often chewable…

But I didn’t get a good look at the bottle to see if it was Rx or not.

it was a prescription bottle. Kerry also had a prescription bottle fall out of her bag when she spilled the bag of "stuff" Marcia gave her.

He was Taking stuff to make his sperm more potent right?? Maybe it was something like that

Or his beef stick hard.

Oh good point. And we know Roman has sex issues so that makes sense actually that he would see them and take one!

This is a long shot but.... given the two incidents with prescription meds, I wondered if Kerry was trying to swap out whatever was in her bag for whatever was on Logan's desk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pretty rich and I don’t know anyone who got an amnio unless something came up on the earlier tests. Extra scans? Sure! But amnio has serious risks.

Wealth doesn't matter. If you're over 35 or have a problematic genetic history, amnio is recommended as a matter of course.

Is this based on personal experience? I had my first at 37 and the doctor was very much of the opinion that it was up to me. There are less invasive tests with less definitive results, most people do those first and will only do amnio if something comes up, because amnio carries a risk of miscarriage. It's as high as 1 in 100 amnios result in miscarriage -- that's extremely high! So I did not get one after earlier tests were clear (and with no history of genetic abnormalities and no flags raised on my early ultrasounds).

However, I do think wealth plays a role. There is a difference between "pretty rich" and Shiv Roy. We're talking about the richest people in the world. As I mentioned earlier, Shiv is not just going to a regular OB. She's going to doctors who only service the ultra rich, probably do a lot via house call, likely sign NDAs before working with them, etc. Shiv can afford to pay for the doctor whose done 3000 amnios and never had a bad result, so if she wants to get an amnio and be assured of the most limited risk possible, she can. She's not a Big Law attorney, she's a billionaire.

These people are not like us, any of us. And that extends to healthcare, pregnancy, risk assessment, etc. They make decisions differently than we do.

DP. Good grief, could you possibly stop fixating on the amnio? Plenty of women, including me, have had multiple amnios. It's a test that is regularly done, especially if the mother is 35+. Move on!

Thank you!!!! I get that this is a moms board (I’m clearly a mom too) but the mention of an amnio on a phone call, to establish that a character is pregnant basically - and has been for a while- is not a major plot point. It was a tool to convey that shiv is pregnant. Move on!

+1. It's not like they were going to show Shiv in the bathroom with a pregnancy stick. She's too far along for that. Plus the amnio highlights her ambiguity about this pregnancy. The amnio was a tool to convey all this, but wasn't a major plot point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have (re)watched episodes of this show scores of times and I thought Roman was the youngest!!

Me too. And I’m the youngest of three so I pay attention to family dynamics in shows with three siblings. Always though Shiv was the middle.

I thought I read somewhere Shiv and Roman are twins.

Irish twins maybe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I 100% thought that the death was a huge hoax by Logan - that he was testing his kids to see how they would react to his death and what they would say to him in those last minutes. I fully expected him to walk into the boat and make some awful, disparaging remarks to them, after humiliating them. Glad that didn’t happen - that would have just been too cruel.

I was especially moved by both Kendall and Tom in this episode. Tom was so kind to Shiv.

The dialogue is getting weaker and weaker - so many f*cks peppering the conversation. It’s beyond old and strikes me as lazy.

I found Tom fascinating in this episode because I think he genuinely felt for Shiv in that moment, but I also think his kindness was at least 30% him realizing that with Logan dead, Shiv is his only real lifeline. Without her, he’s all the way out.

And I love how there were thematic parallels between that situation and Connor/Willa, with Connor straight up asking Willa if she was just in it fir the money and her getting very honest that the money is absolutely a big part of it for her.

I think the dialogue was very f**k heavy in this episode because everyone was in shock and didn’t know what to say, and people get kind of dumb in that situation. It’s realistic— people don’t give eloquent speeches in this situation. They can’t really process their feelings fast enough.

PP here and I agree with 99% of your post. But the f*ck issue is in every.single.episode. It's almost as if they're told to ad lib and they use constant profanity as a crutch while they think of what to say. Either that or the writers are incredibly lazy.

What if the writers aren’t lazy but the kids just aren’t that smart and they can’t think of what to say? Shiv, Roman, Tom, Greg are all pretty inarticulate and sub curse words for original thoughts. I think it’s very intentional that the writers use curse words instead of anything else.

There are some hilarious dirty insults. Incredibly witty and fast paced.

https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists/amp

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/26/health/swearing-benefits-wellness/index.html

I have run in some highly intellectual, extremely wealthy circles and it’s an art form.

Dolts on dcum get their panties in a twist and mistake it for being classless. It couldn’t be further from the reality.

And I loved VEEP with Selena and Dan and Amy’s profanity Abe hilarious cut downs.

Well, it can be both classless and common to the upper classes at the same time. Let's not confuse money with taste, sensitivity, or manners.

+1. One thing the show nails is how Kendall dresses obnoxiously casually all the time because he doesn't feel he has to dress up for anything. He wears sweatshirts to the office. He wore a baseball cap to his brother's rehearsal dinner, where he barely acknowledged it was a rehearsal dinner and stayed for 20 minutes. He did bother to wear a suit to the wedding itself, but no tie and didn't button his shirt all the way. Yes, I get some of these are "fashion" choices, but the point is that he feels he can simply make a personal style choice no matter the venue or occasion because he's very rich and doesn't feel he has to conform to social norms. And sure, his sweatshirts and baseball caps likely cost more than many people's wedding gowns, but that doesn't magically make them more formal or respectful to others.

People made a big deal about Shiv's ponytail at the wedding but lots of very wealthy women dress kind of terribly or have sloppy hair or clothes. Again, they might spend a lot on it, but that doesn't mean it looks that way or that they feel like they have to conform to anyone's expectations.

The swearing is the same. These are people who are used to not having to play by the rules. Sometimes they choose to be sophisticated, but they don't have to -- they can say f**k all they want, dress down, treat people poorly, etc., and unlike for the rest of us, there are no consequences. None of them is getting fired for swearing or not following a dress code. They won't lose friends over it either, because their friends are all there because of the money, too. I mean, Willa married Connor while openly admitting the money was a major reason why (and let's get real, any affection she has for him was developed after latching onto him for the money).

The poor language and bad clothes are of a piece with their overall awful behavior. The whole point of this show is that these people do not have to play by the same rules as the rest of us. People who don't understand that are like the people who rooted for Tony Soprano and Walter White. The point just whooshing right over their simple minds.

What a strange, strange post - especially your last sentences. But I get that you think you're far sharper and more clever than everyone else.
DP

What is strange about it? This is a well-known phenomenon -- people who root for the anti-heroes in shows that show them at their worst. Lots of people absolutely rooted for Tony and Walter to get away with their criminal behavior (including murder), and plenty of people root for the people on Succession to successfully get away with their own bad behavior (including stuff like Kendall getting away with killing that kid in the car crash) or chuckle at stuff like Roman's rocket exploding or all the malfeasance/abuse that occurred in Waystar's cruise business. Being able to watch these shows and not forget your ethical compass, and be able to empathize with these people without actually rooting for them to successfully kill, swindle, exploit, etc., is not a sign of being sharper or more clever, but it is a sign of having more self-awareness and not being so easily swayed by a work of fiction.

OMG.

+1. Succession is a soap opera. Nothing more, nothing less. Thinking that this show puts you or anybody else at risk of being sucked into some anti-hero's moral compass is not what this is about. Relax and enjoy the ride.

Just because you just like passively watching this show like it's just a fun show about rich people with no deeper meaning or point, doesn't mean other people have to, as well. You're on a discussion board about the show. People are going to read into the show, explore themes and ideas, argue. If that seems dumb to you, that's fine. But it's not the definitive read on the show. Lot's of people think there's more to it:

https://philosophynow.org/issues/140/Succession
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/succession-sociologists-explain-fans-fascination-shows-repugnant-heroes-1246669/
https://www.vulture.com/2023/04/succession-is-more-than-an-eat-the-rich-fantasy.html

I personally think "relax and enjoy the ride" is the boring way to watch a show like this. That's what a show like CSI or Grey's Anatomy is for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pretty rich and I don’t know anyone who got an amnio unless something came up on the earlier tests. Extra scans? Sure! But amnio has serious risks.

I had an amnio with all of my kids. Because I wanted to know if there were any birth defects ahead of time. No surprises.

Yeah this was just to give a clue either about how far along she is or preview that there may be an issue with the baby (Chekhov’s gun). Aminos are available to anyone over 35 w insurance- unlike the jets this one thing isn’t a super rich only option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Greg on the paper?

What pills were Roman taking off Logan’s desk towards the end in the meeting with Hugo and Karolina?

Why would Connor want his father’s apartment? This intrigues me that even though he was probably very neglected or loves by Logan he would want to buy Logan’s apartment.

Why is Willa’s mother still following Willa and Connor around?

Did Roman pop a few of those pills? I thought I saw that but I didn't rewind to make sure.

Yes. So whatever they were, it was something another person might want to take casually. He also “crunched” them rather than swallow whole, which I noticed because I’m on a lot of meds and they’re always terrible and I can’t imagine chewing one. That may or may not be a hint to the type of meds — it’s also possible the director had him chew to help make it more obvious that he was taking one.

Logan had that UTI last season and vitamin c is often recommended to prevent recurrent infection – and vitamin c is often chewable…

But I didn’t get a good look at the bottle to see if it was Rx or not.

it was a prescription bottle. Kerry also had a prescription bottle fall out of her bag when she spilled the bag of "stuff" Marcia gave her.

He was Taking stuff to make his sperm more potent right?? Maybe it was something like that

Or his beef stick hard.

Oh good point. And we know Roman has sex issues so that makes sense actually that he would see them and take one!

This is a long shot but.... given the two incidents with prescription meds, I wondered if Kerry was trying to swap out whatever was in her bag for whatever was on Logan's desk.

I do think it was interesting that they made it clear that Kerri really really wanted to get upstairs. She said it multiple times and then was asking Roman to check things upstairs for her. I wonder if we will get follow up about that or if it was just showing her grieving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is Greg on the paper?

What pills were Roman taking off Logan’s desk towards the end in the meeting with Hugo and Karolina?

Why would Connor want his father’s apartment? This intrigues me that even though he was probably very neglected or loves by Logan he would want to buy Logan’s apartment.

Why is Willa’s mother still following Willa and Connor around?

Did Roman pop a few of those pills? I thought I saw that but I didn't rewind to make sure.

Yes. So whatever they were, it was something another person might want to take casually. He also “crunched” them rather than swallow whole, which I noticed because I’m on a lot of meds and they’re always terrible and I can’t imagine chewing one. That may or may not be a hint to the type of meds — it’s also possible the director had him chew to help make it more obvious that he was taking one.

Logan had that UTI last season and vitamin c is often recommended to prevent recurrent infection – and vitamin c is often chewable…

But I didn’t get a good look at the bottle to see if it was Rx or not.

it was a prescription bottle. Kerry also had a prescription bottle fall out of her bag when she spilled the bag of "stuff" Marcia gave her.

He was Taking stuff to make his sperm more potent right?? Maybe it was something like that

Or his beef stick hard.

Oh good point. And we know Roman has sex issues so that makes sense actually that he would see them and take one!

This is a long shot but.... given the two incidents with prescription meds, I wondered if Kerry was trying to swap out whatever was in her bag for whatever was on Logan's desk.

I do think it was interesting that they made it clear that Kerri really really wanted to get upstairs. She said it multiple times and then was asking Roman to check things upstairs for her. I wonder if we will get follow up about that or if it was just showing her grieving.

She's probably freaking out that she's unemployable and was on the verge of being extremely wealthy.