Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are sub-human cretins.

And, we have Americans marching in support of these terrorists......

No. The protests are for a ceasefire and for the US to stop funding Israel. The Protests are not in support of Hamas terrorists.

Will Israel save the hostages lives by agreeing to a ceasefire?

Bullcrap.
Some of these protestors are carrying Hamas flags and chanting the same rhetoric as the Hamas terrorists.
And, we have seen more than enough evidence of people actually praising these less-than-human individuals.

DP

My friends who attended the protest are centrist types and were definitely just asking for a ceasefire and more humanity towards the Palestinians.

There were no doubt a minority of more extreme protestors but it was mostly peaceful and most protestors just want to see a ceasefire and humanitarian support for the many Palestinians civilians suffering from terrible injuries/ loss of homes/ loss of family members and starvation. Especially the many children who are suffering so much.

Everyone I know condemns Hamas actions on October 7.

But Israel’s disproportionate response is not only inhumane but making Israel less safe in a hostile region.

Very fine people at the protest, right?

You know the left has lost their minds when they’re parroting Trump’s rhetoric on Charlottesville.

What? I never said they were very fine people - I said they are sensible centrist types and not extremists. They simply Want the indiscriminate response by IDF to stop and for more humanitarian support for the innocent Palestinians. They also condemn Hamas’ actions but don’t think Israel’s scale of response is justified.

It is in no one’s interests to continue down this extreme path. Many Jewish friends in DMV are also horrified by the scale of devastation visited upon Palestinians / all while not approving of Hamas and wanting Israel to survive.

It is bizarre to refer to anyone who disagrees with IDF’s military tactics as anti semitic.

Looking at the photos of the destruction Israel has inflicted on Gaza is pretty drastic. Anyone who thinks this level of vengeance is moral and sane is fringe.

What specifically surprised them? How else modern warfare would look in an urban area? Look at Fallujah, Aleppo, Grozniy, Ukraine, etc. Modern warfare is designed to obliterate. What evidence have you all had that this will somehow look different?

The daily war death toll in Palestine averages 250 people a day, which is the highest in any major conflict in the 21st century. A disproportionate number of war dead are civilians, particularly children. This figure (250 a day) does not count deaths from the indirect effects of the war, such as starvation, disease, and cold. The number of dead under the rubble is unknown. For every death, several civilians are blinded, paralyzed, disfigured, and/or lose limbs. Almost every building in Gaza has been damaged or destroyed. Everyone in Gaza will be profoundly affected psychologically for the rest of their lives. It is extremely likely that Israeli hostages are dying along with the rest of the population, either through shelling or limited access to medical care and inadequate diet.

The goal appears to be to make Gaza completely unlivable, so Gazans either die or leave as refugees and Israeli settlers can move in and take over. Saving the hostages doesn't seem to be a priority. Israel could have negotiated their release ages ago. The whole thing is chilling. I don't like the term "evil," but what else does one call this?

Yes. I hope this puts to bed the “this is just war” mantra.

I have written it before and will repeat myself.

Israel’s outsize response is fostering the next generation of hate. As a Jew, IDF actions make me feel less - not more - safe. As a human, I am horrified about the level of killing and destruction imposed by a country that knows what suffering is.

Most of my Jewish friends here in DMV feel the same way as you.

It is so wrong that anyone who supports a ceasefire and more humanitarian support for innocent civilians is dismissed as anti semitic. Real friends of Israel want her to behave in ways that are more humane and proportional and to foster long term survival for both sides. Obviously if the conflict becomes a fully Fledged regional war, most of the region supports Palestine .

That's simply not what is happening.

I completely understand and admire the motivations of those who support a ceasefire and more humanitarian aid.

However, MANY opposing Israel's actions have completely different motives and positions:

1. They argue that Israel should never have been created and/or should not exist.

2. They argue that Palestinians and the Arab were justified in attempting to annihilate Israel in 1947, and that Hamas's attacks were "understandable" or "Israel's fault", etc.

3. They argue that US support by Israel is the result of Zionist $$$ influencing US officials, media, etc., etc.

4. They deny that many Palestinians support Hamas, notwithstanding the polling.

5. They make false and/or unverifiable claims about the situation in Gaza (the hospital attack, for example).

6. They post conspiracy theories about what happened on 10/7.

We've seen hundreds (thousands?) of examples of the above on this board, at the protests, in student and far left responses to 10/7.

At this point, anyone supporting the Palestinian "side" has the burden of proving they're acting in good faith, simply b/c so many of their compatriots are clearly not.

Like many who have posted here, I suspect (based on my experience reading hundreds and hundreds of posts), I don’t have to support the Palestinian “side” to oppose the Israeli “side” and what’s been happening in the Middle East over the past 75 years.

There’s no burden on me. Actual facts are facts, and below are several …

This conflict didn’t begin on 10/7/2023.

Arab groups (including several states) have initiated conflict with Israel over the past 75 years, including on 10/7.

Over those 75 years, Israel has violated international laws in attacking Syria, Iraq, Iran, etc. during that timeframe, going so far as to attack U.S. naval assets and kill U.S. sailors in the process.

The Palestinian “side” has sustained casualties in this decades-long conflict that dwarf the casualties sustained by the Israeli “side”.

This decades-long conflict has directly benefitted the Zionist movement, as evidenced by the expanded footprint of the State of Israel in 2024.

Pro-Israeli lobbying in the U.S. actively seeks to influence U.S. foreign policy (and public opinion) in favor of Israel.

Those are all facts. And here are two opinions: The Palestinian leadership is horrendous. So is the Israeli leadership.

Painting everyone critical of the actions of Israel as a supporter of the other “side” is incorrect, and really, just a foolhardy attempt to disqualify their arguments that you don’t like.

What you listed is not "facts".

But they are - the items identified as facts are irrefutable facts.

Which one(s) do you want to challenge as factual?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are sub-human cretins.

And, we have Americans marching in support of these terrorists......

No. The protests are for a ceasefire and for the US to stop funding Israel. The Protests are not in support of Hamas terrorists.

Will Israel save the hostages lives by agreeing to a ceasefire?

Bullcrap.
Some of these protestors are carrying Hamas flags and chanting the same rhetoric as the Hamas terrorists.
And, we have seen more than enough evidence of people actually praising these less-than-human individuals.

DP

My friends who attended the protest are centrist types and were definitely just asking for a ceasefire and more humanity towards the Palestinians.

There were no doubt a minority of more extreme protestors but it was mostly peaceful and most protestors just want to see a ceasefire and humanitarian support for the many Palestinians civilians suffering from terrible injuries/ loss of homes/ loss of family members and starvation. Especially the many children who are suffering so much.

Everyone I know condemns Hamas actions on October 7.

But Israel’s disproportionate response is not only inhumane but making Israel less safe in a hostile region.

Very fine people at the protest, right?

You know the left has lost their minds when they’re parroting Trump’s rhetoric on Charlottesville.

What? I never said they were very fine people - I said they are sensible centrist types and not extremists. They simply Want the indiscriminate response by IDF to stop and for more humanitarian support for the innocent Palestinians. They also condemn Hamas’ actions but don’t think Israel’s scale of response is justified.

It is in no one’s interests to continue down this extreme path. Many Jewish friends in DMV are also horrified by the scale of devastation visited upon Palestinians / all while not approving of Hamas and wanting Israel to survive.

It is bizarre to refer to anyone who disagrees with IDF’s military tactics as anti semitic.

Looking at the photos of the destruction Israel has inflicted on Gaza is pretty drastic. Anyone who thinks this level of vengeance is moral and sane is fringe.

What specifically surprised them? How else modern warfare would look in an urban area? Look at Fallujah, Aleppo, Grozniy, Ukraine, etc. Modern warfare is designed to obliterate. What evidence have you all had that this will somehow look different?

The daily war death toll in Palestine averages 250 people a day, which is the highest in any major conflict in the 21st century. A disproportionate number of war dead are civilians, particularly children. This figure (250 a day) does not count deaths from the indirect effects of the war, such as starvation, disease, and cold. The number of dead under the rubble is unknown. For every death, several civilians are blinded, paralyzed, disfigured, and/or lose limbs. Almost every building in Gaza has been damaged or destroyed. Everyone in Gaza will be profoundly affected psychologically for the rest of their lives. It is extremely likely that Israeli hostages are dying along with the rest of the population, either through shelling or limited access to medical care and inadequate diet.

The goal appears to be to make Gaza completely unlivable, so Gazans either die or leave as refugees and Israeli settlers can move in and take over. Saving the hostages doesn't seem to be a priority. Israel could have negotiated their release ages ago. The whole thing is chilling. I don't like the term "evil," but what else does one call this?

That’s because every death is a Gazan civilian to you. They don’t wear uniforms and there are 20-30,000 Hamas operatives in Gaza. Israel estimates that 8,000 Hamas terrorists were killed. Again, it took Israel months to count 1200 dead but Hamas run healthcare which is supposed to be in total shambles, is somehow able to give real life updates on the numbers killed. If Israel’s estimates are correct and Hamas estimates are also correct the daily killed are 157 per day. No one is ever going to know the true number. We still don’t know how many were killed in Fallujah . Coalition forces estimate 10k while Iraqi sources estimate 40,000.

If we take both sides at their words, Israel has killed 14,000 civilians.

That’s worth it to you?

There's no "both sides" numbers. The only totals being cited are the questionable Hamas numbers. From the same Hamas Health Ministry folks who grossly exaggerated the Al Shifa death toll and others.

Like forty beheaded babies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are sub-human cretins.

And, we have Americans marching in support of these terrorists......

No. The protests are for a ceasefire and for the US to stop funding Israel. The Protests are not in support of Hamas terrorists.

Will Israel save the hostages lives by agreeing to a ceasefire?

Bullcrap.
Some of these protestors are carrying Hamas flags and chanting the same rhetoric as the Hamas terrorists.
And, we have seen more than enough evidence of people actually praising these less-than-human individuals.

DP

My friends who attended the protest are centrist types and were definitely just asking for a ceasefire and more humanity towards the Palestinians.

There were no doubt a minority of more extreme protestors but it was mostly peaceful and most protestors just want to see a ceasefire and humanitarian support for the many Palestinians civilians suffering from terrible injuries/ loss of homes/ loss of family members and starvation. Especially the many children who are suffering so much.

Everyone I know condemns Hamas actions on October 7.

But Israel’s disproportionate response is not only inhumane but making Israel less safe in a hostile region.

Very fine people at the protest, right?

You know the left has lost their minds when they’re parroting Trump’s rhetoric on Charlottesville.

What? I never said they were very fine people - I said they are sensible centrist types and not extremists. They simply Want the indiscriminate response by IDF to stop and for more humanitarian support for the innocent Palestinians. They also condemn Hamas’ actions but don’t think Israel’s scale of response is justified.

It is in no one’s interests to continue down this extreme path. Many Jewish friends in DMV are also horrified by the scale of devastation visited upon Palestinians / all while not approving of Hamas and wanting Israel to survive.

It is bizarre to refer to anyone who disagrees with IDF’s military tactics as anti semitic.

Looking at the photos of the destruction Israel has inflicted on Gaza is pretty drastic. Anyone who thinks this level of vengeance is moral and sane is fringe.

What specifically surprised them? How else modern warfare would look in an urban area? Look at Fallujah, Aleppo, Grozniy, Ukraine, etc. Modern warfare is designed to obliterate. What evidence have you all had that this will somehow look different?

The daily war death toll in Palestine averages 250 people a day, which is the highest in any major conflict in the 21st century. A disproportionate number of war dead are civilians, particularly children. This figure (250 a day) does not count deaths from the indirect effects of the war, such as starvation, disease, and cold. The number of dead under the rubble is unknown. For every death, several civilians are blinded, paralyzed, disfigured, and/or lose limbs. Almost every building in Gaza has been damaged or destroyed. Everyone in Gaza will be profoundly affected psychologically for the rest of their lives. It is extremely likely that Israeli hostages are dying along with the rest of the population, either through shelling or limited access to medical care and inadequate diet.

The goal appears to be to make Gaza completely unlivable, so Gazans either die or leave as refugees and Israeli settlers can move in and take over. Saving the hostages doesn't seem to be a priority. Israel could have negotiated their release ages ago. The whole thing is chilling. I don't like the term "evil," but what else does one call this?

Yes. I hope this puts to bed the “this is just war” mantra.

I have written it before and will repeat myself.

Israel’s outsize response is fostering the next generation of hate. As a Jew, IDF actions make me feel less - not more - safe. As a human, I am horrified about the level of killing and destruction imposed by a country that knows what suffering is.

Most of my Jewish friends here in DMV feel the same way as you.

It is so wrong that anyone who supports a ceasefire and more humanitarian support for innocent civilians is dismissed as anti semitic. Real friends of Israel want her to behave in ways that are more humane and proportional and to foster long term survival for both sides. Obviously if the conflict becomes a fully Fledged regional war, most of the region supports Palestine .

That's simply not what is happening.

I completely understand and admire the motivations of those who support a ceasefire and more humanitarian aid.

However, MANY opposing Israel's actions have completely different motives and positions:

1. They argue that Israel should never have been created and/or should not exist.

2. They argue that Palestinians and the Arab were justified in attempting to annihilate Israel in 1947, and that Hamas's attacks were "understandable" or "Israel's fault", etc.

3. They argue that US support by Israel is the result of Zionist $$$ influencing US officials, media, etc., etc.

4. They deny that many Palestinians support Hamas, notwithstanding the polling.

5. They make false and/or unverifiable claims about the situation in Gaza (the hospital attack, for example).

6. They post conspiracy theories about what happened on 10/7.

We've seen hundreds (thousands?) of examples of the above on this board, at the protests, in student and far left responses to 10/7.

At this point, anyone supporting the Palestinian "side" has the burden of proving they're acting in good faith, simply b/c so many of their compatriots are clearly not.

Anyone who supports a ceasefire and more humanitarian aid is making the most ethical request possible, whatever they believe regarding points 1 through 6. The situation in Gaza is untenable, indefensible, and unconscionable, and nobody with a beating heart could possibly support its continuance. We can't just sit on our hands while children are butchered and people are sick and starving, and the humanitarian situation just gets worse and worse. Nobody who feels this way needs to prove to you that "they're acting in good faith." If you oppose a ceasefire and more humanitarian aid, you'd have to be some kind of sociopath. You'd be "acting in bad faith."

I am in favor of more humanitarian aid and a de-escalation of the military campaign.

But I also think that motives matter a great deal.

Even if I opposed school busing, I wouldn't protest with the KKK.

That's effectively what the well-intentioned protesters are doing.

It's both morally grotesque and actually undermines their cause. Fundamentally counterproductive.

The PP seemed to think that believing Israel should never have been created is morally equivalent to accepting the Hamas attack of 10/. I'm not alone in believing the first point (bad idea to create Israel) and being horrified by the second (Hamas attack excusable). Motives certainly matter, but not everyone is going to agree that all six of the PP's points must be held as articles of faith if their views about a ceasefire and humanitarian aid are to be taken seriously. One can't undercut the purity of their desire to help Gazan civilians, especially children, by conflating their humanity with terrorism. It's disappointing that this link is so often made and used to give Israel carte blanche to commit a massive massacre.

The position that Israel should not exist cannot be separated from support for 80 years of efforts to annihilate it.

It’s like supporting “separate but equal” but claiming not to be a racist.

The metaphor of "separate but equal" just falls apart here on so many levels. In the current situation, we have people who say they support "separate but equal" while claiming not to be racist. They claim Palestinians can live separately but equally in the West Bank, and they're so equal that Israeli settlers can harass them with impunity, vandalize their homes, murder them, steal their property, and squat on their land in violation of international law. They're so equal that they can be abducted and detained indefinitely without trial. They have limited access to justice in Israeli courts. Arab Israelis face structural discrimination. One of the forms of anti-Palestinian discrimination is that it is extremely difficult for Palestinians from the WB and Gaza to get residency in Israel if they marry Israeli citizens. This law is intended to minimize the Arab/Palestinian population of Israel so that it can remain an ethno-supremacist state.

Ending Israel's existence in its current incarnation and replacing it with one state in which Palestinians are truly "equal but not separate" would just be a natural evolutionary progression toward a more just, less racist world. South Africa was not "annihilated" when it ceased to be a white supremacist, apartheid nation. Northern Ireland was not "annihilated" when an agreement was reached that was democratic and not rigidly pro-UK. Men were not "annihilated" when women gained equal rights.

Completely missed the point WRT the prior post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have zero issue with Israel methodically searching through the population of Gaza for Hamas. If no one loses their lives, and they identify terrorist, what could be the argument? Carry on!

That’s the problem - >23 K dead, many more severely injured and hundreds of thousands facing starvation. Mostly women and children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are sub-human cretins.

And, we have Americans marching in support of these terrorists......

No. The protests are for a ceasefire and for the US to stop funding Israel. The Protests are not in support of Hamas terrorists.

Will Israel save the hostages lives by agreeing to a ceasefire?

Bullcrap.
Some of these protestors are carrying Hamas flags and chanting the same rhetoric as the Hamas terrorists.
And, we have seen more than enough evidence of people actually praising these less-than-human individuals.

DP

My friends who attended the protest are centrist types and were definitely just asking for a ceasefire and more humanity towards the Palestinians.

There were no doubt a minority of more extreme protestors but it was mostly peaceful and most protestors just want to see a ceasefire and humanitarian support for the many Palestinians civilians suffering from terrible injuries/ loss of homes/ loss of family members and starvation. Especially the many children who are suffering so much.

Everyone I know condemns Hamas actions on October 7.

But Israel’s disproportionate response is not only inhumane but making Israel less safe in a hostile region.

Very fine people at the protest, right?

You know the left has lost their minds when they’re parroting Trump’s rhetoric on Charlottesville.

What? I never said they were very fine people - I said they are sensible centrist types and not extremists. They simply Want the indiscriminate response by IDF to stop and for more humanitarian support for the innocent Palestinians. They also condemn Hamas’ actions but don’t think Israel’s scale of response is justified.

It is in no one’s interests to continue down this extreme path. Many Jewish friends in DMV are also horrified by the scale of devastation visited upon Palestinians / all while not approving of Hamas and wanting Israel to survive.

It is bizarre to refer to anyone who disagrees with IDF’s military tactics as anti semitic.

Looking at the photos of the destruction Israel has inflicted on Gaza is pretty drastic. Anyone who thinks this level of vengeance is moral and sane is fringe.

What specifically surprised them? How else modern warfare would look in an urban area? Look at Fallujah, Aleppo, Grozniy, Ukraine, etc. Modern warfare is designed to obliterate. What evidence have you all had that this will somehow look different?

The daily war death toll in Palestine averages 250 people a day, which is the highest in any major conflict in the 21st century. A disproportionate number of war dead are civilians, particularly children. This figure (250 a day) does not count deaths from the indirect effects of the war, such as starvation, disease, and cold. The number of dead under the rubble is unknown. For every death, several civilians are blinded, paralyzed, disfigured, and/or lose limbs. Almost every building in Gaza has been damaged or destroyed. Everyone in Gaza will be profoundly affected psychologically for the rest of their lives. It is extremely likely that Israeli hostages are dying along with the rest of the population, either through shelling or limited access to medical care and inadequate diet.

The goal appears to be to make Gaza completely unlivable, so Gazans either die or leave as refugees and Israeli settlers can move in and take over. Saving the hostages doesn't seem to be a priority. Israel could have negotiated their release ages ago. The whole thing is chilling. I don't like the term "evil," but what else does one call this?

That’s because every death is a Gazan civilian to you. They don’t wear uniforms and there are 20-30,000 Hamas operatives in Gaza. Israel estimates that 8,000 Hamas terrorists were killed. Again, it took Israel months to count 1200 dead but Hamas run healthcare which is supposed to be in total shambles, is somehow able to give real life updates on the numbers killed. If Israel’s estimates are correct and Hamas estimates are also correct the daily killed are 157 per day. No one is ever going to know the true number. We still don’t know how many were killed in Fallujah . Coalition forces estimate 10k while Iraqi sources estimate 40,000.

If we take both sides at their words, Israel has killed 14,000 civilians.

That’s worth it to you?

There's no "both sides" numbers. The only totals being cited are the questionable Hamas numbers. From the same Hamas Health Ministry folks who grossly exaggerated the Al Shifa death toll and others.

Israel has interestingly enough never disputed the Hamas Health Ministry numbers. Those numbers are considered by almost everyone, even the US, to be UNDERestimates.

Weird that anyone would think that. Earlier it was argued that they are "pretty accurate" based on an academic paper from the 2014 conflict - and NOT an underestimate. And meanwhile we KNOW Hamas health ministry overinflated the numbers, by as much as fourfold as they did at Al Shifa. We also know that credible sources have said 7,000-8,000 of the dead are Hamas fighters, which gives a much smaller percentage of civilian killings than Hamas's attack on Israel - a much larger percentage of the people they killled were civilians and not military or police.

[Anonymous]

Upthread, someone said "Iran isn't the problem" and again tried making everything the fault of the US and Israel.

Tell me the pretzel logic by which Iran bombing Pakistan is somehow the fault of the US and Israel?

https://www.foxnews.com/world/pakistan-warns-consequences-irans-bombing-killed-two-children

[Anonymous]

It looks like the quiet part that US outlets haven't been reporting on (despite what cabinet ministers were openly saying) is finally being said


https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have zero issue with Israel methodically searching through the population of Gaza for Hamas. If no one loses their lives, and they identify terrorist, what could be the argument? Carry on!

That’s the problem - >23 K dead, many more severely injured and hundreds of thousands facing starvation. Mostly women and children.

Please tell us, oh great military mind, how do you methodically search for Hamas fighters who don’t wear a uniform?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the quiet part that US outlets haven't been reporting on (despite what cabinet ministers were openly saying) is finally being said


https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

What is the news there? The far right has been saying this since 2004. The wider Israeli public disagrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the quiet part that US outlets haven't been reporting on (despite what cabinet ministers were openly saying) is finally being said


https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

What is the news there? The far right has been saying this since 2004. The wider Israeli public disagrees.

The far right is the government. The wider public elected them. The urban moderates disagree, but there aren't enough of them to matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the quiet part that US outlets haven't been reporting on (despite what cabinet ministers were openly saying) is finally being said


https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

What is the news there? The far right has been saying this since 2004. The wider Israeli public disagrees.

The far right is the government. The wider public elected them. The urban moderates disagree, but there aren't enough of them to matter

Yes this is nothing new. These comments by the members of government are back up by their actions. This is how you move up in to leadership of the government. The American media view is very different from reality. Go read the South African report. Notice how the media is ignoring it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the quiet part that US outlets haven't been reporting on (despite what cabinet ministers were openly saying) is finally being said


https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

What is the news there? The far right has been saying this since 2004. The wider Israeli public disagrees.

The far right is the government. The wider public elected them. The urban moderates disagree, but there aren't enough of them to matter

The far right is the small part of the government. The only reason they came to prominence in 2023 if because Bibi could not build a coalition otherwise. Once he is gone so will their prominence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like the quiet part that US outlets haven't been reporting on (despite what cabinet ministers were openly saying) is finally being said


https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/17/middleeast/israel-far-right-gaza-settler-movement-cmd-intl/index.html

What is the news there? The far right has been saying this since 2004. The wider Israeli public disagrees.

The far right is the government. The wider public elected them. The urban moderates disagree, but there aren't enough of them to matter

The far right is the small part of the government. The only reason they came to prominence in 2023 if because Bibi could not build a coalition otherwise. Once he is gone so will their prominence.

If you don't consider Likud far right, than the definition of far right has really shifted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are sub-human cretins.

And, we have Americans marching in support of these terrorists......

No. The protests are for a ceasefire and for the US to stop funding Israel. The Protests are not in support of Hamas terrorists.

Will Israel save the hostages lives by agreeing to a ceasefire?

Bullcrap.
Some of these protestors are carrying Hamas flags and chanting the same rhetoric as the Hamas terrorists.
And, we have seen more than enough evidence of people actually praising these less-than-human individuals.

DP

My friends who attended the protest are centrist types and were definitely just asking for a ceasefire and more humanity towards the Palestinians.

There were no doubt a minority of more extreme protestors but it was mostly peaceful and most protestors just want to see a ceasefire and humanitarian support for the many Palestinians civilians suffering from terrible injuries/ loss of homes/ loss of family members and starvation. Especially the many children who are suffering so much.

Everyone I know condemns Hamas actions on October 7.

But Israel’s disproportionate response is not only inhumane but making Israel less safe in a hostile region.

Very fine people at the protest, right?

You know the left has lost their minds when they’re parroting Trump’s rhetoric on Charlottesville.

What? I never said they were very fine people - I said they are sensible centrist types and not extremists. They simply Want the indiscriminate response by IDF to stop and for more humanitarian support for the innocent Palestinians. They also condemn Hamas’ actions but don’t think Israel’s scale of response is justified.

It is in no one’s interests to continue down this extreme path. Many Jewish friends in DMV are also horrified by the scale of devastation visited upon Palestinians / all while not approving of Hamas and wanting Israel to survive.

It is bizarre to refer to anyone who disagrees with IDF’s military tactics as anti semitic.

Looking at the photos of the destruction Israel has inflicted on Gaza is pretty drastic. Anyone who thinks this level of vengeance is moral and sane is fringe.

What specifically surprised them? How else modern warfare would look in an urban area? Look at Fallujah, Aleppo, Grozniy, Ukraine, etc. Modern warfare is designed to obliterate. What evidence have you all had that this will somehow look different?

The daily war death toll in Palestine averages 250 people a day, which is the highest in any major conflict in the 21st century. A disproportionate number of war dead are civilians, particularly children. This figure (250 a day) does not count deaths from the indirect effects of the war, such as starvation, disease, and cold. The number of dead under the rubble is unknown. For every death, several civilians are blinded, paralyzed, disfigured, and/or lose limbs. Almost every building in Gaza has been damaged or destroyed. Everyone in Gaza will be profoundly affected psychologically for the rest of their lives. It is extremely likely that Israeli hostages are dying along with the rest of the population, either through shelling or limited access to medical care and inadequate diet.

The goal appears to be to make Gaza completely unlivable, so Gazans either die or leave as refugees and Israeli settlers can move in and take over. Saving the hostages doesn't seem to be a priority. Israel could have negotiated their release ages ago. The whole thing is chilling. I don't like the term "evil," but what else does one call this?

That’s because every death is a Gazan civilian to you. They don’t wear uniforms and there are 20-30,000 Hamas operatives in Gaza. Israel estimates that 8,000 Hamas terrorists were killed. Again, it took Israel months to count 1200 dead but Hamas run healthcare which is supposed to be in total shambles, is somehow able to give real life updates on the numbers killed. If Israel’s estimates are correct and Hamas estimates are also correct the daily killed are 157 per day. No one is ever going to know the true number. We still don’t know how many were killed in Fallujah . Coalition forces estimate 10k while Iraqi sources estimate 40,000.

If we take both sides at their words, Israel has killed 14,000 civilians.

That’s worth it to you?

There's no "both sides" numbers. The only totals being cited are the questionable Hamas numbers. From the same Hamas Health Ministry folks who grossly exaggerated the Al Shifa death toll and others.

Israel has interestingly enough never disputed the Hamas Health Ministry numbers. Those numbers are considered by almost everyone, even the US, to be UNDERestimates.

Weird that anyone would think that. Earlier it was argued that they are "pretty accurate" based on an academic paper from the 2014 conflict - and NOT an underestimate. And meanwhile we KNOW Hamas health ministry overinflated the numbers, by as much as fourfold as they did at Al Shifa. We also know that credible sources have said 7,000-8,000 of the dead are Hamas fighters, which gives a much smaller percentage of civilian killings than Hamas's attack on Israel - a much larger percentage of the people they killled were civilians and not military or police.

Actually, the number of police, security, and IDF killed by the Palestinian “side” as a proportion of overall Israelis killed is higher than the number of Hamas killed by the Israeli “side” as a proportion of overall Palestinians killed. And that’s based on numbers provided or recognized by the IDF and Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have zero issue with Israel methodically searching through the population of Gaza for Hamas. If no one loses their lives, and they identify terrorist, what could be the argument? Carry on!

That’s the problem - >23 K dead, many more severely injured and hundreds of thousands facing starvation. Mostly women and children.

Please tell us, oh great military mind, how do you methodically search for Hamas fighters who don’t wear a uniform?

I would not indiscriminately bomb women and children.