Ukrainian victory over Russia is inevitable

[Anonymous]

Russian nukes:

Their latest missile technologies have been failures

Their older missile technologies are defunct and will likely have a high failure rate

Their navy is falling apart

Their strategic bombers will likely not get far outside of Russian borders

But sure, do go on believing....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

You know perfectly well what happened after 9/11 wasn't about protecting the United States. Bush wanted to invade something, and NATO made it happen and look kosher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces[b] in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

You know perfectly well what happened after 9/11 wasn't about protecting the United States. Bush wanted to invade something, and NATO made it happen and look kosher.

DP

No we don’t know that and you mischaracterized NATO’s involvement.


[b]Has NATO ever started a war? - History Stack Exchange

NATO's operations were focussed on anti-terror and enforce blockades or no-fly zones on specific nations and providing humanitarian assistance. The operations were responses to actions by other nations but not started by NATO itself therefore NATO hasn't started any wars.Mar 1, 2022
https://history.stackexchange.com › ...


What was the role of NATO in the Iraq war?

The March 2003 campaign against Iraq was conducted by a coalition of forces from different countries, some of which were NATO member countries and some were not. NATO as an organization had no role in the decision to undertake the campaign or to conduct it.May 19, 2022

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_51977.htm#:~:text=The%20March%202003%20campaign%20against,campaign%20or%20to%20conduct%20it.


From 2004 to 2011, NATO conducted a relatively small but important support operation in Iraq that consisted of training, mentoring and assisting the Iraqi security forces.May 24, 2023
https://www.nato.int › topics_166936
Topic: NATO Mission Iraq


NATO and Afghanistan

For nearly 20 years, NATO Allies and partner countries had military forces deployed to Afghanistan under a United Nations (UN) Security Council mandate. NATO Allies went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States, to ensure that the country would not again become a safe haven for international terrorists to attack NATO member countries. Over the last two decades, there have been no terrorist attacks on Allied soil from Afghanistan.

In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban signed an agreement on the withdrawal of international forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In April 2021, NATO Foreign and Defence ministers decided to withdraw all Allied troops from Afghanistan within a few months.

In summer 2021, following the collapse of the Afghan government and the Afghan National Defence and Security Forces, NATO focused on ensuring the safe departure of personnel from Allied and partner countries, and NATO-affiliated Afghans. In August 2021, more than 120,000 people were evacuated in the Allied airlift from Kabul airport as part of the coalition effort – including around 2,000 Afghans working for NATO, and their families. Many of them have already been resettled in Allied and partner countries. For several others, NATO is working with Allies to provide housing, care and support while arrangements are made for follow-on movement to Allied and partner countries. 


https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

Ah yes Kosovo, where we supported a break-away province where people had gotten stuck on the wrong side of a post-Cold War border and wanted to be free from an oppressive government.

Which is completely different from Ukraine, because uhmm, Russia is bad I guess. Ukrainians get to rule over and mistreat Russians because Russians are metaphysically bad people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

Ah yes Kosovo, where we supported a break-away province where people had gotten stuck on the wrong side of a post-Cold War border and wanted to be free from an oppressive government.

Which is completely different from Ukraine, because uhmm, Russia is bad I guess. Ukrainians get to rule over and mistreat Russians because Russians are metaphysically bad people.

Well. Yes. I agree. Russians that follow and don't stand up to the Russian Government are metaphysically bad people.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/russians-committing-rape-widespread-torture-ukrainians-report-finds/story?id=103465772
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/30/1093339262/ukraine-russia-rape-war-crimes
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-survivors-of-russian-war-crimes-in-ukraine-testify-in-house-hearing
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/15/europe/russia-ukraine-rape-sexual-violence-military-intl-hnk/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61071243

Russia seems to have a new solution to restocking the pipeline of fresh troops.

https://www.refworld.org/docid/498805d4c.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/23/how-putin-is-preparing-children-to-die-for-the-motherland
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/children-as-a-tool-how-russia-militarizes-kids-in-the-donbas-and-crimea/

Now Russian troops returning home can rape women to give birth to the next generation of child-soldiers.

"Russia restricts abortion drug sales until 2030. Abortion drugs misoprostol and mifepristone are now limited by subject-quantitative registration."
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-restricts-abortion-drug-sales-2030

It's no surprise that bootleg Barbie is so popular in the 'not so Barbie World'.

"theaters went all-in with Barbie banners, pink popcorn, even a life-size Barbie doll box for selfies"
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/04/1203547963/the-cinematic-pink-wave-sweeping-the-world-hits-russia-barbie-lands-in-moscow

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know if Ukraine is going to get back all of Donbas and Crimea. Think Crimea is easier. But what I do know is that Ukrainians stood on the fault line with Russia. And with Western support, they fought hard, preserved their country, and allowed the rest of Europe to enjoy their democracies and their freedoms. We owe Ukrainians a lot.

Russia is building a naval base in Georgia. That's about as far as you can get from Ukraine on the Black Sea. Crimea is no longer a useful military asset for Russia. They went into this war with full control, and now the best case for Russia is that Crimea just turns into a "no man's zone".

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-plans-naval-base-black-sea-coast-breakaway-georgian-region-izvestiya-2023-10-05/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

Ah yes Kosovo, where we supported a break-away province where people had gotten stuck on the wrong side of a post-Cold War border and wanted to be free from an oppressive government.

Which is completely different from Ukraine, because uhmm, Russia is bad I guess. Ukrainians get to rule over and mistreat Russians because Russians are metaphysically bad people.

This message was brought to you by the Kremlin.

Ukrainians don’t get to rule over and mistreat Russians but they do get to defend themselves from an unjustified war and literally many thousands of war crimes committed against civilians .

Your distorted take exemplifies why Europe and US need the NATO defense alliance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

Ah yes Kosovo, where we supported a break-away province where people had gotten stuck on the wrong side of a post-Cold War border and wanted to be free from an oppressive government.

Which is completely different from Ukraine, because uhmm, Russia is bad I guess. Ukrainians get to rule over and mistreat Russians because Russians are metaphysically bad people.

Again, characterizing Kosovars as "people stuck on the wrong side of a post-Cold War border" is such historical ignorance.

Kosovo had been an autonomous province of Yugoslavia since at least the early 60s, with the exact legal framework of that autonomy shifting but definitely enshrined by 1971. (After large scale Kosovar Albanian demonstrations for increased Albanian rights to education, language and self-governance) Kosovars did not declare independence from Serbia until 2008. This was 8 years after 1.5 million-ish Kosovars were driven out of Kosovo en masse by Milosevic in the last of many genocidal wars perpetrated by Milosevic to hold his power.

Serbia disputed the declaration of independence before the International Court of Justice, which ruled that the declaration of independence did not violate international law.

Historically over time, Ukraine has been part of, roughly, Poland, Austria or Russia. The portion of Ukraine absorbed by the Soviet Union suffered a mass famine (the Holodomor) in the 1930s deliberately created by Stalin. Millions of Ukrainians died.

Within the USSR, Ukraine was always an independent republic. By the 1990s, Ukraine (along with 14 other republics) declared independence as the USSR was dissolved. Over 92% of Ukrainian voters approved independence, including over whelming majorities in areas with a high proportion of ethnic Russians and which are today occupied by Russia - Crimea (67%), Donetsk (76%), Luhansk (80%), -and Sevastopol (63%).

Now, after the initial Russian covert invasion in 2014, and the full-scale invasion in 2022, Ukrainian citizens (both ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians) under occupation by Russia have suffered torture, forced deportation, extra-judicial killings, and rape.

It is a mischaracterization of Ukraine to say they want to "rule over and mistreat Russians". Many Ukrainian citizens who are ethnically Russian live in and support Ukrainian independence and are horrified by the "Russkiy Mir" as a lived experience. Most people who were formerly "pro-Russian" (in quotes because that never meant a desire to physically be a part of Russia), after having seen Russian fighting and governance up close, now entirely reject Russia.

In fact, Kosovo and Ukraine have a lot in common. Both are areas with a long history of struggling for independence, and who have suffered brutally at the hands of their oppressor (whether it be Serbia or Russia) and whose people have clearly and consistently indicated a desire for democratic governance linked to Western (i.e. European) institutions.

Your snarky mis-characterizations and minimizations are shockingly ignorant about the real historical facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NATO is the most successful alliance in history and the bedrock of international peace and security. This is why Ukraine was chosen to be in NATO.

Those seeking to undermine NATO = Putin + MAGA

Putin = MAGA

Nope. Wrong. The majority of Republicans support Ukraine. Check your facts.

Code Pink is supporting Putin and protesting to get funding cut off to Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

Ah yes Kosovo, where we supported a break-away province where people had gotten stuck on the wrong side of a post-Cold War border and wanted to be free from an oppressive government.

Which is completely different from Ukraine, because uhmm, Russia is bad I guess. Ukrainians get to rule over and mistreat Russians because Russians are metaphysically bad people.

Any country that cannot accept the internationally recognized borders of other countries is bad. That is not a reflection over the people of Russia but the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces[b] in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

You know perfectly well what happened after 9/11 wasn't about protecting the United States. Bush wanted to invade something, and NATO made it happen and look kosher.

DP

No we don’t know that and you mischaracterized NATO’s involvement.


[b]Has NATO ever started a war? - History Stack Exchange

NATO's operations were focussed on anti-terror and enforce blockades or no-fly zones on specific nations and providing humanitarian assistance. The operations were responses to actions by other nations but not started by NATO itself therefore NATO hasn't started any wars.Mar 1, 2022
https://history.stackexchange.com › ...


What was the role of NATO in the Iraq war?

The March 2003 campaign against Iraq was conducted by a coalition of forces from different countries, some of which were NATO member countries and some were not. NATO as an organization had no role in the decision to undertake the campaign or to conduct it.May 19, 2022

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_51977.htm#:~:text=The%20March%202003%20campaign%20against,campaign%20or%20to%20conduct%20it.


From 2004 to 2011, NATO conducted a relatively small but important support operation in Iraq that consisted of training, mentoring and assisting the Iraqi security forces.May 24, 2023
https://www.nato.int › topics_166936
Topic: NATO Mission Iraq


NATO and Afghanistan

For nearly 20 years, NATO Allies and partner countries had military forces deployed to Afghanistan under a United Nations (UN) Security Council mandate. NATO Allies went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States, to ensure that the country would not again become a safe haven for international terrorists to attack NATO member countries. Over the last two decades, there have been no terrorist attacks on Allied soil from Afghanistan.

In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban signed an agreement on the withdrawal of international forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In April 2021, NATO Foreign and Defence ministers decided to withdraw all Allied troops from Afghanistan within a few months.

In summer 2021, following the collapse of the Afghan government and the Afghan National Defence and Security Forces, NATO focused on ensuring the safe departure of personnel from Allied and partner countries, and NATO-affiliated Afghans. In August 2021, more than 120,000 people were evacuated in the Allied airlift from Kabul airport as part of the coalition effort – including around 2,000 Afghans working for NATO, and their families. Many of them have already been resettled in Allied and partner countries. For several others, NATO is working with Allies to provide housing, care and support while arrangements are made for follow-on movement to Allied and partner countries. 


https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm

Does not matter. Republicans are against NATO. When republicans gain control of the house and senate or any republican wins the presidency NATO will end. Also Republicans have already said they will cut support for Taiwan, pull troop from South Korea, Israel, etc.

I just do not know why they would want to increase or maintain current defenses spending. Without the foreign deployment or mission to counter the Russians, Chinese, Iran, North Korea, etc there is little need for our current force structure. The republicans will most likely reduce US military to about 20-40k with a large part of that being reservist. It is interesting how the press never ask about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

Ah yes Kosovo, where we supported a break-away province where people had gotten stuck on the wrong side of a post-Cold War border and wanted to be free from an oppressive government.

Which is completely different from Ukraine, because uhmm, Russia is bad I guess. Ukrainians get to rule over and mistreat Russians because Russians are metaphysically bad people.

Any country that cannot accept the internationally recognized borders of other countries is bad. That is not a reflection over the people of Russia but the state.

You Ukraine people just walk into these things over and over again.

Say it with me: Taiwan, Province of China (ISO 3166)

Once again, for people not paying attention, these conflicts in Ukraine, Kosovo and Taiwan have nothing to do with high-moral principles or the like. Its just the "Great Game" hiding behind some PR. Not every American or Westerner wants to play that game, because the costs are almost always greater than the rewards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces[b] in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

You know perfectly well what happened after 9/11 wasn't about protecting the United States. Bush wanted to invade something, and NATO made it happen and look kosher.

DP

No we don’t know that and you mischaracterized NATO’s involvement.


[b]Has NATO ever started a war? - History Stack Exchange

NATO's operations were focussed on anti-terror and enforce blockades or no-fly zones on specific nations and providing humanitarian assistance. The operations were responses to actions by other nations but not started by NATO itself therefore NATO hasn't started any wars.Mar 1, 2022
https://history.stackexchange.com › ...


What was the role of NATO in the Iraq war?

The March 2003 campaign against Iraq was conducted by a coalition of forces from different countries, some of which were NATO member countries and some were not. NATO as an organization had no role in the decision to undertake the campaign or to conduct it.May 19, 2022

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_51977.htm#:~:text=The%20March%202003%20campaign%20against,campaign%20or%20to%20conduct%20it.


From 2004 to 2011, NATO conducted a relatively small but important support operation in Iraq that consisted of training, mentoring and assisting the Iraqi security forces.May 24, 2023
https://www.nato.int › topics_166936
Topic: NATO Mission Iraq


NATO and Afghanistan

For nearly 20 years, NATO Allies and partner countries had military forces deployed to Afghanistan under a United Nations (UN) Security Council mandate. NATO Allies went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States, to ensure that the country would not again become a safe haven for international terrorists to attack NATO member countries. Over the last two decades, there have been no terrorist attacks on Allied soil from Afghanistan.

In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban signed an agreement on the withdrawal of international forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In April 2021, NATO Foreign and Defence ministers decided to withdraw all Allied troops from Afghanistan within a few months.

In summer 2021, following the collapse of the Afghan government and the Afghan National Defence and Security Forces, NATO focused on ensuring the safe departure of personnel from Allied and partner countries, and NATO-affiliated Afghans. In August 2021, more than 120,000 people were evacuated in the Allied airlift from Kabul airport as part of the coalition effort – including around 2,000 Afghans working for NATO, and their families. Many of them have already been resettled in Allied and partner countries. For several others, NATO is working with Allies to provide housing, care and support while arrangements are made for follow-on movement to Allied and partner countries. 


https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm

Does not matter. Republicans are against NATO. When republicans gain control of the house and senate or any republican wins the presidency NATO will end. Also Republicans have already said they will cut support for Taiwan, pull troop from South Korea, Israel, etc.

I just do not know why they would want to increase or maintain current defenses spending. Without the foreign deployment or mission to counter the Russians, Chinese, Iran, North Korea, etc there is little need for our current force structure. The republicans will most likely reduce US military to about 20-40k with a large part of that being reservist. It is interesting how the press never ask about this.

Lol. Your chicken little routine is old. Take a deep breath and focus. This thread is about Ukraine and Russia. If you wish to talk about the PRC, Iranians, Koreans, etc please start another thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While our trolls talk about imaginings of "tapping out" Ukraine continues to advance, destroy Russian equipment, and reclaim their land from the Russian invaders.

Ignore the Russian trolls. Putin’s bloodthirsty invasion of Ukraine will never be accepted by Freedom loving people of the world. Ukraine is fighting for our values.

Slava Ukraine! Slava Biden! Slava Freedom!

Naaah. Ukraine is justly fighting to repel an invasion. NATO and European nations are quite capable of fighting for themselves, thank you very much. If it was as you said, no one would rely on Ukraine to defend them. They would do it themselves and it would be over in an instant.

You would make Neville Chamberlain proud. “Peace in our time” yes?

Do you think Putin will stop at Ukraine? Emboldened by MAGA and MAGA-adjacent allies in Europe, Putin is seeking to recreate the Russian Empire.

Ever hear of the Domino Effect?

Ukraine is the tip of the spear defending Democracy from tyranny.

Putin isn’t going to war with NATO. Stop the fear mongering.
We once used the phrase domino effect. Bit us in the ass.
Ukraine is the tip of its own spear, as it should be. They’ve done an admirable job too. But no one is trusting their security to Ukraine, otherwise we’d already be at war.
Your hyperbole is way over the top.

In point of fact, the immediate demand before attacking Ukraine was that NATO retreat from Eastern European countries and permanently block Ukraine from joining NATO. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/26/us/politics/russia-demands-us-ukraine.html

Yes this is 100% about NATO

Perhaps you should ask if NATO is actually beneficial at this point. If the whole purpose of NATO is to oppose Russia, and NATO expands to Russia's borders, then we create a recipe for conflict. NATO's existence after the end of the Cold War has been a mistake.

The worst part is that NATO is fundamentally unfit for fighting Russia. Too many decades playing in the desert and shipping off its industrial base will do that. NATO is careening towards a conflict that could end the American Empire and NATO in one collosal blunder.

NATO exists to collectively defend its members. It’s done this well. There’s no reason to question the organization because it refuses to involve itself in a war outside of its treaty requirements.

I struggle to think of an example when NATO has collectively defended its member. Not a fake threat across the ocean for its own political gains, but an actual threat to its member.

They haven't had to. That is the whole point.

Do people really not know any history? Article 5 - the mutual self-defense article of the NATO treaty has been invoked only once - after 9/11, in order to come to the mutual defense of the United States.

NATO members committed to do 8 specific things at the request of the United States - things like intelligence sharing, increasing security at US facilities on Allied territory, providing overflight clearance for terrorism operations, etc, and agreed to be ready to deploy NATO Airborne Early Warning Systems and naval forces.

More here - https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/2001/s011004b.htm

FWIW, NATO has also played a critical role in the Balkans, by providing support to the SFOR peacekeeping post-Dayton Peace Accords, and ending the war in Kosovo and providing troops for the KFOR peacekeeping mission.

Even today, as extreme nationalist Serb forces tied to Vucic (formerly a Milosevic protege and current President of Serbia) attack Kosovar police forces in northern Kosovo in an attempt to increase broader conflict, NATO has stepped in with additional British NATO forces to keep the peace.

The involvement of NATO in peacekeeping forces[b] in the Balkans was seen at the time as a kind of defense of Europe since fighting spread over time and created huge, destabilizing refugee flows into the rest of Europe.

It's unbelievable and horrifying to me that so many people seem largely unaware of the benefits of NATO. (Not to mention such factually incorrect history on the creation and evolution of NATO until today.

🤯

You know perfectly well what happened after 9/11 wasn't about protecting the United States. Bush wanted to invade something, and NATO made it happen and look kosher.

DP

No we don’t know that and you mischaracterized NATO’s involvement.


[b]Has NATO ever started a war? - History Stack Exchange

NATO's operations were focussed on anti-terror and enforce blockades or no-fly zones on specific nations and providing humanitarian assistance. The operations were responses to actions by other nations but not started by NATO itself therefore NATO hasn't started any wars.Mar 1, 2022
https://history.stackexchange.com › ...


What was the role of NATO in the Iraq war?

The March 2003 campaign against Iraq was conducted by a coalition of forces from different countries, some of which were NATO member countries and some were not. NATO as an organization had no role in the decision to undertake the campaign or to conduct it.May 19, 2022

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_51977.htm#:~:text=The%20March%202003%20campaign%20against,campaign%20or%20to%20conduct%20it.


From 2004 to 2011, NATO conducted a relatively small but important support operation in Iraq that consisted of training, mentoring and assisting the Iraqi security forces.May 24, 2023
https://www.nato.int › topics_166936
Topic: NATO Mission Iraq


NATO and Afghanistan

For nearly 20 years, NATO Allies and partner countries had military forces deployed to Afghanistan under a United Nations (UN) Security Council mandate. NATO Allies went into Afghanistan after the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States, to ensure that the country would not again become a safe haven for international terrorists to attack NATO member countries. Over the last two decades, there have been no terrorist attacks on Allied soil from Afghanistan.

In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban signed an agreement on the withdrawal of international forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In April 2021, NATO Foreign and Defence ministers decided to withdraw all Allied troops from Afghanistan within a few months.

In summer 2021, following the collapse of the Afghan government and the Afghan National Defence and Security Forces, NATO focused on ensuring the safe departure of personnel from Allied and partner countries, and NATO-affiliated Afghans. In August 2021, more than 120,000 people were evacuated in the Allied airlift from Kabul airport as part of the coalition effort – including around 2,000 Afghans working for NATO, and their families. Many of them have already been resettled in Allied and partner countries. For several others, NATO is working with Allies to provide housing, care and support while arrangements are made for follow-on movement to Allied and partner countries. 


https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_8189.htm

Does not matter. Republicans are against NATO. When republicans gain control of the house and senate or any republican wins the presidency NATO will end. Also Republicans have already said they will cut support for Taiwan, pull troop from South Korea, Israel, etc.

I just do not know why they would want to increase or maintain current defenses spending. Without the foreign deployment or mission to counter the Russians, Chinese, Iran, North Korea, etc there is little need for our current force structure. The republicans will most likely reduce US military to about 20-40k with a large part of that being reservist. It is interesting how the press never ask about this.

Lol. Your chicken little routine is old. Take a deep breath and focus. This thread is about Ukraine and Russia. If you wish to talk about the PRC, Iranians, Koreans, etc please start another thread.

No it is all the same issue. You people will not even talk about what happens when you break up NATO and let Russia roll. Some how the US will keep spending the same amount on a military which will be confined to the US? We are going to keep 170,000 US military deployed outside the US? Lol where will you deploy those troops? Not in NATO countries, not in South Korea, not in Japan.

You need to start living what your are preaching. As you keep tell us, the US has no place to police or stop Russians aggression. You sure as sh%t have no authority to police this thread or anyone else.