To you, what's the bottom of the "elite" colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is a lot like asking someone their definition of rich. It’s both a relative and absolute thing. For the average person, a NW of $1+ million may be rich, yet it is “only” the 90th percentile. The Top 1% in NW is around $10 million. Even still, it’s mostly the 600+ billionaires that grab the headlines. And, within the billionaires, there are differences. Before Musk hit it big, Bezos, Buffet, and Gates (BBG) were a separate club. In sum, perceptions of rich depend on one’s awareness and life opportunities, but there are also the cold facts that define exclusivity.

Now, apply that same logic to colleges. Each year, about 5 million kids start a four-year school. The top 1% or 99th percentile, includes 50k kids. If the average freshman class at an upper-tier school is 2000, that’s 25 schools or the Top 25. In the analogy to “what is rich,” these kids are very rich. However, the Top 0.1% of kids, or 5000, go to the Top 3 schools. Traditionally, the well-educated considered those to be HPY. But, like BBG, there’s been one extra-special club, which is Harvard. As in wealth, distinctions other than these are mostly noise.

Oh Harvard....you were doing so great with your analysis until you had to ruin it at the very end. Did they forget to teach you voting yourself "extra-special" is not " extra-special" behavior? As for the "extra-special" BBG club......none of them sent their kids to study at your " extra-special" club. Strange.

Thanks for the compliment on the analysis, but I didn’t go to Harvard. I was trying to explain the TRADITIONAL thinking about what qualifies as elite, and, for many, if they had to select ONE college that epitomizes excellence in academics across a broad range of subjects and is the beacon of American education on both the domestic AND international stage, more would choose Harvard than any other college.

No one is impressed by obama’s first kid at Harvard. It's his second kid at Michigan who is impressive. She is saying she doesn't need the H name brand to strike out on her own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is a lot like asking someone their definition of rich. It’s both a relative and absolute thing. For the average person, a NW of $1+ million may be rich, yet it is “only” the 90th percentile. The Top 1% in NW is around $10 million. Even still, it’s mostly the 600+ billionaires that grab the headlines. And, within the billionaires, there are differences. Before Musk hit it big, Bezos, Buffet, and Gates (BBG) were a separate club. In sum, perceptions of rich depend on one’s awareness and life opportunities, but there are also the cold facts that define exclusivity.

Now, apply that same logic to colleges. Each year, about 5 million kids start a four-year school. The top 1% or 99th percentile, includes 50k kids. If the average freshman class at an upper-tier school is 2000, that’s 25 schools or the Top 25. In the analogy to “what is rich,” these kids are very rich. However, the Top 0.1% of kids, or 5000, go to the Top 3 schools. Traditionally, the well-educated considered those to be HPY. But, like BBG, there’s been one extra-special club, which is Harvard. As in wealth, distinctions other than these are mostly noise.

Oh Harvard....you were doing so great with your analysis until you had to ruin it at the very end. Did they forget to teach you voting yourself "extra-special" is not " extra-special" behavior? As for the "extra-special" BBG club......none of them sent their kids to study at your " extra-special" club. Strange.

Thanks for the compliment on the analysis, but I didn’t go to Harvard. I was trying to explain the TRADITIONAL thinking about what qualifies as elite, and, for many, if they had to select ONE college that epitomizes excellence in academics across a broad range of subjects and is the beacon of American education on both the domestic AND international stage, more would choose Harvard than any other college.

No one is impressed by obama’s first kid at Harvard. It's his second kid at Michigan who is impressive. She is saying she doesn't need the H name brand to strike out on her own.

The Obama girls could do nothing and still be successful. They are Obamas!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UChicago and Northwestern are fine colleges but they're no kid's first choice, which by definition does NOT make them elite. If you offered 12th graders the choice between: Northwestern, UChicago, Columbia or Penn. 99% would choose Penn or Columbia. Therefore, not elite -- and their flyover geography certainly doesn't help.

Bingo!

No, that's just not true. No matter how hard you try.

Lots of kids in the Midwest and the South and the West Coast would choose Northwestern or Chicago over Penn or Columbia. Not everyone wants to live in New York or Philadelphia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is a lot like asking someone their definition of rich. It’s both a relative and absolute thing. For the average person, a NW of $1+ million may be rich, yet it is “only” the 90th percentile. The Top 1% in NW is around $10 million. Even still, it’s mostly the 600+ billionaires that grab the headlines. And, within the billionaires, there are differences. Before Musk hit it big, Bezos, Buffet, and Gates (BBG) were a separate club. In sum, perceptions of rich depend on one’s awareness and life opportunities, but there are also the cold facts that define exclusivity.

Now, apply that same logic to colleges. Each year, about 5 million kids start a four-year school. The top 1% or 99th percentile, includes 50k kids. If the average freshman class at an upper-tier school is 2000, that’s 25 schools or the Top 25. In the analogy to “what is rich,” these kids are very rich. However, the Top 0.1% of kids, or 5000, go to the Top 3 schools. Traditionally, the well-educated considered those to be HPY. But, like BBG, there’s been one extra-special club, which is Harvard. As in wealth, distinctions other than these are mostly noise.

Oh Harvard....you were doing so great with your analysis until you had to ruin it at the very end. Did they forget to teach you voting yourself "extra-special" is not " extra-special" behavior? As for the "extra-special" BBG club......none of them sent their kids to study at your " extra-special" club. Strange.

Thanks for the compliment on the analysis, but I didn’t go to Harvard. I was trying to explain the TRADITIONAL thinking about what qualifies as elite, and, for many, if they had to select ONE college that epitomizes excellence in academics across a broad range of subjects and is the beacon of American education on both the domestic AND international stage, more would choose Harvard than any other college.

No one is impressed by obama’s first kid at Harvard. It's his second kid at Michigan who is impressive. She is saying she doesn't need the H name brand to strike out on her own.

Others on this thread would have you unironically believe she's an idiot, un-elite child who had to resort to attending a rust-belt flyover state country bumpkin school. LOL.

[Anonymous]

What do Obama’s kids have to do with defining elite colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d argue for schools that made in top 10 list of all of the Forbes, US News and WSJ rankings: HYPSM, Northwestern, Duke

As others have noted, admissions shenanigans no longer justify this narrow focus. If one objectively compares the quality of students (average SAT, for example) attending the Top 25 schools, there isn’t much difference. Same with admission rates. And, the differences that do exist are not meaningful.

Agree. Some colleges ranked 10-25 have higher SAT ranges and averages than some Ivies.

[Anonymous]

If you asked 12th graders where they'd like to attend college next year, no strings, no admissions gaming:

- Northwestern
- Chicago
- Duke

98 out of 100 would choose Duke.

Same question:

- Northwestern
- Chicago
- Columbia
- Penn

98 out of 100 would choose Columbia or Penn.

I don't care how many apps Chicago and NU receive, I don't care how you [they] twist the admissions data, Chicago and Northwestern are simply not top rung elite. And outside of the Rust Belt, nobody sees Chicago as some aspirational city to live in, let alone settle down in after college. It's fairly stagnant, cold as hell half the year, and the crime is through the roof.

[Anonymous]

I put Chicago and Northwestern in the same tier as Vanderbilt, Wash U, Georgetown, and Hopkins. Great colleges but certainly a notch below the most elite. We all know it. And I doubt these are alums in these threads, it reads more so like nutty parents who are irritated nobody in real life really cares their kid goes to or went to Northwestern or U. of C.

[Anonymous]

How did this thread turn into a Northwestern/UofC-obsessed thread? Are people seriously trying to convince people these are not good schools? They've been highly ranked for decades and everyone knows they're elite. I don't get this game.
— someone who is neither a grad or a parent of these schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you asked 12th graders where they'd like to attend college next year, no strings, no admissions gaming:

- Northwestern
- Chicago
- Duke

98 out of 100 would choose Duke.

Same question:

- Northwestern
- Chicago
- Columbia
- Penn

98 out of 100 would choose Columbia or Penn.

I don't care how many apps Chicago and NU receive, I don't care how you [they] twist the admissions data, Chicago and Northwestern are simply not top rung elite. And outside of the Rust Belt, nobody sees Chicago as some aspirational city to live in, let alone settle down in after college. It's fairly stagnant, cold as hell half the year, and the crime is through the roof.

DP. Drop your obsession, dude. Join the rest of us on this thread and start talking Top 25. Like most things in life, college admissions have changed over the past 30 years. Today, top college opportunities are more available to a wider variety of kids, including international ones. However, class sizes at the most elite schools have not expanded proportionately. The result? A lot of kids who would have qualified for the Top 10 thirty years ago must now go somewhere else. That change is raising the profile of colleges ranked 11-25.

[Anonymous]

Only people with kids at tier two colleges say such things or invent "Ivy Plus" and other things in a cringy attempt to wed your kid's college to the true elite. You boosters are projecting so hard. In fact, a deep applicant pool fortifies the elite. Makes them even more elite than they were. While faux elites like Chicago have doubled in size to chase tuition money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only people with kids at tier two colleges say such things or invent "Ivy Plus" and other things in a cringy attempt to wed your kid's college to the true elite. You boosters are projecting so hard. In fact, a deep applicant pool fortifies the elite. Makes them even more elite than they were. While faux elites like Chicago have doubled in size to chase tuition money.

Hahaha you sound like the typical state school grad who's super confident that their sweet Larla will get into Yale next year and are rubbing your hands in glee at the prospect. Come back in April.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only people with kids at tier two colleges say such things or invent "Ivy Plus" and other things in a cringy attempt to wed your kid's college to the true elite. You boosters are projecting so hard. In fact, a deep applicant pool fortifies the elite. Makes them even more elite than they were. While faux elites like Chicago have doubled in size to chase tuition money.

Hahaha you sound like the typical state school grad who's super confident that their sweet Larla will get into Yale next year and are rubbing your hands in glee at the prospect. Come back in April.

That, or you're the typical old person who got into an Ivy in like the 80s and would be lucky to gain entrance to somewhere like Tufts in 2021.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only people with kids at tier two colleges say such things or invent "Ivy Plus" and other things in a cringy attempt to wed your kid's college to the true elite. You boosters are projecting so hard. In fact, a deep applicant pool fortifies the elite. Makes them even more elite than they were. While faux elites like Chicago have doubled in size to chase tuition money.

Applicant pools are VERY deep at all the Top 25, thus their low admit rates. Actually, the Ivies are losing some credibility given their admissions preferences. Only time, including the 20-30+ year outcomes of alumni, will tell how this situation evolves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What list are you using?

UCLA is now #20 on US News - higher than Berkeley.

Georgetown is tied at #23 with Michigan.

WSJ ranking