To you, what's the bottom of the "elite" colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care?

+1 Are you trying to figure out whether or not you can safely brag about your child's acceptance to an "elite" college? Do you want to call out a friend who is doing so?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care?

+1 Are you trying to figure out whether or not you can safely brag about your child's acceptance to an "elite" college? Do you want to call out a friend who is doing so?

Bragging about a DC at an elite is far better than bragging about some obscure so-called "elite" program at the shithole college your DC ended up at. Or DC playing a sport at some shithole nobody college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care?

+1 Are you trying to figure out whether or not you can safely brag about your child's acceptance to an "elite" college? Do you want to call out a friend who is doing so?

Bragging about a DC at an elite is far better than bragging about some obscure so-called "elite" program at the shithole college your DC ended up at. Or DC playing a sport at some shithole nobody college.

Well, ok, but what kind of person would brag about any of those things?

[Anonymous]

Most everyone on these boards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care?

+1 Are you trying to figure out whether or not you can safely brag about your child's acceptance to an "elite" college? Do you want to call out a friend who is doing so?

Bragging about a DC at an elite is far better than bragging about some obscure so-called "elite" program at the shithole college your DC ended up at. Or DC playing a sport at some shithole nobody college.

You sound like a lovely human being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYPSM, caltech, chicago, Columbia, Williams.

That's my list.

+1 as defined by the academic cohort at the top 10% (arbitrary) of their respective classes

Pomona has more students in the top 10% of the class than Williams. There are plenty of others as well like Dartmouth and Brown. If that's your criteria, you're clearly not informed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would definitely say Notre Dame. I would also question Duke being at #8, but have an admitted bias. I wouldn't consider any of the SLAC list, although very fine colleges which I'd be fine with my DC's attending, to be "elite".

I know plenty of folks who turned down the non-HYP Ivies to go to top tier Ivies. Also, the tippy top of the SLACs do just as well if not better than many elite universities for a number of post grad outcomes. They're definitely elite.

For liberal arts colleges, only Williams and Amherst are really considered elite, IMO. The others are still great schools for sure, but not really elite.

I agree that's the common consensus here, which is a bit misinformed, because Swarthmore and Pomona are just as good. Some statistics for the four schools:

Amherst- 13% admit rate, 41% yield, 2190 median SAT, 33 median ACT, 87% in top 10% of class, 96% retention rate, 93% graduation rate, 8:1 student faculty ratio, $1,141,264 endowment per student

Williams- 15% admit rate, 45% yield, 2155 median SAT, 33 median ACT, 91% in top 10% of the class, 97% retention rate, 94% graduation rate, 7:1 student faculty ratio, $1,049,008 endowment per student

Swarthmore- 11% admit rate, 42% yield, 2125 median SAT, 32 median ACT, 91% in top 10% of class, 98% retention rate, 94% graduation rate, 7:1 student faculty ratio, $1,173,425 endowment per student

Pomona- 8% admit rate, 54% yield, 2160 median SAT, 33 median ACT, 92% in top 10% of class, 97% retention rate, 97% graduation rate, 7:1 student faculty ratio, $1,287,547 endowment per student

They look indistinguishable, don't they?

[Anonymous]

If we're ranking based on admit rates, we need to consider the number of applicants.

By that criteria, UCLA which attracts over 100,000 or so applicants and accepts, what, 10% (?) of them is more "desirable"'in some sense than Columbia which my DC attends.

[Anonymous]

Slightly above the top of the next tier schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If we're ranking based on admit rates, we need to consider the number of applicants.

By that criteria, UCLA which attracts over 100,000 or so applicants and accepts, what, 10% (?) of them is more "desirable"'in some sense than Columbia which my DC attends.

UCLA accepted 18% last year while Columbia accepted under 6%. Compared to 10-20 yrs ago, these numbers are scary for those in high school now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYPSM, caltech, chicago, Columbia, Williams.

That's my list.

+1 as defined by the academic cohort at the top 10% (arbitrary) of their respective classes

Pomona has more students in the top 10% of the class than Williams. There are plenty of others as well like Dartmouth and Brown. If that's your criteria, you're clearly not informed.

I'm referring to the top 10% of the college's own classes (not entry HS grades or SAT scores for admissions to the institutions).
My personal opinion is that the cohort at the top are strongest at the schools listed because it's a mix of our best plus the top international students. I'm not saying that there aren't brilliant students at other schools but I think there are less of them and they are not tested on a daily basis in the same way. Williams is also rated as one of the most rigorous schools in the country among universites and LACs. For their grade inflation alone I agreed with the original posters assessment. Ther are plenty of students at Pomona, Brown and Dartmouth that go on to have successful and lucrative careers but that's not the same as the academic elites who are game changers. IMO.

[Anonymous]

*deflation not inflation at Williams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYPSM, caltech, chicago, Columbia, Williams.

That's my list.

+1 as defined by the academic cohort at the top 10% (arbitrary) of their respective classes

Pomona has more students in the top 10% of the class than Williams. There are plenty of others as well like Dartmouth and Brown. If that's your criteria, you're clearly not informed.

I'm referring to the top 10% of the college's own classes (not entry HS grades or SAT scores for admissions to the institutions).
My personal opinion is that the cohort at the top are strongest at the schools listed because it's a mix of our best plus the top international students. I'm not saying that there aren't brilliant students at other schools but I think there are less of them and they are not tested on a daily basis in the same way. Williams is also rated as one of the most rigorous schools in the country among universites and LACs. For their grade inflation alone I agreed with the original posters assessment. Ther are plenty of students at Pomona, Brown and Dartmouth that go on to have successful and lucrative careers but that's not the same as the academic elites who are game changers. IMO.

I agree that HYPMS and maybe UChicago/Caltech/Columbia are in a tier of their own. I only disagree with Williams. It's really not at the HYPMS level in terms of selectivity/strength of student body, and not so much higher than Amherst/Pomona/Swarthmore/Bowdoin at this day and time. Here's the list of colleges sorted by average SAT of enrolled students: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-50-smartest-colleges-in-america-2016-10 Williams is 17th.

Also, just a side-note that HYS all have median GPAs above 3.6 and are known for having a ton of grade inflation. I've heard that less than 10% of grades given out there are C's or below. If you want to identify the most rigorous elite schools by a combination of workload and average GPA, that'd be Reed, Swarthmore, UChicago, Princeton, and Davidson. I'd include Williams too- it's definitely rigorous- but being rigorous and attracting the smartest students are two different measures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't say I've ever thought about it, OP.

Then why are you posting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would definitely say Notre Dame. I would also question Duke being at #8, but have an admitted bias. I wouldn't consider any of the SLAC list, although very fine colleges which I'd be fine with my DC's attending, to be "elite".

Nd is not elite - I've worked with way too many average nd grads.

Honestly I think UMD grads are smarter - I wouldn't be surprised if umd had a higher median sat

My post. Actually, we're in agreement as I meant to say that I consider ND in no way elite.

"Elite" is a ridiculous concept. But, for what it is worth, ND avg SAT score is higher than Amherst, Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell...