The Last of Us - HBO TV show (With game spoilers)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. If Ellie is so against not being killed to save humanity why doesn’t she just give herself up to them so they can make a cure and a martyr out of her?

They're all dead now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the Ellie character, but I did like her speech at the council meeting about how going after Abby isn't about revenge, but justice. Of course, it's also about revenge, but she made a good point.

However, I couldn't help but think about Abby's father being shot. By killing Joel, Abby was seeking justice for her father. So when does it stop?

That's the point. Who is the bad guy? It's clearly Joel. If they'd found a cure by killing one person, they could have saved thousands of people.

Am I the only person who knows it's morally wrong to kill someone without their consent (Ellie as a minor is unable to consent), even of their death would save thousands? I'm taking about killing for a cure, not killing to stop that one person (like Hitler).

Are you saying that Joel was in the right then to kill all of those people to save Ellie? He's the good guy? I think it's a gray area....

I find Ellie to be SO annoying, but I thought Bella's portrayal of her last night to be spot on.

I was responding to the pp who asked
Who is the bad guy? It's clearly Joel.

The point of the show is moral ambiguity. We are all bad guys when we feel like it's necessary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the Ellie character, but I did like her speech at the council meeting about how going after Abby isn't about revenge, but justice. Of course, it's also about revenge, but she made a good point.

However, I couldn't help but think about Abby's father being shot. By killing Joel, Abby was seeking justice for her father. So when does it stop?

That's the point. Who is the bad guy? It's clearly Joel. If they'd found a cure by killing one person, they could have saved thousands of people.

I think this is where casting matters so much. There are some people you can go either way on, but I personally find Pedro Pascal impossible to hate, so I'd never be convinced that Joel is the bad guy. Ellie, on the other hand, I couldn't care less about.

There are some other flawed characters that I have found it difficult to hate even when they do bad things (male or female) because you just fall in love with them. I'm trying to think of an actor I could have gone either way on, but here, if Joel was happy, I was happy, and screw the rest of humanity.

I am hating Kaitlyn Dever as Abby because I adore her. So while I hate what she did to Joel, obviously, I would have liked it a lot more if the actress had been someone else.

This sounds less like an issue with the casting than with your inability to see the actors playing a role, not being themselves. Kinda creepy really.

That's a weird take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

NP. She was cruel to Gail. The truth of what happened was far more heartbreaking than her thinking Eugene was trying to keep her safe as he died. It was a selfish, stupid thing of Ellie to do.

[Anonymous]

What did Ellie see on her birthday hike with Joel? Was it spores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What did Ellie see on her birthday hike with Joel? Was it spores?

Fireflies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

+1
Totally agree. And she never - not once - thanked Joel for his amazing birthday presents. The guitar he spent all that time working on? She is so selfish and rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not a fan of the Ellie character, but I did like her speech at the council meeting about how going after Abby isn't about revenge, but justice. Of course, it's also about revenge, but she made a good point.

However, I couldn't help but think about Abby's father being shot. By killing Joel, Abby was seeking justice for her father. So when does it stop?

That's the point. Who is the bad guy? It's clearly Joel. If they'd found a cure by killing one person, they could have saved thousands of people.

Am I the only person who knows it's morally wrong to kill someone without their consent (Ellie as a minor is unable to consent), even of their death would save thousands? I'm taking about killing for a cure, not killing to stop that one person (like Hitler).

Are you saying that Joel was in the right then to kill all of those people to save Ellie? He's the good guy? I think it's a gray area....

I find Ellie to be SO annoying, but I thought Bella's portrayal of her last night to be spot on.

DP. Joel is absolutely not the bad guy. He's kind and compassionate and loyal. Frankly, I don't care that he killed all those people - who were going to kill Ellie, no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

Her actions were cruel. Gail DGAF about her motivations.

Cruelty requires motivation to harm. Gail got hurt, the action was damaging, but it wasn't designed to be cruel to Gail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so glad Pedro Pascal came back! But episode six was so boring. Besides his great acting chops. Bella Ramsey is such an awkward, affected actor. I'm done with this show

"awkward, affected" describes a teen, which the character is, so maybe you're just done teens?

I'm done with the Bella hate from a bunch of alleged adults. Y'all suck as people.

DP. The character of Ellie as played by Bella Ramsey is awful. And we're allowed to say as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

NP. She was cruel to Gail. The truth of what happened was far more heartbreaking than her thinking Eugene was trying to keep her safe as he died. It was a selfish, stupid thing of Ellie to do.

Selfish, maybe, as she was using it as a dig at Joel. But she had no intention of being cruel to Gail, and cruelty requires motive. Did it suck for Gail? Absolutely. But that wasn't why Ellie did it. Gail's feelings were collateral damage in her fight with Joel.

I'll give you selfish. She wasn't thinking about how it would impact Gail. But since she wasn't thinking about how it would impact Gail, it isn't cruel toward her. Shite for her? Yes. But not cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

I'm not the PP, but I think it's fair to say YOU keep coming here to post about how great the Ellie character is. And you post about it here, at length, after every episode. Some of us think she's a rude brat with zero graces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. If Ellie is so against not being killed to save humanity why doesn’t she just give herself up to them so they can make a cure and a martyr out of her?

I've wondered the same and have a feeing she will do that while in Seattle. I hope she does so she'll be gone from this show.

[Anonymous]

*feeling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, it’s official. I can’t stand Ellie. She is the most sanctimonious ahole. We see in this episode what a tremendous father figure Joel was to her - yet when he tells her he saved her because he loves her, she says she can’t forgive him for that (not letting them kill her to develop a vaccine). What a tool. She owes everything to Joel. She didn’t deserve him.

Yeah, hated her this episode. The way she was so cruel to Gail. Eating cake like an animal. Just wanted to punch her smug face. What an insufferable character

Be real: you've hated her the whole show (and posted about it here, at length, after every episode).

She wasn't "cruel to Gail". She was cruel to Joel, refusing to keep his "little secret" because it made her realize he'd also lied to her about what happened with the fireflies. It's a time-honored teen tradition, breaking away from your allegiance to your authority figure/parent. It's just that, in this setting, the weight of it, the opportunity for it to be catastrophic instead of just dramatic, is so much greater. But she wasn't doing it to hurt Gail. She wasn't doing it for/against Gail at all. She didn't seem to think what it would mean for Gail. She did it to @ Joel, publicly, because she'd figured out he'd lied about keeping her alive.

NP. She was cruel to Gail. The truth of what happened was far more heartbreaking than her thinking Eugene was trying to keep her safe as he died. It was a selfish, stupid thing of Ellie to do.

+100
It was an awful thing for Ellie to do.